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Greenburke, you say that when you use the term 'evolution' you are referring to the theory that those 5 phenomena take place "without God" however, those theories don't say anything about taking place "without God." They just propose natural explanations for natural phenomena, but they never say that God didn't set it in motion.
My question for you is, don't you believe that God and evolution could quite possibly co-exist?
Pendragon, I have a feeling that you and I are in total agreement of God and evolution -- now I see what it is you're saying.
I'm also a creationist. However, I'm a creative-evolutionist. (I just coined that term. Nice, huh?)
I know that evolution occurs. I'm quite certain that the world is more than 10,000 years old. I am also quite certain that God exists and created all of this.
There are no contradictions or inconsistancies here.
Thank you. It just occured to me, that if you can conceive a being of such power as to create all of this around us, that trying to put said being into time such as we know it is ridiculious. To such a being, time is nothing, so we have no way of saying how long this or that took. Genesis speaks of days, which we are later told are as a thousand years to God. But to the writer, a thousand years was probably unimaginable. The truth is God doesn't fit into human time. So how long did it take? I'll let the scientists try to figure that out. I still wonder about some fossil evidence, as I said, given the things that seem to never evolve, that crazy fish they thought was extinct, aligators and crocidiles, etc. And then there's that weird chimp... it's food for thought anyway. :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatIndividual
Just for clarity, Adelheid :) Loki may have :D been referring toQuote:
Originally Posted by Adelheid
Well, nothing round has corners, does it?Quote:
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Perhaps this is only metaphorical??Quote:
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH:
But how about this:
Therefore the Christian Bible implies the earth is flat.Quote:
Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)
Commentary: Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.
Well it's not really surprising, seeing as the Bible was written such a long time ago; this was the school of thought they had back then, and thus we have it preserved.
The famous line (or one of them) that got poor old Galileo into trouble. The Catholic Church only formally forgave him in 1992.Quote:
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)
Just my little bit of silver.
;)
Darcy
Quote:
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)
Flat earth? Just beacuase it's set on foundations? Just beacause it can never be moved from these foundations?
I've heard the expression for corners, that never made me think the earth was flat. Although it is a powerful expression, a daunting image. Ends of the earth, powerful expression as well. Moving along...
I like Psalms.
Quote:
Psalms 103 vs.11 and 12
"11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
"As far as the east is from the west," pretty far, immposibly far if the earth is round, beacause east and west don't meet up. South and north meet, but not east and west.
I like the Book of Job too.
Quote:
Job 26 vs.6 and 7
"6 Death is naked before God;
Destruction lies uncovered.
7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
he suspends the earth over nothing."
Wait, so the earth has foundations and it suspends over nothing!
East and West don't meet?
Sounds like a globe to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatIndividual
Either man brought death into the world (creation, fall, death),
or death brought man into the world (evolution).
Besides why would a perfect God, use such a ridiculous method when he could speak everything into being, and breath life into a pile of dirt.
Man is made in God's image, not monkeys.
...more on this when I'm less sleepy.
Sounds like your examples, are you grasping at metaphoric straws. At least she gave the "mountain top" example.
Sorry for being ambiguous, but I wasn't talking about a flat earth here, only about an "immoveable" one. And we all know the earth rotates on its axis and orbits the sun, don't we. So either God was being highly metaphorical or just plainly didn't have his science right.Quote:
Quote:
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)
Flat earth? Just beacuase it's set on foundations? Just beacause it can never be moved from these foundations?
Are you implying that God was being metaphorical again?Quote:
I've heard the expression for corners, that never made me think the earth was flat.
Darcy
Say I'm some weirdo, easy enough.
And I supperglue cats to couchs.
And I tell you in prose,
"The cat sits on the couch, it can never be moved."
You gawk at what I said,
When suddenly, from around the corner, comes a couch on wheels,
ZOOMING past us at 50 miles an hour. Sure enough, there's a cat superglued to the couch.
You say to me, "I thought you said that cat could never be moved!"
I say,
"I did, that cat can't move. But that couch sure hauls asss."
-----------------------------
So what if the eath's stuck on foundations (the earth we all live on rests on a matle and core), that doesn't mean this planet isn't hurtling through space,
suspended over nothing.
By the way the KJV words it differently.
Psalm 104:5 KJV
"Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."
Modern Hebrew
יסד־ארץ על־מכוניה
בל־תמוט עולם ועד׃
Hebrew Transliterated
104:5 YSD-'aUrTSh 'yL-MKVNYH BL-ThMVT 'yVLM V'yD.
Latin Vulgate
104:5 qui fundasti terram super basem suam non commovebitur in saeculum et in saeculum
King James Version
104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
American Standard Version
104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved for ever.
Bible in Basic English
104:5 He has made the earth strong on its bases, so that it may not be moved for ever and ever;
Darby's English Translation
104:5 He laid the earth upon its foundations: it shall not be removed for ever.
Douay Rheims Bible
104:5 Who hast founded the earth upon its own bases: it shall not be moved for ever and ever.
Noah Webster Bible
104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
World English Bible
104:5 He laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved forever.
Young's Literal Translation
104:5 He hath founded earth on its bases, It is not moved to the age and for ever.
Oh, and you must work on your prose, everyone knows that cats and couches don't mix. In fact, couches revolve around cats, the whole universe does!
Psalms 92: "He has made the CAT firm, not to be moved."
Psalms 103: "You fixed the CAT upon its foundation, not to be moved forever."
And how about in Joshua 10:12: "Then spake Joshua to Jehovah in the day when Jehovah delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, COUCH, stand thou still upon Gibeon."
Luther used to write against Galileo using this argument, I believe.
Yess, the famous cat and couch.
The earth is resting on foundations (crust, matle, core).
None of these (crust, mantle core) move around the universe by themself, but as a globe, as a whole.
So the earth does rest on a foundation, and it shall never move, be removed.
And the KJV came out in 1611, the time when your arguement would be more valid, and the NIV came out when everybody knew the earth moved. "Removed" (KJV), "moved" (NIV).
Cat's superglued to couches, yes indeed.
Those straws are getting shorter, eh?
Naw,
how bout you show me when the earth ever moved off it's foundation.
Your holding the short straw.
Sorry, but on what does the Earth stand? Around its own core, I suppose you'll say. But what about the part,Quote:
The basis on which something stands or is supported; a base.
"cannot be moved"?
That does not necessarily imply it doesn't move from its "foundations" as "God" calls it. From what I see "He" meant cannot be moved whatsoever.
Words, words, words.
Or we could say, concepts, concepts, concepts. Did the Christian god ever realise that words and concepts are not the real thing? That a book of words can never be a sampling of the divine?