Bahh, its all humbug !!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Petrarch's Love
( I am not electing myself, btw. Just moving things along...)
Printable View
Bahh, its all humbug !!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Petrarch's Love
( I am not electing myself, btw. Just moving things along...)
I take pinions to be strictly as bird's wings.
One thing I notice is that the quatrain (first four lines) of each stanza is in the subjuntive (I think it's subjuntive, somebody check my grammer) mood. They are all in either a hypothetical or very general vague time: "When..." or Whenever..." or "Should..." or Let me not see..." or "So, when...". It puts the poem in a realm of imagination rather than the here and now.
Here's how I see the idea of each stanza:
One: When alone with hateful thoughts
Two: When wandering and despondency comes to him
Three: When disppointment seizes his heart
Four: When fate befalls dear ones
Five: Unhappy love from dear ones
Six: Possible loss of naton's honor
Seven: Possible loss of libert
Eight: A goomy cloud veils heaven
The good poetry rests in the eighth stanza and I don't think I captured it's meaning with my summary. However, the first seven stanzas are all parallel statements, that is there is no progression of thought or narrative. Like in classical music, the poem is in a theme and variation structure.
The closing couplets seem to be a sort of request for blessing from the diety, "Hope". "Sweet Hope, etheral balm upon me shed / And wave thy silver pinions o'er my head."
Yes, I am resting with bird wing tips despite I could go figure. Overall, it appears it should or would be subjunctive mood, but its not consistent - he flips to indicative. Maybe this is as Patrarch pointed out, and I think an early work with some indecisiveness. I read up on Keats last night, since I did not know that much of him. He wrote this when he was 19, died at 25 from Tuberculosis, same as a brother. His work reflects this mental anguish, as I combine his ambitions and situation, the girl he could not marry, closeness of family, mother. Interesting, that he was around Shelley, a favourite of mine and another romantic. Keats involves more religious overtones (I think). The patriot stanza is interesting because of those times, God and country. It almost feels like a token effort, out of place with the rest except if this was heavy on his mind. I like what Virgil wrote, 'like in classical music'. I could not put my finger on it properly until he wrote that, and I agree. However, I disagree that there is no progression. I think it bounces back with the ryhme of 'silver pinions' in an unusual manner.
That's true. 1815 is Napoleon at Waterloo. I just looked up the eaxct date of the battle, June 18,1815. I still don't see the progression, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackyyyy
It was also the time of the Brit/Americas wars, awesome history and times, the fleet locked up with the French/spanish, not enough ships to go round. I can't sing for toffee, but I can hum(bug) it, kinda. Reminds me of a cross between a rally song and a hymn. I'll see if I can describe it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Not Keats at his romantic best. But an interesting example of the middle ground between juvenilia and his adult voice. I think I've seen this before but it must have been many years ago - its not in my selected Keats. I agree with most of what has been said here. I like Virgil's classical music comparison - my first impression was that this was in the tradition of 'lyric' poetry, ie. intended to be sung - which fits in with Virgil's view. I don't have anything else to add really - it's been pretty well summed up by you all before I got here.
Virgil--I also agree that the best poetry rests in the final stanza. That's where I started feeling like I could really see the later Keats starting to develop. Your comparison to the theme and variations is very apt, and I think also highlights both what is successful and what is problematic in this poem. I've been working on a Mozart theme and variation from his piano sonata k331 recently, so I've been thinking a fair amount about what makes a theme and variation work well. The trick is to balance what is being repeated in from the theme and what is being varied just enough to keep the listner's attention. What I've noticed is that in a very successful theme and variation like Mozart's there is a sense of some kind of progression within the repetitions. Each variation gets a little more complex in some way than the last, even while being tied to the others by the common theme. Even though you are essentially repeating what you started with in the theme, there is a sense that each successive variation is building on the last and making progress toward the conclusion.Quote:
The good poetry rests in the eighth stanza and I don't think I captured it's meaning with my summary. However, the first seven stanzas are all parallel statements, that is there is no progression of thought or narrative. Like in classical music, the poem is in a theme and variation structure.
I think this highlights what you're saying about Keats' poem seeming to lack progression. It feels like he's looking for just that sort of balance between repetition and variation that a musical composer might. Hence, his uncertainty in when to use the "silver pinions" refrain, and the slightly disjointed feeling in the shifting subjects he's addressing (I agree with Jackyyy that the patriotic sentiments feel less like something he's personally emotionally invested in, than a sort of general concern of the times). If we compare it with music, this poem sounds like a theme and variation by a composer who's laying out a set of variations which, as you say lie parallel to one another--introducing something new each time but not necessarily somthing more complex or in a more comlex style that builds upon the last-- as opposed to a theme and variations like Mozart's in which the stanzas would build upon each other while maintaining just enough of the original theme to connect them all without sounding tiresomely repetitive. Just some thoughts that came to mind.
:lol: Glad to see the humbugs keep rolling in. Now we'll have a whole bouquet of them to present Unnamable when he surfaces again.Quote:
I can hum(bug) it, kinda.
Maybe I'd best get to work thinking up some less aesthetic artsy fartsy comments and more bah humbugish remarks myself just to maintain a sense of balance ;).
You took the hum out of my whistle, that is exactly it (to me at least).Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrarch's Love
Yes, and this is exactly what happens in music, which is why I was trying to sing it in my choir boy voice (unsuccessfuly, I should add). I just blew the dust off my Mozart, to be sure.Quote:
as opposed to a theme and variations like Mozart's in which the stanzas would build upon each other while maintaining just enough of the original theme to connect them all without sounding tiresomely repetitive. Just some thoughts that came to mind.
He'll think Easter arrived late around here, and lots of chocolate to melt over.Quote:
:lol: Glad to see the humbugs keep rolling in. Now we'll have a whole bouquet of them to present Unnamable when he surfaces again.
Maybe I'd best get to work thinking up some less aesthetic artsy fartsy comments and more bah humbugish remarks myself just to maintain a sense of balance ;).
New inventions in the textile industry before and around 1812, wool then cotton, and 'pinions' was a common multi-use word in textiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrarch's Love
You guys make good points about theme and variation, while repetitive, still needs to progress in some fashion. I just went searching for later Keats poems that have a similar form and I think "Ode To Psyche" fits. Go and check it. We have it in the lit net data base. It's so much better because (well for many reasons) while there is no logical thought or narrative that gets progressed, the originanlity in each subsequet stanzas does make the poem feel it is heading somewhere.
"From cruel parents, or relentless fair;"
Can someone please explain this line for me; I don't quite get it. Is 'fair' a noun here? Thanks
tn2743--Yes, "fair" is a noun, as in "fair maiden." He seems to be referring to some sort of unrequited love. I suppose "cruel parents" could be getting in the way of that love, or maybe they're just cruel on general principles because parents tell nineteen year old aspiring poets they should be in medical school etc. ;) (Keats did attend Med. school for a time before he dropped that profession to dedicate himself to writing). I frankly think it's a rather akward, contrived sounding line.
Your explanation of the line was quite good, but you made me smile with the sentence I quote you. Isn't "fair" in "fair maiden" an adjective, not a noun. :nod: I know I can slip on the finer points of grammer, but that one I think I know. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Petrarch's Love
Virg.--Thanks for pointing us to "Ode to Psyche." A more developed Keats poem with pinions in it. ;) I think you're right that he's acheived there a lot of what he's working out here. For one thing, the longer, less structured stanzas allow for much more musical activity. My copy, unlike the one here on Lit. Net has the poem divided into four rather than five stanzas, with no break between "A brooklet, scarce espied:" and "'Mid hushed, cool-rooted flowers, fragrant-eyed." Not only does the four stanza version make more sense (I mean, why break at the colon?), but it also means that each of the first three stanzas begin with the vocative "O"--"O Godess!," "O latest born and loveliest vision," "O brightest!" This very subtle anaphora demonstrates a way he's found to introduce repetition or refrain into his poetry without having to be so blatant as to hit the reader over the head with silver pinions. Also, just as you say, the laudatory nature of the poem doesn't neccessarily tell a story, but he finds more to tell, and in more interesting ways from stanza to stanza so that the reader has a feeling of having moved forward in the course of the poem.
Petrarch, are you a conductor or a musician? How cool!!! I was recently given some directions into listening and understanding classical music by a conductor friend (I'm almost blind and deaf musically) - it is just as hard as understanding poetry. But I find that music and poetry are similar in many ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrarch's Love
I was surprised to see the bits about nation's honour and liberty. I thought that the first 5 stanzas are also beautiful poetry, talking about something very deeply painful in a personal way. The fifth stanza seems almost like an ending of this personal comtemplation, when he asks himself whether it is in vain to throw poetry into the air. It feels like a deep 'sign', a deep breath to finally rest his worries. But then the next two stanzas suddenly come back to describe much more abtract problems (and, as you said, something he has not invested in emotionally). They kind of broke the progression down for me. It seems like he was not sure whether he has finished 'unloading' all of his worries onto the page, not sure what bothers him. Although, it is possible that this lack of progession can be delibrate. Wha ya think? :)
:lol: You're quite right. I was unconsciously quoting where the use of "fair" as a noun seems to most frequently arise from. I've seen writers start off referring to the "fair maid" and subsequently just shortening it to "fair." So I suppose I meant it not as an example of how the word is used as a noun, but what it is that "fair" is replacing. The "fair maiden" becomes the "fair". Thanks for keeping me on my toes. ;)Quote:
Your explanation of the line was quite good, but you made me smile with the sentence I quote you. Isn't "fair" in "fair maiden" an adjective, not a noun. I know I can slip on the finer points of grammer, but that one I think I know.