Twilight

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Originally Posted by kelby_lake

That's a bit sexist. Yes, it's a popular view, but that is not the sole purpose of every woman's life. At times the book can come across as 'You are only complete once you've got married'. At least 'New Moon' embraced the swooning melodrama and didn't try to make Bella sound like your 'average' teen girl.

And I felt like a bit of a voyeur reading it- especially Breaking Dawn.

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Oh, I didn't mean for it to be sexist. I can see how it would sound like that. I didn't mean to say that it was a fantasy for all women. Just that there are a lot of women that would be attracted by that. That's all.

Fantasy is not meant to be applied to reality alot of the time. Just because I find Edward attractive in the books, doesn't mean that in real life I would want someone sneaking into my bedroom to watch me sleep. Because in real life, that would mean, he's just a creep that will probably rape me.

And the marriage thing... why does it have to be taken as S. Meyer making a statement about marriage? What if Edward was just supposed to be a hopeless romantic who wanted to get married? I've seen quite a few kids that wanted to get married to the boyfriends/girlfriends right after high school, and did, too. I don't agree with their decisions, but it doesn't stop the fact that its their personal decisions and wants. The same with Bella and Edward. Plus, Edward was supposedly from an era that valued people getting married young and before they had sex. So, that should be kept in mind as well.

Now, I think Twilight is a crappy teen read, but I did enjoy the series. (Well, not Breaking Dawn) But I feel that people just try to pull it apart when it wasn't meant to be seen that deeply or in that light.

What if Bella was a super tomboy and Edward didn't want to get married before getting it on? That's not every woman's fantasy, its not what every woman wants in their life. But, would you still make an argument against it? Or would you just accept that thats the way the characters were written? That it's just a book. Not every book is supposed to make a statement. Not every book is supposed define every woman's fantasy. It's really just one woman's fantasy, the author's.


Sorry if I ranted, and keep in mind none of that was said in anger. Just saying what I think on the subject.

So, I have borrowed a copy of Twilight and will be reading it next week sometime.

Should I expect sudden hair loss, outbreak of spots accompanied with temporary hearing/visual loss?

Will I grow horns and a tail?

Just kidding! I have already got those, of course.

Sorry I'm so late. I just think Twilight reinforces the "traditional" view of the "weak" female archetype and the "strong" man who takes care of her. Keep in mind that this is aimed at teen and preteen girls who might not have so much experience of the world and not know anything else, would it not influence them to believe this is their role in a relationship and the world as females?

At early ages girls are looking for role models, people to identify with, what if the identify with Bella?

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Originally Posted by Homers_child

It's really just one woman's fantasy, the author's.

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That's really the core of the whole book. I feel voyeuristic reading it. The woman has not heard of distance.

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Originally Posted by Bakiryu

Sorry I'm so late. I just think Twilight reinforces the "traditional" view of the "weak" female archetype and the "strong" man who takes care of her. Keep in mind that this is aimed at teen and preteen girls who might not have so much experience of the world and not know anything else, would it not influence them to believe this is their role in a relationship and the world as females?

At early ages girls are looking for role models, people to identify with, what if the identify with Bella?

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At first Bella is of course physically much weaker than the vampires (as any human would be), but (SPOILER ALERT!)





she always has her own will and in the last book she's actually the one protecting others.





And as far as role models go, I think those girls could do a lot worse than to identify with Bella :p

The series can be read when you seriously want to kill time!;)

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

So, I have borrowed a copy of Twilight and will be reading it next week sometime.

Should I expect sudden hair loss, outbreak of spots accompanied with temporary hearing/visual loss?

Will I grow horns and a tail?

Just kidding! I have already got those, of course.

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Oh, Sher, reading it such a waste of time. Take my advice and borrow the audio one. Narrating is ok. Quite interesting story (starting with New Moon, not the Twilight itself), but awfully poor writing. Cheesy love talks are the hardest. I skipped most of them.

And it's more like a fairy tale than a horror story. :yawnb:

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Originally Posted by Annamariah

At first Bella is of course physically much weaker than the vampires (as any human would be), but (SPOILER ALERT!)





she always has her own will and in the last book she's actually the one protecting others.





And as far as role models go, I think those girls could do a lot worse than to identify with Bella :p

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True. but who IS Bella? Beyond her overpowering love for Edward and her role as a daughter, what else defines her?

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Originally Posted by Bakiryu

True. but who IS Bella? Beyond her overpowering love for Edward and her role as a daughter, what else defines her?

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Bella is Bella. She's a good person who often puts other people's needs before her own, but she can also be stubborn about certain things. She loves books and likes cooking and has a sense of humour. She doesn't like being the centre of attention and isn't very interested about clothes and make-up.

What else should there be? I don't think there's anything special to define me either. I'm just a lonely girl with an awful skin who studies translation and that's basically it.

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Originally Posted by Annamariah

Bella is Bella. She's a good person who often puts other people's needs before her own, but she can also be stubborn about certain things. She loves books and likes cooking and has a sense of humour. She doesn't like being the centre of attention and isn't very interested about clothes and make-up.

What else should there be? I don't think there's anything special to define me either. I'm just a lonely girl with an awful skin who studies translation and that's basically it.

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I dunno - you seem to be far more complex than "just a lonely girl..." but that isn't the point - in terms of the fantastical, and role models, if we consider Bella as an "idealized" female, in the sense that we would want girls to emulate her, it says a lot of things.

For instance, from your description, it kind of implies she is more background than anything else - she doesn't seem to have a desire to be "present" - she is ultimately, an observer, from what I gather, than a partaker, until, as someone above mentioned, in the fourth book, where she becomes a mother figure, rather than a damsel in distress.

Ultimately, compared with Alanna from Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness, or Jaele from Caitlin Sweet's A Telling of Stars, or even popular icons, like Sailor Moon, who is both an abnoxious brat, yet at the same time ennobled by the fact that she remains true to herself, and her friends, and does the right thing to save the day, or Xena Warrior Princess, who ultimately takes the front line, and is assertive - or perhaps something like Leslie Burke from Bridge to Terabithia, who acts as a very strong character - next to those, ultimately, I feel as if Twilight kind of lacks.


Even a romantic icon like Elizabeth Bennett - the witty, assertive, ironic type, or Tatiana from Eugene Onegin - someone who is both emotionally sensible, yet at the same time, remains true to what she believes in and herself, seem to me to be far stronger "role model" characters, in that they allow a sort of assertive admiration - we don't, for instance, laugh when Tatiana sends Eugene the love letter - we feel sorry for her, because we understand that she was true to her feelings - with Bella though, ultimately, I think the role of the female is sideswiped.

It's similar across the board pretty much in much literature - ultimately, the assertive, strong female characters seem, in popular fiction, to be sidelined. The character of the "whore" is ultimately rejected, and the character of the "virgin" secures herself a nice marriage to an agreeably rich, assertive, sexuallized male - the female then is ultimately pushed toward the house, domesticated, and unseen outside the frame of the male, who acts as a sort of savior/hero role by choosing her over the outspoken, assertive "whore".



Why is this? ultimately the texts just reinforce a kind of patriarchy - that's why, I think, Tamora Pierce is such a good author for the Young Adult bracket - she certainly realizes the potential of the fantastical as a means of empowerment - by providing a female who is not portrayed as a "whore", yet isn't submissive or suppressed, she is able to create a female role model outside of the role of "damsel in distress" - something in which I think Twilight is unable to do.

Like I have said before, the 90s seems to have been a decade of change within the lower age brackets, featuring, in popular culture at any rate, a new sort of heroine who is empowering - I think, with the emergence of various strands of thought in American culture, such steps forward are rebounding - I can't help but feel Bella as hero is a bit digressive.

It is one thing to be shy, or feel unnoticed, or not beautiful, and to associate with a character, but to repress the self, and then call that the makings of a role model to me seems ridiculous. Literature shouldn't tell you that feeling alone is what is expected of one, and being ignored is what femininity is, and not being in the centre of attention is preferable - it should inspire, at least in this age bracket, some sort of realization that, either one is special, and people need not feel saddened by such things, as, ultimately, they are perfectly fine people, or, on the other hand, or perhaps in addition, should also empower, and show that such repression is unhealthy.

It's not about being a good or bad person - ultimately a heroic figure will be a good figure - but even someone who has perhaps a bit of a cruel side, or fits the character of "the *****", is preferable to portraying the heroic as the ignored, or suppressed. People are more round than that - to use Sailor Moon as an example (alright, you caught me, it's perhaps the best example I can think of, since the show resonates so well in memory after all these years (about 14 or so)) - though Sailor Moon, as a character, is both nosy, obnoxious, lazy, indulgent, and childish, ultimately, in terms of heroism, she justifies herself as far more powerful a role model than a smart, quiet, unspoken, unspoken for, repressed, shadowed person - the merits of being able to, in the end, realize what is right and wrong, and to act accordingly, in fitting with morals, and in approaching themes, such as friendship, love, and truth (to the self), the makers of that show (or at least the dubbers) managed to create a much more powerful image, and a much more respectable character than Twilight's Bella, who, ultimately, fits in with a pretty patriarchal pattern.

:nod: I sometimes feel as if I am falling into the abyss of the authors complex desires: to shake off the shackles of her faith, her morals, her children and indulge herself with a beautiful partner that she has total control over, a child that she has a true connection with, power without the consequences.:brow:

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Originally Posted by Annamariah

Bella is Bella. She's a good person who often puts other people's needs before her own, but she can also be stubborn about certain things. She loves books and likes cooking and has a sense of humour. She doesn't like being the centre of attention and isn't very interested about clothes and make-up.

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Those are all really banal traits that every female YA protagonist has. They're a tiny bit of a misfit but that's because they are so good to their family (she moved out so her mother and new hubby could...bond...).

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Originally Posted by Annamariah

Bella is Bella. She's a good person who often puts other people's needs before her own, but she can also be stubborn about certain things. She loves books and likes cooking and has a sense of humour. She doesn't like being the centre of attention and isn't very interested about clothes and make-up.

What else should there be? I don't think there's anything special to define me either. I'm just a lonely girl with an awful skin who studies translation and that's basically it.

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You are quite lovely, my dear, and bad skin clears; And now, you are here with us, so you don't have to be lonely. There are also alot of chat sites for people interested in languages. Bella does seem very fortunate, doesn't she, to have someone who loves her as much as she loves him; and yet, that love has almost killed her several times.
As far as the book, I didn't like the part (what was it, in Eclipse) where she finds out that her great power is her resistance to things. She envelopes all of her family and friends and saves them from the ancient vampires. I liked Bella simple, and she just became stronger and more significant than her husband and all of his family members and friends.
In a normal relationship, that could destroy the balance of the husband/wife child relationship.

Must... read... Twilight...

All this talk is making me want to read it even more!

As much as I love vampire stories, I have never read the Twilight series.