A Muslim once told me a joke that I never forgot. He said that it is easy to prove that the Quram is a book of revelation simply because the prophet was an analphabet, very brutal, and he would not have been able to write it without help from Allah.
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A Muslim once told me a joke that I never forgot. He said that it is easy to prove that the Quram is a book of revelation simply because the prophet was an analphabet, very brutal, and he would not have been able to write it without help from Allah.
This doesn't really fall directly in step with this thread, but it is some interesting thought food:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8KTF...eature=related
According to our records, none of your posts has been deleted in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
R e m i n d e r
Off-topic posts will be removed without further notice.
~
Do you mean this one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
It's in the 'Why I believe in God' thread. Of which, by the way, you weren't the OP.
You're probably lucky the actual OP is so laidback.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
and.....having such views about Muhammad he still holds on to Islam? What a hypocrite that so-called Muslim he must be!!
How religions are an epidemy of hipocresy. How could it be otherwise for a religion? John the Baptist was much more direct with the saxophons. But the Arabs do have branches of Islam which adhere to this idea to postulate revelation. And they have the puton going this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
It depends how you take religion, if at all, and how you play chords on !Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
Religion is strictly two-dimensonal; a thing of the imagination. Can't avoid hipocresy. And so-called wisdom? Pure cleverness within confusion. How could God not be or exist? Impossible. It's a marvellous world, extremely hipocritical and condescending, based on acute resentment for three-dimensional occurrences. Thank goodness we were able to put it in a museum where it no longer makes history where the action is (the actual meaning of separation of church and state), and they all await for recycling in as much comfort they can take to alleviate suffering.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Who could be an atheist to the nonsense of the theist without feeling utterly useless? Who could be an agnostic to such funny setup?
funny?? Does it sound you funny that we are having a 'discourse' over here without even knowing or having seen each other?? You and I are HERE just because of a CAUSE and I can visulaize the TRUTH of YOU AND I talking to each other just because of the LITNET SIGN OR a manifestation of our mutual PRESENCE!!Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
IF this is POSSIBLE why God be lesser??
Ha! God lesser? Pleaaaaase. He's morer. Actually he's too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
hehe! trim his tail if you can!!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
:lol: I got the threads mixed up. Don't even know who the OP is in the other one. My apologies to him, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBastable
You could also say that there is no evidence to suggest that any of the imagined gods exist, or have ever existed. A man of one particular faith believes in his own god, whilst dismissing the gods of men of other faiths. But all these derive from ancient times, when mankind knew nothing about the world, or how it functioned, and it has been passed down the ages to establish organised religion. A certain god is backed up by a book, but so are others; the existence of unicorns has the same amount of evidence as a gods existence. It is just taken on faith, no matter what your religious convictions are, it is all taken on faith, which is irrational, and illogical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
The god of the bible is evil, and if he existed, it would be a dark world indeed.
Rant over. I think Katy Perry does disprove the existence of god however :D
If there isn't any Supreme Being then how come you can't have your way all the time??? What makes you strong or weak, good or evil???Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestJG
Before Galileo,Darwin embarked upon newer theories people thought Earth was Flat and animistic beliefs were common. Some people still believe in UFO's. How do you explain God if you cannot even explain UFO's , Big Foot,
(and perhaps Don Quixote)??? Why do accidents happen and all die except one?? Religion has many hidden mysteries which even science cannot unravel. If you don't understand religion and call it ''evil'' how can you understand the existence of God???
This is so entangling that one can't but suspect that the whole forum is composed of press releases from The Vatican or some other disinformation organization. But one has humor and has to honor the fellowship.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
It is not important to me what you believe or disbelieve. Because I care about all of you, I think that so long as you don't think that what you believe or disbelieve is knowledge, you will be safe.
I am amused:)Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
It may also be said this way..........
I think that so long as you don't think that what you believe or disbelieve is knowledge, you will never learn to identify relations, even of those of next of kin.
In the Hands of God
By Teresa of Avila
(1515 - 1582)
English version by Kieran Kavanaugh OCD and Otilio Rodriguez OCD
I am Yours and born of You,
What do You want of me?
Majestic Sovereign,
Unending wisdom,
Kindness pleasing to my soul;
God sublime, one Being Good,
Behold this one so vile.
Singing of her love to you:
What do You want of me?
Yours, you made me,
Yours, you saved me,
Yours, you endured me,
Yours, you called me,
Yours, you awaited me,
Yours, I did not stray.
What do You want of me?
Good Lord, what do you want of me,
What is this wretch to do?
What work is this,
This sinful slave, to do?
Look at me, Sweet Love,
Sweet Love, look at me,
What do You want of me?
In Your hand
I place my heart,
Body, life and soul,
Deep feelings and affections mine,
Spouse -- Redeemer sweet,
Myself offered now to you,
What do You want of me?
Give me death, give me life,
Health or sickness,
Honor or shame,
War or swelling peace,
Weakness or full strength,
Yes, to these I say,
What do You want of me?
Give me wealth or want,
Delight or distress,
Happiness or gloominess,
Heaven or hell,
Sweet life, sun unveiled,
To you I give all.
What do You want of me?
Give me, if You will, prayer;
Or let me know dryness,
And abundance of devotion,
Or if not, then barrenness.
In you alone, Sovereign Majesty,
I find my peace,
What do You want of me?
Give me then wisdom.
Or for love, ignorance,
Years of abundance,
Or hunger and famine.
Darkness or sunlight,
Move me here or there:
What do You want of me?
If You want me to rest,
I desire it for love;
If to labor,
I will die working:
Sweet Love say
Where, how and when.
What do You want of me?
Calvary or Tabor give me,
Desert or fruitful land;
As Job in suffering
Or John at Your breast;
Barren or fruited vine,
Whatever be Your will:
What do You want of me?
Be I Joseph chained
Or as Egypt's governor,
David pained
Or exalted high,
Jonas drowned,
Or Jonas freed:
What do You want of me?
Silent or speaking,
Fruitbearing or barren,
My wounds shown by the Law,
Rejoicing in the tender Gospel;
Sorrowing or exulting,
You alone live in me:
What do You want of me?
Yours I am, for You I was born:
What do You want of me?
And what did the chap said he wanted? She tried hard to give him everything she had. Did he asked her to buy him a cruise to the caribbean at least?
Thinking Makes It So
"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."1
William James, the father of American psychology, stated that, "the greatest discovery of my generation is that human beings can alter their lives by altering their attitude of mind [your thinking]." He also said, "If you change your mind, you can change your life."
While what William James said is true, this truth wasn't discovered by his generation. Two thousand years ago God's word pointed out the importance of right thinking.
It is true; we can change our lives by changing our thinking—either for good or bad. If we harbor and dwell on negative thoughts, we will act in negative ways. On the other hand, if we harbor and dwell on positive thoughts, we will act in positive ways. What we think about comes about.
As another has said, "What the mind dwells on the body acts on." Think of temptation for instance. First comes a thought and, if we entertain it, it hooks our feelings, and the stronger we feel about it, the more we keep thinking about it, and the more we rationalize about doing it … and unless we nip that thinking in the bud, we give in to the temptation and act it out.
So as an unknown author also wisely said:
Watch your thoughts; they lead to attitudes.
Watch your attitudes; they lead to words.
Watch your words; they lead to actions.
Watch your actions; they lead to habits.
Watch your habits; they form your character.
Watch your character; it determines your destiny.
1. The quote is from 1. Philippians 4:8 (NIV).
source:ACTS
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts."
-The Dhamapada.
By the way mazHur, that quote from Phillipians is one of my all time favourite quotes. I never took it in the sense that you take it here. I always just took it as adivce on how to achieve comfort and assurance.
Good, but haven't you heard people often say, ''Hey he is not good spirit'', ''She is feeling low'', 'Oh, you hurt my soul!"". Thus all this 'spirit' business is psychological. It has to do with mind as well as heart!! 'Have heart!!'' we usually say to a depressed person, don't we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88
God to me is faith of goodness, as long as God exist, faith in goodness exists. The day its over, people in Wall Street and the corrupt politicians are going rule this country. The country would be go to the dogs.
I just realized that. I tried it and I became king of M31. The good thing about it was that when I got tired, I tried it again and I am back home to talk to you who are an honorable figment of what I think.:wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88
This may not have anything to do with my disbelief in God, but one of the reasons I am not a Christian is that I cannot make sense of the trinity. If its the father AND the son, then how is it not two gods and therefore a kind of polytheism?
Wow! You picked up the basic difference between two greatest religions of the world, ie Christianity and Islam!Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88
A nice sermon for those who cannot love!
Living, Loving and Learning Part I
"The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth."the Bible
A popular song from back in the '60s or '70s by Burt Bacharach was: "What the world needs now is love, sweet love / It's the only thing that there's just too little of / What the world needs now is love, sweet love / No not just for some but for everyone."
Only those embittered and disillusioned by failure in love would disagree with those words. We were created for loving relationship, without which we limp along in the shadows of life eking out a lonely existence. And even while living with others such people may live together alone apart—and die a little every day.
It may not be most desirable, but we can live without romantic relationships, but we cannot live healthily nor can we get our love needs met without being in at least one—and hopefully—several healthy relationships.
Furthermore, we can only love and be loved to the degree that we are known. As long as I hide behind a false mask, no matter how attractive and likable that mask may be, I will never feel loved, because my mask is not me. That's the person I'm pretending to be. Only real people find real love. What is more, only real people can experience a real relationship with God. I simply cannot feel close to God or anybody else as long as I hide behind a false mask.
Moreover, as Sydney Jourard wrote some years ago in his book, The Transparent Self, "Every maladjusted person is someone who has not made himself known to another human being and in consequence he does not know himself. Nor can he be himself. More than that, he struggles actively to avoid becoming known by another human being. He works ceaselessly at it day and night. And it is work!"
So to be healthy physically, emotionally and spiritually—and to find loving relationships—we need to come out of hiding and be real.''
source: ACT
I am tired of this idea of Godliness. I do not know what to say and not to say and what to believe or not to believe. I am torn between belief and disbelief and in fact everybody is a believer to some extent particularly when he has a thousand questions and not a single convincing answer and maybe God could be the last answer every skeptic arrives at.
Likewise everyone is a disbeliever too because the source of our belief in God is religious books and the teachings of our elders.
I have read plenty of religious books and some are trashy. No religious books are without fallacies or myths and it is a matter of degrees and Christianity and Hinduisms have so many religious texts that have no logic and are baseless. The rest of religions too have trashy things.
People become foolishly argue for their particular faith and they are in their babyhood indoctrinated into a particular credo and they cannot uproot their doctrinal faiths no matter how much they are well read and they have no questioning mind since they are hooked to their faiths.
Where is there God? It is in their thought. Where is their thought? It is in their memory and all your memories are things of the past, dried up and dead. Therefore your memory is your God.
If you are born to a religious community and you get hooked up with them and you cannot break this chain of faith and you will die as a blind follower.
You live with an illusion and die with this. This does not accord with truth.
You could spend your life talking about truth. There occurs no truth. There occur and infinity of truths and an infinity of lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by osho
My friend you appears to be asking the fundamental question: "How can there be God if there is suffering?".First let us realize something: a) there are no rules saying God must always protect mankind from suffering b) what does not kill me make me stronger. We realize then the assumption that a God must be there to always protect us and keep us from harm is a very human assumption. We realize it's a justification for the lack of belief in God or in a benevolent being. We must also realize that many time struggles and sufferings shape and mold man and his characters, as Cardinal François-Xavier Nguyễn Văn Thuận once said "You can't become a saint unless you suffer".
Secondly we must also realize that many of the multiple sufferings you've listed (including many natural catastrophes and Katy Perry) are man made. You realize that AIDS, diseases, poverty, hunger... are either caused directly by us or indirectly by our negligence. Our apathy for humanity, for the sufferings, our selfishness and self-centerness causes these sufferings. Like an Islamic scholar once said: "Why should God intervene something that human can do themselves?" This question about God's benevolence, or about God seeming negligence for humanity, eventually must lead us to question ourselves, our behaviors, our apathy.
If it is definite and objective that there is no truth, then lack of truth is the truth, thus occurs a paradoxQuote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
Another presumption that a believer who have not fallen out of his faith or have left the faith is a blind believer. I must disagree. Especially in this society, I believe those who still believe are the most well read and the most enlightened people. Religious people are also people, they are capable of thinking and reasoning. Unfortunately they are painted nowaday as little morons who have absolutely not a single bit of common sense. They are painted as blind followers led to the slaughterhouse by wolves dressed in shepherd skin. As a believer I have longed for the day to break such stereotypes, I have longed to be recognized as a human being with reason and logic, someone who have studied philosophy. I want others to understand that I have too studied many faiths before come to the conclusion that my faith, Christianity, is the greatest faith of all.Quote:
Originally Posted by osho
Now the question back at you is what is truth? You said we as believers will be perpeptual worshippers of our memories. You said we will die in illusion and not accord with the truth. What then is truth? Is there even a truth? Is Plato right, or is it Nietzsche? Or is it like Buddhism, that truth is just an illusion? What is truth?
There is plenty of truth in the two dimensions of the imagination. But there occurs no truth in three dimensions, only infinite truths and lies. No paradox. The truth only occurs in existence and being. We see it all the time. No paradox. A vicious circle. Imagination without knowledge is like a toilet without water. Knowledge without imagination, however, is an impossibility. Paradox is coax.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCat
Pardon me, but I don't know if this is physics or is it literature? Our world is 4 d, 4 dimension, not 3. I don't know how many dimensions imagination posesses, but my guess would be beyond 2 dimensions, since imagination is infinite. Truths can't be infinite, if so then truth won't be truth. It is either a truth or a lie, lies are infinite, truth is one. Lies are circular, truth is linear. If truth only occurs in existence and being, it is then more of a reason why truth can't be infinite, since existence and being, that of man, is finite.Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
If there is no truth in the 3 dimensions, there therefore no truth in the 4 dimensions, thus no truth in our realm. If there is no truth in this finite realm, then one should speculate that there are no truths belong to the 3 dimensions that can be infinite (since no effects can be greater than its cause). The paradox lies not in reality, but in fact in your statement. Assume if there is no truth, then the lack of truth is the truth :banana:
You are not grasping what I mean. "The truth" only is and exists. It does not occur except in that. You or many other people are accustomed to deal with existence and being, now museum pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCat
I could deal with this philologically going all the way back to classical Latin. I might do it here perhaps, although I have no interest now. But the age of existentialism has been overcome by postmodernism and science.
Classical Latin would have been heavily influenced by Greek philosophy, which was mostly Platonism (unless they adhere to Stoicism, which of course are apathetic). Platonism would have advocated that truth is a distinct form, that could be compared to something like God in Christianity except it's more laid back and passive. Truth only is and exists, that is Platonism. Except in Platonism truth only is and exists and is definite and objective, there was no infinity, no circular truth. Truth to Plato and to the Western world as a whole is linear and straight forward, like the sun to earth. :banana:Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
you also said truth only occurs in existence and being, and said many others and I are accustomed to existence and being. Shouldn't we be able to understand truth instantaneously? I don't get the museum pieces statement.
This is also why I believe in God, lack of faith in God causes me intellectual head aches and more paradoxes than answers
Good response but what the heck is 'free will' for??Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
Condemnation of other religions such as Hinduism etc you remarked at is uncalled for. If you don't understand 'logarithms' you cannot condemn it as false just for the reason it is beyond your 'cognitive' capabilities or you just don't like the idea. Similarly all religions have a point in case, take it or leave it rather then puke disgust for it for personal reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by osho
I suppose many here are quite grown up and sensible folk and they do not need their parents dinning about what to do or what not to do ...in many matters including religion.
Religion is not an illusion...though it may be a reflection of the Almighty!
To " ina hadina sabeela wa imma shakirwn wa imma kaffora"
And we have given you (hadayt, mind) Whether to accept Him or reject Him.
To Recogonize Him or deny Him
i think To " ina hadina sabeela wa imma shakirwn wa imma kaffora" Surah Dahir.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
And we have given you (hadayt, mind) Whether to accept Him or reject Him.
To Recogonize Him or deny Him
my speculation is that free will allows man to either accept or deny truth, or in certain cases make one upQuote:
Originally Posted by mazHur