Drugs related discussion

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

It's like a feel-good sensory type drug. The chemicals released are the same as those released when humans feel that sort of excited-love feeling. You overheat get dehydrated quickly though, I think people actually dry out to death sometimes, and you grind your teeth and clench your jaw which would explain the need for pacifiers.

Apparently the next day you feel the exact opposite, really depressed. I've never taken ecstasy, it's too... touchey-feely for me. Also, it's practically synonymous with raves, which is an atmosphere I'd rather be kicked in the head than experience.

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Pacifiers? Good grief.

So they're going into an environment that's high-energy + crowded = hot and stuffy and taking a drug that overheats and dehydrates them more rather than, say, Gatorade. And likely adding alcohol (more dehydration) on top to boot. I can see where that would lead to medical issues.

And having to chomp on pacifiers, and depressive crashing + dehydration hangover the next day, and if someone were to ask why they do it, they'd say, "It's fun."

I don't like the thought of not being in control of myself so I don't take drugs. It's enough that once in a while, for some unexplained reason I get drunk and think 'oh crap I shouldn't have done that'

I'll tell you something that you've probably never heard anyone say before and will never hear anyone say again, but, I've never tried drugs and I regret it. I don't mean heroin, cocaine, etc., I'm talking about psychedelic stuff like LSD, mushrooms, peyote or even marijuana. I'm 30 now with a full time job and responsibilities, thus too old to begin experimenting, so my window has really passed. Perhaps the ideals of them as mind expanding are BS, perhaps not. Thing is, I'll never know.

So, is there a list most of us agree on?

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

It's like a feel-good sensory type drug. The chemicals released are the same as those released when humans feel that sort of excited-love feeling. You overheat get dehydrated quickly though, I think people actually dry out to death sometimes, and you grind your teeth and clench your jaw which would explain the need for pacifiers.

Apparently the next day you feel the exact opposite, really depressed. I've never taken ecstasy, it's too... touchey-feely for me. Also, it's practically synonymous with raves, which is an atmosphere I'd rather be kicked in the head than experience.

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What you're likely thinking of are the designer pills that contain impurities. This is "ecstasy," and it's safe to call it a club drug given the energizing effects of the caffeine, meth, cocaine, ketamine and other stuff that's thrown in. The pure version of ecstasy, MDMA, doesn't necessarily lead to the negative side effects you describe (except for jaw-clenching, which pretty much always happens).

I've heard of MDMA users waking up the next day feeling the opposite of what you describe -- they feel refreshed, happier and calmer. Of course, this only applies to occasional users. As for dehydration, it is generally a consequence of over-exertion on the dance floor, not the drug itself. MDMA makes users feel impervious to heat and exhaustion; in other words, raves are probably the most dangerous place to do it. Although compared to the death rates caused by other stimulants, it's relatively safe even in a rave environment.

MDMA originated with the '80s dance club scene, but it's no longer exclusively associated with dancing and raves. It is often approached like a hallucinogen, taken in comfortable environments with close friends. It has been used to treat post-traumatic stress disorder with a fairly high success rate in just a single dosage combined with psychotherapy. So long as it's taken in moderation, and it's pure (can't stress this enough), it can be safe and psychologically useful.

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Originally Posted by metal134

I'll tell you something that you've probably never heard anyone say before and will never hear anyone say again, but, I've never tried drugs and I regret it. I don't mean heroin, cocaine, etc., I'm talking about psychedelic stuff like LSD, mushrooms, peyote or even marijuana. I'm 30 now with a full time job and responsibilities, thus too old to begin experimenting, so my window has really passed. Perhaps the ideals of them as mind expanding are BS, perhaps not. Thing is, I'll never know.

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It may give the illusion of mind expansion (if you're lucky), but all it is is mind alteration. Bottom line, you're introducing foreign chemicals into your brain with the intent of screwing with the delicate chemical processes already taking place there. No reason to regret not doing that.

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Originally Posted by metal134

I'll tell you something that you've probably never heard anyone say before and will never hear anyone say again, but, I've never tried drugs and I regret it. I don't mean heroin, cocaine, etc., I'm talking about psychedelic stuff like LSD, mushrooms, peyote or even marijuana. I'm 30 now with a full time job and responsibilities, thus too old to begin experimenting, so my window has really passed. Perhaps the ideals of them as mind expanding are BS, perhaps not. Thing is, I'll never know.

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I am in the same boat, metal, though I'm still 25 and, at the moment, don't have many responsibilities, so the window of opportunity hasn't completely closed. :D

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Originally Posted by Calidore

Pacifiers? Good grief.

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Haha, I thought you'd like that.

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Originally Posted by Calidore

And having to chomp on pacifiers, and depressive crashing + dehydration hangover the next day, and if someone were to ask why they do it, they'd say, "It's fun."

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Well, the feeling can't be overrated. You know how desperate some people are for love, well, here's a little pill that almost exactly simulates love. *shrug* I can understand the allure. My lame friend Tom likes raves, he says there's a lot of bottled water involved anyway.

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Originally Posted by Shevek

As for dehydration, it is generally a consequence of over-exertion on the dance floor, not the drug itself. MDMA makes users feel impervious to heat and exhaustion; in other words, raves are probably the most dangerous place to do it. Although compared to the death rates caused by other stimulants, it's relatively safe even in a rave environment.

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Ahh, interesting. So it's not that the drug is making them dehydrated, it's that they're dehydrated and the drug is preventing them from becoming aware of it.

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Originally Posted by Shevek

MDMA originated with the '80s dance club scene, but it's no longer exclusively associated with dancing and raves. It is often approached like a hallucinogen, taken in comfortable environments with close friends. It has been used to treat post-traumatic stress disorder with a fairly high success rate in just a single dosage combined with psychotherapy. So long as it's taken in moderation, and it's pure (can't stress this enough), it can be safe and psychologically useful.

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As long as I don't have to go to a techno dance club, and if I could just not risk becomming dehydrated and passing out and being gang-raped by neon scene kids, I would try it.

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Originally Posted by Calidore

It may give the illusion of mind expansion (if you're lucky), but all it is is mind alteration.

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No, it's really true that sometimes you have an experience with drugs that can change your mind forever, and I don't mean physically. You can realize things that stick with you forever, or you can see things that start to become common motifs or which carry a strong emotional association (good or bad, that's the risk) throughout your entire life, and then once you're sober you find that your way of thinking has changed forever, in big or small ways. My boyfriend tried salvia once (legal in Canada) and he'll never think about squirrels the same way ever again. Unless you've experienced that sort of thing you won't get it, in the same way you can't describe what love is to a person who's never experienced it, or you can't describe a color to someone who's color blind.

I use marijuana to root out fears (I don't smoke more than once/week, I'd have trouble studying if I did and also it would be pointless since it would stop working). I think most people carry this sort of tension, this anxiety, around with them. With marijuana, these fears bubble to the surface, you can't repress them. You can distract away from them by watching a movie or listening to music or something which is what most people do when thye're high, but I choose to aknowledge my feelings of unsettlement, unravel them. I smoke when I'm feeling anxious and I don't know what's bothering me, and then once I'm high I realize what it is that's making me anxious, then I unravel that fear, and by conciously examining my worries they become trivial. When I'm sober, I find that I'm no longer worried about it and my outlook is just a little bit clearer.

People have to do drugs at the after-hour clubs and raves, because you can't drink at them. Imagine being sober in one of those hell holes?

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

People have to do drugs at the after-hour clubs and raves, because you can't drink at them. Imagine being sober in one of those hell holes?

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Or you simply do not go to those "hell holes"?

;)

I smoke like a chimney - cigarettes. I am a staunch abstainer from drugs of all kind. I drink occasionally.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

No, it's really true that sometimes you have an experience with drugs that can change your mind forever, and I don't mean physically. You can realize things that stick with you forever, or you can see things that start to become common motifs or which carry a strong emotional association (good or bad, that's the risk) throughout your entire life, and then once you're sober you find that your way of thinking has changed forever, in big or small ways.

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That's the tricky thing: The brain and mind are so complex, and are frequently unable to tell the difference between illusion and reality if the illusion is presented well enough. So if an experience with a drug changes your perception, how would you know that your new perception is true and not a permanent holdover from your altered state?

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

My boyfriend tried salvia once (legal in Canada) and he'll never think about squirrels the same way ever again.

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Is that an example of the good or the bad? :)

I have a friend who also changed his opinion of squirrels, but he did it by cooking a few and realizing that 1) it takes several to make a decent meal and 2) the meat's not that good anyway. So his opinion changed from "possibly useful" to "completely useless."

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

I use marijuana to root out fears (I don't smoke more than once/week, I'd have trouble studying if I did and also it would be pointless since it would stop working). I think most people carry this sort of tension, this anxiety, around with them. With marijuana, these fears bubble to the surface, you can't repress them. You can distract away from them by watching a movie or listening to music or something which is what most people do when thye're high, but I choose to aknowledge my feelings of unsettlement, unravel them. I smoke when I'm feeling anxious and I don't know what's bothering me, and then once I'm high I realize what it is that's making me anxious, then I unravel that fear, and by conciously examining my worries they become trivial. When I'm sober, I find that I'm no longer worried about it and my outlook is just a little bit clearer.

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That's probably the clearest example I've ever been given on how pot can be used in a positive fashion. I still don't like being around people who are high, though. They're not changed as such, just off somehow, like the pod people in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

Clarification: That applies to people high on pot. One night as a teenager I was with a friend and a few of his friends at the movies, and it turned out one of them had dropped acid. That not only ruined our whole night, but was one of the scariest damn things I've ever seen. He essentially had steel shutters slammed down between all of his senses and the real world and was a slave to whatever movie was playing in his mind. Reality, however, doesn't get out of your way if you can't perceive it.

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Originally Posted by Calidore

It may give the illusion of mind expansion (if you're lucky), but all it is is mind alteration. Bottom line, you're introducing foreign chemicals into your brain with the intent of screwing with the delicate chemical processes already taking place there. No reason to regret not doing that.

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Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't. But I would prefer to have found out for myself.

It's worth noting that most drugs work by bulking up on the drugs that are already in our body, dope gets you high because it's already in you and your brain knows to react to it, too much of it is too much of it. So it's not really adding foreign chemicals, because if the drug wasn't already in you it wouldn't do anything to you. Maybe kill, or make you poop a bunch, but most likely won't get you any sort of high.

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Originally Posted by metal134

Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't. But I would prefer to have found out for myself.

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Well if you're 30 and have a full-time job, responsibilities, etc you can still try pot at night. It's not too late. The effects will last 4-6 hours max. Try marijuana or hashish first. You can experiment with LSD, mushrooms, ecstasy, etc. on the weekends, but I wouldn't recommend it.

It does have the ability to expand your consciousness. This is almost always a good thing, but bad trips are possible at any age. The thing is, you will probably never be quite the same, for better or worse. To me, it's worth it, but sometimes I wish I would have never tried drugs. You can't put the genie back in the bottle once you've done it.