Atheists....

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Originally Posted by sir

being on the right side / being on the wrong side ...jeeeeezuz krist!!!!!!!

think! think! think!!!!!!!!!!

for ****'s sake!!! "god" is just a concept,undemonstrable,utterly subjective,a postulate created by human's ancestral fears,anguishes,loneliness and cultivated through terror,lie,superstition and by our species' innermost conflict itself:awareness of death!

if one is honest with oneself,one knows one comes from nowhere and soon will go back to nowhere...lucidity is the greatest humiliation the human being must endure...a great deal of it can lead to suicide or to the edge of it.

thus ,depending on our level of lucidity,our character,education,etc.,we are chosen (we never chose) by a specific religion,doctrine,philosophy,weltanschauung...ther e's no escape,even the anarchy,the atheism,the agnosticism,etc. can b included within the large meaning of "doctrine".

therefore,talking about "the right side" or "the wrong side" in such a delicate matter shows how shallow one's thinking is...
is not wrong to believe in god and is not wrong to be atheist...these are metaphysic needs based on unstable postulates either:
-the order in the universe is not necesarely a sign that some god created it.
-the unjustice and misery in the world is not enough proof against the existence of a superior entity.

even though i am more scared of the people with a firm belief...the inquisitors were 100% sure they were right and those who didn't believe in their god deserved to dye, the muslim kamikazes are 100% sure they are right and if u don't believe what they believe they have the right to kill u.
a man who doubts would never kill or give his life on behalf of an idea .

believe in god if u r confortable with that,don't question on what u believe in if u can't or don't want to,but please,respect your interlocutor's inteligence by not coming forth with sophisms or kindergarden statements in metaphisic debates.

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This is such a fascinating example of narrow mindness that I have ever seen and I do apologize for my rude behavior but you sir do not understand what faith truly is. I am intelligent and I no longer fear and how come you imply people with faith are inferior to you. Is that not a God complex your words imply that you are suffering from. I have no problem with someone being atheist but I also feel that a atheist is as smart as I am and just as happy being a atheist as I am at being a Spiritualist. I once again apologize for my rude behavior and if I misunderstood your words sir then please try to make yourself appear less hostile. By the way I did chose my faith because I do not like anyone choosing for me.

Atheists don't believe in a concept of religion and God. For them, God is only for something people cannot explain. That's the common idea of Atheists. And Using scientific explainations such as "Evolution Theory of Darvin" is more logical than saying : "My God created this, that, these, those or etc etc..."
Being born and dying is only biological events and have no divine meaning for them. People are born and die. That's all...Simple...Heaven, hell, satan etc. are something they don't believe in.

PS: I am an Atheist but i have no intention to attack the other people's opinions and beliefs. I just wanted to say my opinion about Atheism... Best Regards...

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Originally Posted by Tuana

Atheists don't believe in a concept of religion and God. For them, God is only for something people cannot explain. That's the common idea of Atheists. And Using scientific explainations such as "Evolution Theory of Darvin" is more logical than saying : "My God created this, that, these, those or etc etc..."
Being born and dying is only biological events and have no divine meaning for them. People are born and die. That's all...Simple...Heaven, hell, satan etc. are something they don't believe in.

PS: I am an Atheist but i have no intention to attack the other people's opinions and beliefs. I just wanted to say my opinion about Atheism... Best Regards...

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You showed respect and I hope that my words did not offend you also. Thanks for sharing your opinion and I hope we can hear more from you. I do apologize though for my attitude towards sir but I felt like he stepped upon my beliefs without any respect. I am a person whom is happy with her own skin and wish people would accept that about each other. We all live with something or without something but if we are truly happy then what is so wrong about that? Not a thing in my book. Loki's signature proudly states that he is atheist. I like Loki he is one of many who people brighten up this forum. But when someone comes off insulting I do act out and that is not a excuse for my behavior. For all atheist or not whom may have been offended by my last few posts I do apologize. I shall try to maintain my proper etiquette from now on.

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Originally Posted by Tuana

Atheists don't believe in a concept of religion and God. For them, God is only for something people cannot explain. That's the common idea of Atheists.

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Technically you're presuming religion has to do with god, which it doesn't. It has to do with worship, dogma, ritual, belief in a concept of great importance. Atheists can have religions, just like theists can. Atheism and theism are two spectrums of a metaphysical hierarchy. Atheists are theists are at the top, then connected to them are their respective religions which certain atheists and theists partake in, below that are the common philosophical concepts, below that political, and on and on.

Universism (an odd offshoot that sounds too much like UU), certain sects of Buddhism, Unitarian Universalist, LaVeyian Satanism, Humanism, etc are all "atheist" religions. They hold no belief in gods and still follow a dogma of a sort to make their lives better suited to hold meaning for them. Some of these religions include theists as well, but generally speaking they don't require deities to be believed in.

Just thought you might like to know.

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Originally Posted by sir

if one is honest with oneself,one knows one comes from nowhere and soon will go back to nowhere...lucidity is the greatest humiliation the human being must endure...a great deal of it can lead to suicide or to the edge of it.

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Wow, this just sums up so perfectly my theory about life... I think that the only people who can be happy are those who haven't seen the truth, that is the meaningless of life and many other things... And when, 6 years ago, I found out all this, my lucidity was really taking me down and down...

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Originally Posted by sir

even though i am more scared of the people with a firm belief...the inquisitors were 100% sure they were right and those who didn't believe in their god deserved to dye, the muslim kamikazes are 100% sure they are right and if u don't believe what they believe they have the right to kill u.
a man who doubts would never kill or give his life on behalf of an idea .

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I actually agree on this... I don't know if the muslim kamikazes are following religious ideas or just political ideas, but they are way too convinced about them... And many people who believe in a god just try to convince the others... I think doubting can be healthy at times...

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Originally Posted by Lilac R

Koa said:

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I just prefer to have my pessimist nihilist ideas, because they are mine and came from my experience, rather than pretend to have faith and spend one hour every week in the church wondering why I'm there.



I agree on and respect this.but at the same time i just wonder if one might undergo any feeling of "lack" or "incompleteness" towards one's own life(it does happen when one is a believer too but mayb in a different sense(?!))That friend told me more than once that he feels his life is wasted, being pointless..and this hurts a lot n it even sometimes makes one not very productive..does this apply to all nonbelievers?or it's just a trait?

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That's what I was trying to say... I do feel like that, all the time... useless - but that's not because I think that life has no meaning...well if I also think about it it does add to it, but with what I said and you quoted I wanted to say this... that I dont fee like I lack something cos I have no faith, because I feel that what I think is ok, it's right for me to think that... I can't really explain maybe but I dont feel poorer...

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Originally Posted by Ancestor

I do not feel you sound arrogant to me you sound like you are a happy person who just happens to not believe in a higher being

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Oh then I should sound more depressed... ;) I'm not happy, I don't think happiness really exists, I prefer to call it 'joy' cos I think it can't last long...
Ok, lately I don't feel depressed most of them, I just feel ok and enjoy some things... so if happiness is just the lack of pain, then maybe I'm generally happy these days.

Does life have meaning only when one gives it meaning? By telling ourselves that life is not going to get any better we make it come true ourselves? I can tell myself that my life is going nowhere and in the end I turn out to be right. Dwelling on anything good or bad does not help just get up and do it. Make your life have meaning through any number of things. I won't be go back into my darken world where I did not care about anyone especially myself. Then it would truly be a empty lonly and pathetic life which would be no ones fault but my own. I have only seen a few people here who break to stereotype mold of atheists. I do not know about you but I am tired of people stereotyping and placing me in bounderies. Bounderies bound me in one place for far too long in my life and would rather live life to the fullist no matter what. You make your life what it is instead just take as it comes. I may not know my purpose but who is to say I am not living today. I took care of my dying Grandfather and I was there when he took his last breath. It made me proud to be there for that because he always smiled every day of his life which brightened mine. His own Mother bragged about how many times she tried to bring on a abortion while she carried him. She threw herself downs stairs to have a miscarry but he survived to be born and his presence in the world was brighter for it at least to me. If we humans were meant to live in a world of nothingness then we would not have people whom we love with all our being. :)

Just because the world has no purpose and our lives no ultimate meaning doesn't mean we cannot continue to live with our own sense of purpose. Nothingness awaits us in death, which is why we enjoy or experience life as best we can while we're here. For me, life is neither good nor bad, it just is. It's better than death so I do not dwell on it. I focus on the bad and the good in any case, because I can't avoid it, but don't expect anything grand from either.

Life has a purpose: To live. If you add anything else to it, you're stretching it for more than it can be, personally speaking.

Why cannot life have both purpose and nothingness? Why do we think so one dimential when the world is not? Otherwise why have life at all if there is no purpose, no meaning, and nothing awaits us after death? Life is never just one single thing I have had patches of nothingness along patches filled with purpose. I do not think a few words can truly describe life but that life is a ongoing learning process and I for one will enjoy as much as I can.

I didn't say we can't have both. I said life after death is nothingness and life as it is has no ultimate purpose, but its purpose is decided by those living it. Why live when nothing awaits you anyway? Because it beats being dead. You got one shot at this world, so use it however you want. Be happy, be sad, be whatever. Have a purpose or don't, it might help you it might not. Life is just here to be lived, make it what you want, but it won't matter in the long run from a individual aspect.

I did not mean to imply that you did not say we could not have both. I do believe that only our physical bodies die and that our spirit lives on afterwards. The nothingness that awaits when we die is a depressing thought to me at least. Plus since I am able to feel spiritual energy that does persuades me to believe that way. But each to his or her own I guess. ;)

To say with all the conviction in the world, that there is nothing on the other side, to say that there is even another side, or not, is just as fallacious as any religion. Nothing is something in virtue of it being nothing.

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Posted by Koa: I don't know if the muslim kamikazes are following religious ideas or just political ideas, but they are way too convinced about them... And many people who believe in a god just try to convince the others... I think doubting can be healthy at times...

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This reminds me of Plato alegory of cave. In a way, people who considered them selves enlightened and already found the truth, have this mental obligation to spread the words and convince them to follow the same steps. In Islam and Christianity, that obligation is obviously stated. Further, there are heavenly rewards waiting for "all out" believers. That's why death is a popular option in expressing the faith.
Sometimes I think philosophy is somewhat similiar with religious teachings and philosophers are acting like preachers, spreading the ideas of truth. The difference is we are free to doubt and, as you said Koa, that can keep us healty at times.

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Originally Posted by Satirical

To say with all the conviction in the world, that there is nothing on the other side, to say that there is even another side, or not, is just as fallacious as any religion. Nothing is something in virtue of it being nothing.

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Prove it to me and may change my point of view. Beside you make it sound so bleak and empty when for me it is not. I know there is another kind of life other than a physical one. Why limit us to one type of life?

I think we cannot prove something and there is nothing to do except arguing about religion or God :) We cannot prove it just like we cannot prove being of God. It is %50 possibility and people can believe in either of them. There is no proof. And if there is a %50 possibility, to believe or not to believe are both logical (i think) :nod:
Best Regards...

Currently, I do not hold much belief about the existence of the God(s), supernatural and whatnot. I probably will hold this concept to my death. What is much more important than disbelieving such things, is to be unwilling to serve. By this...I mean, I would not willing give my loyalty - my faith, to them. If I were to die, and find that they do indeed exist, I would not surrender my independence to them.

Why is that important? Well, I did not trust them in the first place - I would have to accept the consequences of my lack of faith. To stand by it in fact. This does not mean I hate the Gods, though I can dislike them. I more or less see them as powerful, flawed people.