And down right rude I might add.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanislaw
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And down right rude I might add.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanislaw
While trying to remain relatively unbiased to a humane limit, I think it essential to note that the human embryo first begins, particularly in the first trimester and early second trimester, with a tail-like appearance from what form as later the lumbar region, sacrum, and coccyx. Of course its development relies much on intake of folic acid, the spine and tail-like appearance elongate in slower proportions to the rest of the fetal figure in late second trimester and third trimester, reducing the tail.Quote:
Originally Posted by okmit
Not that I meant to correct you, okmit, I think this a very important similarity that, perhaps, B-Mental aimed.
well, there is only so many ways a ball of cells can be thrown together, we are all organisms shaped by earth, so why not share similr characteristics (fro ye evolusionists out there)
and well, there is only so many ways a ball of cells can be thrown together... ever paint a fence, the procedure is pretty much the same, just the fini9shed product is different. (for all you creationists out there)
There is no link between the 'apeman' and the humans we see today.
Even scientists who expouse evolution say so. The Homo Erectus and upward are (what scientists all agree) true humans, there has not been found a link for apeman. Both creationists and evolutionist believes that the 'ape man' was either an extinct ape or extinct human.
In the intrests of peace on this thread, I would like to point out that calling each other "religious fanatics", "scientific fanatics", and "idiots" is doing nothing to further either cause. The question is which belief does one choose to go with, and can they validate that belief in any way. What we have here is two groups of people who absolutely refuse to listen to anything the other has to say. It is not a discussion if you only choose to hear your own side, and your own view, and dismiss everything else without even thinking about it. I personally feel God created the world, but evolution (adaptation) has changed and shaped it. Does that me I must force everyone else to see it my way? No. Can I learn from an opposing view? Likely. Can they learn from me? If they are open-minded, likely. But fussing and fighting and name calling is getting us nowhere! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/533.gif
Thank you,but I am aware of the coccyx .However,I have a close friend that was born with webed toes an fingers but can not conclude it is because she evolved from a Duck or frog...Hmm?Platypus perhaps...just kidding Carol.Quote:
Originally Posted by mono
I think one of the most challenging things about discussing religion is the mutual understanding. The other day, a favourite debator was rounding the corner, (at my school mind you) and her being in deep argument with another bloke, i thought i would join in the fun. However, that was to be a thouroughly mind wrenching experience. I'm used to people disagreeing with me, but i've never felt, hated. At this point, this girl rounds on me, and all of a suden, i feel as if the whole last year in which myself and another mate have discussed religion with her, us being atheists, and her being a muslim, has been misguided and perhaps cruel. Naturally, and shortsightedly, my mate and me have always presumed ourselves to be right, but i was of the opinion, that I had a completely credible understanding when it came to religion. Respecting the individuals right to choose a religion, but always pointing out that i found religion ridiculous, and blindfolding to it's people, if not downright illogical.Quote:
In the intrests of peace on this thread, I would like to point out that calling each other "religious fanatics", "scientific fanatics", and "idiots" is doing nothing to further either cause. The question is which belief does one choose to go with, and can they validate that belief in any way. What we have here is two groups of people who absolutely refuse to listen to anything the other has to say. It is not a discussion if you only choose to hear your own side, and your own view, and dismiss everything else without even thinking about it. I personally feel God created the world, but evolution (adaptation) has changed and shaped it. Does that me I must force everyone else to see it my way? No. Can I learn from an opposing view? Likely. Can they learn from me? If they are open-minded, likely. But fussing and fighting and name calling is getting us nowhere!
Now, the point is, this girl gives me hell... All of a sudden, i'm confronted with everything I didn't realise i was doing, like the arrogant smirk i put on when discussing, and my lack of respect for her (which i disagree with, it's got nothing to do with religion mind you) and so forth. Apart from being shocked beyond words, and after having sincerely appologised for my previous behaviour, and then crawling under a rock to hide for all eternity, i have learned that regardless of good intentions, and the belief that one is clear with respect, how awfull to acknowledge, that perhaps, after all, one wasn't as open minded as one had always assumed... and boy... does it hurt to have that smacked in your face!
Brave New World
Hi Chava. You shouldn't have to feel hated for how you believe. If I'm talking about Jesus over here and then hating you the next second that doesn't scan in my Bible. We may disagree perhaps, but you can ask the other atheists on the forum if Pendragon ever posts any type of hate letters. Doesn't happen. I've had to swallow my own medicine before, when a lady pointed out that I was acting inappropiately and I was forced to go to someone, tell them what I had done (which was to mimic them behind their back) and apologize. That was probably the hardest thing I ever did in my life, but it was the right thing to do. Anytime you feel like a discussion, drop me a PM or a post. Take care now. Dragon out. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava
If I may say so, the problem isnt neccessarily "Evolution vs. Creationism," but its a small fringe thats growing wider, unfortunately, by certain individuals that can't understand that religion isn't science. The problem is, that certain devoutly religious individuals in politics or otherwise, are trying to find scientific validity for their unscientific beliefs, and when science, complying with the rules of science, prove them wrong, they then feel the need to "cheat" and appeal to the government that they have been ousted. I think of it like two children are arguing, one gets hurt because the other won a fight by fair means, so he cries to his mother to be proven right.
You want to believe that God created the Earth in 7 24-hour days? Fine. But let science alone.
I think the whole 7 24-hour days thing has been very confusing for many people.
I personally believe that God created the universe through longer periods of time, that 7 days is a way of putting it... the Bible is full of such imagery, metaphors and such things. Many Christians have acknowledge that.
I'm afraid I don't really understand what you mean, misanthrope. In my opinion, if anyone, atheists have appealed to the govornment: I'll use the example of the united states constitution. Did you know that whole parts of it have been cut out of it in most textbooks used in public schools?
I personally don't see a distinction between what I believe (the Bible) and what is scientifically proven today. Any attempts at "finding the truth" (contradicting the Bible) has only led to solidifying and re-confirming what was written up to 3450 years ago.
Prof. Henry Margeneau (taught physics at Yale for over 40 years, worked with A. Einstein) said: "If you ask scientists who have a mild training in science... you do get the impressiong that there is a conflict between science and religion. But if you ask really good scientists... leading scientists, the people who have made contributions which have made science grow so vastly in the last fifty years, these sientists are all religions in their beliefs."
After looking into evolution more indepth, this is what I see: The belief that God created all things requires faith. But the evolutionary theory requires more faith, since evolution runs contrary to reason, science and history... think about it....
As always, this is my personal opinion.
That's all from me today.
I dont neccessarily mean the federal gov't, but local school boards in Pennsylvania and a lot of the Southern states have had appeals to school boards by religious parents trying to "control" the teaching of evolution. The Christian fringe has, numerous times, tried to stop the acceptance of Evolution because they, quite honestly, have their heads buried deepest in the sand are quite uncapable of thinking in reasonable terms. They see scientific thought as their enemy, calling athiests like myself and scientists "God-hating liberals." You see, these people use the idea of God not as a loving and compassionate figure, but as a hateful bigot whose purpose is for the manipulation of any bigoted theologian. The "most devout Christians," it seems, refuse to acknowledge Jesus' altruistic teachings, and fall back onto the explicitly hateful OT God that mirrors their hate. They use God solly as a weapon against anyone they disagree with, damning them to Hell. The God of the Christian Right (Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, Jimmy Swaggart, Harriet Meirs, Hitler would be one if he were alive, his 3rd Reich speech about "Positive Christianity," etc), is deeply hateful , and, for thirty years, his followers have campaigned aginst the rights of gays, countered the civil rights movement, and recently called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are particularly, wrongfully famous for the airing of Robertson's 700 Club on September 13th 2001, where they blamed gays, lesbians, bisexuals, the ACLU, among other groups for the WTC attack. Google it.
Misanthrope< quotos to you for argueing so well and so enthusiastically for reason in the face of so many God-fearing people on this site. I just want to clarify a few things: it is not so that the best Christians fear God as a hateful bigot. Yes, we do fear God. But one must read the psalms as well as Revelation to understand our fear of the Lord (look at psalm 103, its pretty short). Furthermore, i'm not in any way blaiming you for this idea: the media tends to pick out all the liberally negative things that an institution does: this includes exlpoiting the antisame-sex marraige in an anti gay way (yes amny good Christians are anti gay but not Christianity itself is anti gay- see the beatitudes), other examples to show this about the media is that the only animal rights activists we hear about are the ones who toss paint on people's coats; the only only huge institution i can think of right now that gets off easy by the media is the govornment. Maybe this i because many television stations and newspapers are run by or motord by govorments.
As far as evolution is concerned I tend to lean towards genesis. The concept of "day" was not created until the fifth day so all that time before could have been any space of time. Furthermore, All scientists know that spontanious generation does not exist. Animals simply don't pop out of no where. The same goes for bone structur on a protazoa. I don't deny that the calouses on my feet are a form of evolution, but an ameaba cannot grow a leg and crawl out of the water: the idea is simply obsurd.
I would love to learn more about the subject of evolution vs creation and i know there are some excelent texts out there. In the mean time I have no quam with the southern schools of United States banning evolution from the cerriculum. (i'm bad at spelling). The kids there would benifit from the theory, yes it is only a theory, but not much more than they would from learning historical based ideas on this scientific issue.
Once again I really admire you for standing up for what you believe in, I hope to talk to you more on such matters.
Keep up the good work
I know it's difficult not to sometimes, but there is to be _no discussion_ of current politics in these forums.
sorry about that, thanks a lot for the reminder.