he gets over it. wasn't that the point? somewhere along the line he grows up?
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he gets over it. wasn't that the point? somewhere along the line he grows up?
Well, I bought him getting over that spat of whatever-his-problem-was, but he still seemed kinda...out of touch. He didn't get over the "carousel" obsession (you know, some kind of child divinity)... but then, neither did Salinger.
That's the reason behind my liking it. The book is half choked of ironies. And is fun to read too.Quote:
I read it in 10th grade and hated its guts. Although my friends and I still call each other 'sexy moronic bastards.' Holden was a hypocrite; he didn't like phonies, but he always put on a fake face for everyone. He's an example of one of those hypothetical young men who think they are Napoleons but are actually quite ordinary, to allude to Crime and Punishment.
People've been talking too much about it. Some like it, while the others don't. The votes for every book should only be 2---"Yes"&"No" and nothing can be justice. Reading a book is a personal thing. Enjoy what u like is the point. Farewell comments.
I like "The Catcher inThe Rye" much, very much...
I see what you're saying Avalive, but this is a literature forum, where people discuss literature, wether or not they like something, and why.
That's true, Iwillkiku, I see ur point too. There is actually no conflict in this.
And I've jioned this discussion. I've been listenning and ready to be talking.
*grinning at kik's avatar and trying to figure out what's on his head* looks like it might be one of those 'hannibal lecter' head things. you know, to stop you going crazy and trying to eat people. :)
The fact that the theme of teenage troubled boy has been so overplayed in recent years took away from the innovativness of the book.
*Grins back at Faye* Actually there's nothing on my head. Its somthing in the background. I think a wicker chair? Maybe? Anyways, a wicker chair isn't going to stop me from going crazy and eating people. *evil grin*Quote:
Originally posted by fayefaye
*grinning at kik's avatar and trying to figure out what's on his head* looks like it might be one of those 'hannibal lecter' head things. you know, to stop you going crazy and trying to eat people. :)
Anyways, the innovation... yeah... The angsty teenage youth bit is overdone, but I don't think that its ever been done as well as Salinger was able to do it. I've read several books with similar plots, but Catcher is by far the most moving, realistic, well-written, and all around enjoyable of the lot. And it came in the early days of teenage angst literature, so its innovation is there too if you can take yourself back 40 some odd years.
I'm taking a closer look at my avatar and I see that it does need some explination. So here it goes ONLY ONCE!!!! After this, it shall forever remain a mystery. I'm lying on a sofa in the lobby of my dorm, stomach down. My head is in my girlfriends lap, nestled in my dull yellow hoody. Its about 3:30 AM, so that explains the half stoned look on my face. In the background there is a dieing plant. But there is nothing affixed to my head in any way, shape, or form. As I crunched the immage down to fit it into a 50X50 block it sort of squashed the colors together, so thats why I have bright red blotches.
Any questions?
Too bad.
Thats all I have to say about that!
LOL I think we should start a thread just to tease kik's avatar in any and every way possible.
lol. Oh, absolutely. Hey, kik, the great thing about wicker chairs is, you can use them to knock your prey unconscious, or at least stun them, then move in for the kill. :D hehe. This is a more amusing conversation than the whole teenage angsty thing. :)
[if I ever fix my digital camera (unlikely, technology hates me) I'll stick up a funny avatar and you can have revenge]
well, I read one flew over the cuckoos nest.
I think I like it better than catcher.
Haven't read Cuckoo's Nest yet. Ooh but for my 16th b-day my mom got me tickets to the Broadway production starring Gary Sinise. Fourth row center....Sinise....hooray. So much better than Jack. Gotta read the book though -- I hate seeing a film/show and not reading the original.
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest is a classic and a well written book that flows. Start today emily.
I usually read the book before seeing it's movie counterpart too, since the movie version is invariably worse and not well portrayed.
i just saw "x" yes i know it was filmed years ago. but i'd read the book and had no desire to see the movie. well, it was so well done that i was impressed. of course, my boyfriend's sister asked me what i thought of the ending, and i replied "it's a lot different from the book," then i remembered malcolm had written the book - duh!!! :rolleyes:
and recently i saw an excellent masterpiece theatre video of moll flanders. :) :) i'm going to read the book now, because the video was great.
I try to do that too...it feels more 'fair'...Quote:
Originally posted by simon
I usually read the book before seeing it's movie counterpart too, since the movie version is invariably worse and not well portrayed.
I like everything in its original medium. books instead of movies based on books, and movies instead of books based on movies, if that makes sense.
I find the concept of books based on movies abhorrent. There is of course enough material in a book to condense and cut and generally mutilate into an interesting enough flick, but trying to do it in reverse is like stretching turkey meat. How can the amount of material fitting into 2.5 hours not be LESS valuable when diluted over 300 pages?
Okay, that's my rant :p
Does anyone know if Randall Wallace wrote Braveheart the book or Braveheart the movie first?
Does anyone want to discuss one flew over the cuckoo's nest?
A totally uneducated guess, but I assume the movie, because I read "The Scottish Chiefs" and always assumed the movie was based on that. What with the sickening number of times the author uses the phrase "braveheart."Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
Does anyone know if Randall Wallace wrote Braveheart the book or Braveheart the movie first?
'Tis a wonderful book of the hypocrisy of the teenage mind convinced it is one of the few to escape being a cretin. I loved the overused phrases. Haven't any of you had friends that said the same stupid expressions over and over until you wanted to beat them with various parts of their own recently-removed anatomy? A few years back anytime my friend's sister and her friends were around, every other word coming out was "gay". Gay this, gay that, gay you and your gay mother too. Somehow in their minds this repetition never occurred to them though.
Salinger's ability to crack into the habits, mannerisms, and all else of his characters has always impressed me, though like someone else I think I appreciated the Glass stories (like "Seymour: An Introduction") moreso than "Catcher".
And back to the topic of your average 17 year old vocabulary - where I work right now they are grading standardized writing tests for that very age group, and I assure you the lack of written eloquence is somewhat staggering. It varies greatly inside of every little area, but for the most part most students don't seem to have the desire to even try to express themselves in anything other than as few and as short words as possible. Those who do manage to want to voice themselves in say, a place such as this, aren't quite the routine; just as Holden, though he still cannot escape many teenage stereotypes, is not quite the routine... which really does make one typical.
Anyhoo, I'll have to paraphrase since it's been a few years, but "Liberate yourself from my vice-like grip." stands out in my mind.
I'm reading this book in my senior class. Along with reading it, I must answer specific questions, analytical questions. But, I don't get this one, check it out.
I read the chapter twice, the word "hat" is only mentioned ONCE, and the sexuality thing seems bogus. Am I wrong? Help me out guys.Quote:
Chapter 6: Is Holden secure sexually? Explain. By this time, Holden's red hunting hat has been mentioned repeatedly. Explain some plausible reasons for this and suggest a symbolic interpretations or two.
Also, if u want to re-red it
http://lib.ru/SELINGER/sel_engl.txt
qxdx--
Okay, I read Catcher in 10th grade, so I don't remember it in great detail. But the hat/sexuality thing does ring a bell, cause we had loooooong discussions about the symbolism of the stupid hat. It's like his security blanket, so I believe the way it went was: when the flaps are up he's feeling confident, when they're down he's uncomfortable, and when they're fastened under his chin he's really upset. I don't remember how often it was mentioned by chapter 6, but is that the chapter with Sunny the hooker? Or is it when what's-his-name, the sexy bastard roommate, is going on a date with Holden's old girlfriend? I seem to recall something about him suddenly pulling his hat down on his head at some remark about a girl, or when he's approaching a girl... so, no, he's not too confident. I don't want to get into specific situations, because I don't know how far you've gotten in the story, but basically : he needs his security blanket (hat) when he's thinking about sex, and he gets upset when a woman's "honor" is threatened.
Hope that helps.
Em*~
Yes, thanks! And dont worry about "spoiling" it for me or what ever, I could care less.
He's only a boy, he's not sexualy secure, who is at that age?
Honestly.
It's ridiculous to analyze a novel. I'm not saying anything bad toward this topic or qxdc. Really. I'm very sorry if i'm using any unpleasant words. (smile).But, for one thing Im sure about is that--the writter,himself,might not think about why he writes like that while he was writing. For some points,he didn't even notice himsely, I bet. It's natural. But,many years later, when we read it, we find troubles forourselves--Analyze! .....I don't understand. Nobody can analyze a novel. But, yes, people can talk. Share feelings and attitudes. That's good.
btw: <catcher in the rye> is my all time fav
Yeah, i think its silly. And our teacher is terrible!
"well, notice how he didn't toss the snowball? this means, he's insecure, ugly, loves nature, has sexual confusion, and the word "snow" rhymes with "no" which he says a lot, this means..."
it's like, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
snow rhymes with ho too;)
Ava, there's a difference between analysing and overanalysing. Some analysis is a good thing like the hat bit, reread it and see if Emily is wrong. Real people also have 'security blankets', thats one reason why Holden is easy to relate to. Salinger's strength is in his ability to add minute details like that to give his characters depth and make them more real. I don't think its fair to Salinger to say that he did all that on accident. But the whole snow rhyming bit is a bit out of whack. I said 'bit' way too much in this post.
Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
Ava, there's a difference between analysing and overanalysing. Some analysis is a good thing like the hat bit, reread it and see if Emily is wrong. Real people also have 'security blankets', thats one reason why Holden is easy to relate to. Salinger's strength is in his ability to add minute details like that to give his characters depth and make them more real. I don't think its fair to Salinger to say that he did all that on accident. But the whole snow rhyming bit is a bit out of whack. I said 'bit' way too much in this post.
Agree...
*quiet voice* I'm seventeen....
And I do resent these criticisms of people my age group. Just because you're young, it doesn't necessarily mean you're ignorant, illiterate and incapable of expressing yourself, even if I'm a poor example.
[edited for grammar purposes, lol. :D]
soo.... one flew over the cuckoo's nest??
True, fayefaye...but, I went to school with 950 other teenagers, and...most of 'em are. :p
OK, CUCKOO'S NEST, PEOPLE -- GO!
with my anylising or that I said 'bit' too much? :D
Just one more thing to add about teenagers, even though I'm not one anymore :(. My freshman year of College I peer-edited a paper that had "I be watching football." in it. But I sure as hell didn't write that way. Everybody's different and its perfectly logical for Holden to either sound like a stupid kid, or a poet and a prophet. Hell, I wrote a book when I was 16, and I like to think that it didn't sound like a stupid kid writing. BTW, I really did write a book. I don't talk about it much because either A) people don't believe me, B) people think I'm showing off, or C) people are awe inspired and think I'm some sort of God-creature and that's really uncomfortable. In case you fall under A, here's a link:
http://www.rhpa.org/newproducts/prod...sku=0828013381
I'd hardly have the gall to write about my own family.
i have to say, kik, that i am impressed.
if it were not for your impeccably bad taste in music and some genres of literature, i would elevate you to God status, and fall then into category C. as it is, i think that's pretty cool, and good for you.
*Smile*
I don't fall under any of those categories, but clicked on the link for the sake of it, wouldn't work. :confused:
ah, hell. this is too off-topic.
Kik, I'm most impressed by your perserverence. I can't think as well anymore cause of the meds, but I used to start writing the beginnings (or endings, or middles) of books all the time, but the longest I ever held out on one was about 5 months and 30 pages. (I guess I'm more of what you'd call an "idea woman.") I assure you, my respect continues to climb Mount Kik. :D (and I mean that in the most innuendo-free manner.)
lol. I'm tired of all this kik complementing, and not enough faye complementing. :D
Aww, Faye Faye... poor Faye Faye. :D *Much complimenting of Faye*