Greatest Culture...

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Originally Posted by hannah_arendt

We live in a self- regulating system. There are of course many situations where the impact of british culture is seen however , f.ex English has many french loans. English is one of the most popular languages but it`s not the only one.

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English dominance internationally lasted about 200 years - dominance as in being markedly the best - and even then it was not always stable. The Chinese economy throughout the Tang occupied 70% of the world Economy - China has consistently had a population larger than all of Europe put together - it still remains larger than all of the "west" put together.

In the early days of Empire, Asia was uncontrolled. The big players for the Americas were Spanish and Portuguese - at that time also linked to the Austrian throne, as Charles the 5th had major titles throughout Europe as a whole. The dutch in terms of a Merchant empire were almost a century ahead of the British, the biggest difference is they in many places weren't trying to repopulate or depopulate, but merely assert control and make money - but that is another matter.

the British have been drinking Chinese - then later Ceylon Tea - for centuries, using Porcelain just as long, and importing culture for thousands of years. China in contrast got its biggest dumping of cultural influx in 300AD or so, and has been more influential than influenced, relatively speaking. In letters, most definitely so.

In Economic terms China has been rolling ahead of the world for most of recorded history, and certainly from the Han through the Mongol invasion. England is a late player that never really solidified its grip on the world the way China did.

To make this such a cut and paste "easy" argument is to just show a lack of knowledge of any culture but one's own (Mr. Atheist being from the Common Wealth).

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Originally Posted by JBI

English dominance internationally lasted about 200 years - dominance as in being markedly the best - and even then it was not always stable. The Chinese economy throughout the Tang occupied 70% of the world Economy - China has consistently had a population larger than all of Europe put together - it still remains larger than all of the "west" put together.

In the early days of Empire, Asia was uncontrolled. The big players for the Americas were Spanish and Portuguese - at that time also linked to the Austrian throne, as Charles the 5th had major titles throughout Europe as a whole. The dutch in terms of a Merchant empire were almost a century ahead of the British, the biggest difference is they in many places weren't trying to repopulate or depopulate, but merely assert control and make money - but that is another matter.

the British have been drinking Chinese - then later Ceylon Tea - for centuries, using Porcelain just as long, and importing culture for thousands of years. China in contrast got its biggest dumping of cultural influx in 300AD or so, and has been more influential than influenced, relatively speaking. In letters, most definitely so.

In Economic terms China has been rolling ahead of the world for most of recorded history, and certainly from the Han through the Mongol invasion. England is a late player that never really solidified its grip on the world the way China did.

To make this such a cut and paste "easy" argument is to just show a lack of knowledge of any culture but one's own (Mr. Atheist being from the Common Wealth).

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70% seems a little high. Weren't India and the Abbasid Caliphate fairly prosperous during that period (600-900CE)?

Two people are culturally dominant figures today, and have been for millenia. They lived within a few hundred miles of each other. Jesus and Mohammed.

Neither was British, although Jesus and his teaching were the single most important influence on British culture at the height of its power, and Mohammed has increasing influence today.

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Originally Posted by Darcy88

. Its hard though to deny America's 20th century cultural preponderance. . In many musical genres America also led the way. France deserves mention as well, but for me its American culture followed by German.

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If we are talking 20th century popular music, I think the British are the equals of the Americans: The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Clash, The Sex Pistols, David Bowie, Radiohead, The Smiths, Pink Floyd, Joy Division, The Stone Roses...that is a pretty impressive list (actually, to be specific, they are all English). Then again, they are all unthinkable had it not been for America- the blues, jazz, rock and roll etc were born in America. It's odd that the British, who never produced any great classical composers, have been so good at pop music in the 20th century.

Culture is a tough one. If you are talking classical music then Germany; if you are talking literature then the British Isles (Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales), with France a close second; if you are talking about art generally then the French and Italians take some beating...it's impossible. Some people would say Athenian culture 2,500 years ago has never been surpassed in the intensity of its genius. Then again, what about the spiritual traditions of the East: The Bhagavad Gita, Vedanta, Yoga, Zen, Taoism etc.


The influence of English culture on the modern world has been immense. In fact, if England had never existed, the world of 2013 would be unrecognizable (the Industrial revolution, the empirical/ scientific approach to the world, modern democracy, liberalism etc). If you had to list the 10 most important and influential thinkers/ writers/ humans (disregarding mythic-religious figures like Jesus and Muhammed) who ever lived, a very strong case could be made for placing the following Englishmen on that list: John Locke, Newton, Darwin and Shakespeare. That's pretty impressive given how small England is. James Joyce, no friend of the English, thought the three greatest poets of all time were Englishmen: Shakespeare, Wordsworth and Shelley.

Right now, American culture dominates (though that doesn't mean it's the best). Pretty soon Chinese culture may dominate Asia, and eventually replace the USA as the most influential (already, lots of ambitious parents in the West are teaching their kids Cantonese etc).

I think Americans dominated popular music for the first half of the 20th century (compared to the Brits, at least). Irving Berlin, Jerome Kern, Cole Porter, the Gershwins, and Richard Rodgers were writing all those classic songs for Broadway. Jazz and the Blues were revolutionizing popular music. From 1960 on, the Brits were in the ascendency.

Russia surely rates a mention with its great 19th century novelists, and it's dominance in classical dance. Nijinski, Pavlova, Nurneyev, Barishnikov, Pliesetskaya, Marakova -- which non-Russians can compare? Maybe Fonteyn. The greatest ballets were also composed by Russians (Tchaicovsky, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, or however one spells their names), and choreographed by Russians. As with Jazz and the Blues, the U.S. chipped to the less classical scene with Bill Robinson, Astaire, and the Nicholas Brothers. What country dominated a major art form to the extent that Russia dominated ballet?

If you look at the linguistic contributions made by the Italian peninsula, at how the Roman Empire was vital to the spread of Christianity, and then at the Renaissance, I'd say Italy is the "greatest culture" of all time in the Western world.

To sum up, everything depends on the point of view we share:)

If we're speaking globally then in addition to China I think India deserves mention. Indian philosophy undoubtably influenced the ancient Greeks. To what extent I am not sure, but if its as great as I sometimes suspect then western religion and philosophy owe India a great debt. Its the land from whence Buddhism sprung. Yoga is all the rage now and that system originated in India. Much new age thought is heavily influenced by Indian sources.

Excuse me, to whom it might concern. I think it's time for LitNet to have a thread called HEALTHCARE, where doctors, nurses, nutrinional experts, assistents, internists, etc. can point out what is known in these fields and help people live well where it counts the most.

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Originally Posted by Darcy88

If we're speaking globally then in addition to China I think India deserves mention. Indian philosophy undoubtably influenced the ancient Greeks. To what extent I am not sure, but if its as great as I sometimes suspect then western religion and philosophy owe India a great debt. Its the land from whence Buddhism sprung. Yoga is all the rage now and that system originated in India. Much new age thought is heavily influenced by Indian sources.

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Good points, and the same applies to Persia, but I still think that the culture that gave us wine was even. Here's to the Georgians.

It's probably best to talk about specific places at specific times- Athens from c.500BC-350BC; England, especially London, from c. 1580s- 1690s; 18th century France; Paris from 1870-1939...etc. For example, I'd love to go to San Francisco in about 1967 or Paris in 1922 or London in 1600.

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Originally Posted by WICKES

(already, lots of ambitious parents in the West are teaching their kids Cantonese etc).

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Surely you mean Mandarin?

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Originally Posted by WICKES

It's probably best to talk about specific places at specific times- Athens from c.500BC-350BC; England, especially London, from c. 1580s- 1690s; 18th century France; Paris from 1870-1939...etc. For example, I'd love to go to San Francisco in about 1967 or Paris in 1922 or London in 1600.

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Did you see "Midnight in Paris"? That's the plot.

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Originally Posted by JBI

English dominance internationally lasted about 200 years - dominance as in being markedly the best - and even then it was not always stable. The Chinese economy throughout the Tang occupied 70% of the world Economy - China has consistently had a population larger than all of Europe put together - it still remains larger than all of the "west" put together.

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I thought my post was so obviously humourous that nobody would be silly enough to argue against it, but there you go.

You do make some nonsensical points, though.

The population is irrelevant when talking about either culture or economy, and apart from the past decade, China has never had much influence on anyone outside of their direct sphere of influence. The percentage of cultures outside of South-east Asia that embrace more than a touch of Chinese culture is close to zero. Chop suey, anyone?

Drinking tea out of porcelain hardly counts as a major cultural shift, but please do post evidence about the time when China accounted for 70% of the world economy - this I have to see.

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Originally Posted by JBI

In the early days of Empire, Asia was uncontrolled. The big players for the Americas were Spanish and Portuguese - at that time also linked to the Austrian throne, as Charles the 5th had major titles throughout Europe as a whole. The dutch in terms of a Merchant empire were almost a century ahead of the British, the biggest difference is they in many places weren't trying to repopulate or depopulate, but merely assert control and make money - but that is another matter.

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Now you're on track, Spanish culture was the obvious one, given South America alone.

You still forgot France, though, which did have just a little impact on the dominant culture today - American.

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Originally Posted by JBI

In Economic terms China has been rolling ahead of the world for most of recorded history, and certainly from the Han through the Mongol invasion. England is a late player that never really solidified its grip on the world the way China did.

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Speaking of knowledge of history, yours must indeed far outweigh mine, since mine totally lacks any knowledge of China dominating the world at any stage of history. In terms of truly dominant, worldwide cultures, you have England, Rome and not much else.

Your view of history is skewed to China for some inexplicable reason, but I'm open to evidence, so please go ahead and back up your points.

Covering the 70% of the world's economy will be an easy one for you, but when you're demonstrating China's "grip on the world" that I missed, please do include how that is possible when they never even crossed the Pacific Ocean, or even Bass Strait.

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Originally Posted by WICKES

If we are talking 20th century popular music, I think the British are the equals of the Americans: The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Clash, The Sex Pistols, David Bowie, Radiohead, The Smiths, Pink Floyd, Joy Division, The Stone Roses...that is a pretty impressive list (actually, to be specific, they are all English). Then again, they are all unthinkable had it not been for America- the blues, jazz, rock and roll etc were born in America. It's odd that the British, who never produced any great classical composers, have been so good at pop music in the 20th century.

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If you add the blues, jazz, hip-hop and "grunge" greats then I'd say America is close to equalling if not altogether surpassing Britain when it comes to 20th century music.

Even though they get a lot of hate I'd say the British band Coldplay might have the strongest case for being the greatest band in contemporary popular music.