The Most Important People in History

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Lurie

If I get it right you are talking about important and influential figures a posteriori, we are not talking about figures who were important and influential only in their own time even when their power and influence was very deep, but where we draw the line? and what kind of value has chance in all of this? Saint Paul - the real founder of Christianity - and Mohamed are hard to beat but what role has played chance in making their legacy everlasting?
Probably chance is a necessary attribute of every historical figure whose importance and influence has expanded well beyond his/her life span, but wouldn't it be fair to recognize the greatness of the figures who were revolutionaries in their own time? Figures whose will was a decisive factor in making them important and influential? looking at it this way I'd say Mohamed is much greater than Saint Paul (basically a by-product of the roman empire).
Anyway, though chance has played its obvious role for them too I'm unable to imagine the course of the world in the last 500 years without the actions performed by Luther and Columbus.

---

I originally meant it in the sense of historical people who have had a major impact on the shaping of the modern world - but I suppose people can interpret that as they see fit!

Saint Paul, Mohamed and Luther I can see - but Columbus? Not so sure about that one...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lokasenna

Saint Paul, Mohamed and Luther I can see - but Columbus? Not so sure about that one...

---

Well if Columbus hadn't discovered America we wouldn't have had many important scientific inventions such as the modern computer, as well as household labour-saving devices like the washing machine, the vacuum cleaner, the sewing machine etc. Not to mention Elvis, lime flavoured popsicles, Desperate Housewives, Ronald McDonald, GWB.. ..the list goes on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emil Miller

Well if Columbus hadn't discovered America we wouldn't have had many important scientific inventions such as the modern computer, as well as household labour-saving devices like the washing machine, the vacuum cleaner, the sewing machine etc. Not to mention Elvis, lime flavoured popsicles, Desperate Housewives, Ronald McDonald, GWB.. ..the list goes on.

---

Or we might have had better computers, flying cars and jet packs. Who knows, eh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lokasenna

but Columbus? Not so sure about that one...

---

Well, I am not here to convince you but just imagine a world without him and let's face it: we have no idea if - and when - Europeans would have discovered the New World without Columbus' obsession and wrong calculations, nobody knew nor imagined that there was land between the West and the East, this would be interesting stuff for alternative history. What would have been of Spain without the gold of the Americas? and what about tomato/potato/etcetera that will slowly change and improve the diet of a ravaged Europe? what about the Mediterranean Sea remaining forever the center of the (European) world? there are so many crazy scenarios you can imagine ... it's almost a pity that Columbus ruined them all with his idée fixe :brow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Lurie

Well, I am not here to convince you but just imagine a world without him and let's face it: we have no idea if - and when - Europeans would have discovered the New World without Columbus' obsession and wrong calculations, nobody knew nor imagined that there was land between the West and the East, this would be interesting stuff for alternative history. What would have been of Spain without the gold of the Americas? and what about tomato/potato/etcetera that will slowly change and improve the diet of a ravaged Europe? what about the Mediterranean Sea remaining forever the center of the (European) world? there are so many crazy scenarios you can imagine ... it's almost a pity that Columbus ruined them all with his idée fixe :brow:

---

Actually, Columbus wasn't the first European to discover America.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Propter W.

Actually, Columbus wasn't the first European to discover America.

---

In my opinion a discovery brings knowledge and historical consequences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vonny

I think the most important person in history is the one who has the smile that makes you feel absolutely crazy!

---

Now I wonder who that could be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Propter W.

Actually, Columbus wasn't the first European to discover America.

---

If by that you are trying to be clever and sate that it was indeed Amerigo Vespucci who discovered America, you are still wrong. He discovered the mainland of what is now U.S.A, after Columbus discovered the west indies. However for those of of us who know that America does not equal U.S.A, Columbus was the first to do it.

Now an argument may be held for the icelandic explorers who arrived in Canada several centuries before Columbus. They were the first to set foot in America, but they wee not the first to Discover it. To Discover a land one must produce some form of documentation of it. Or at leas that is how we define discovery nowadays.

That is also why the claim that it was the Chinese general Zehng He, who discovered, is not accepted. While it is entirely possible that he did land there first, he produced no documentation of his discovery and thus it cannot be accredited to him and the Chinese.

As Oscar Wilde said: "America was discovered many times before Columbus but they always managed to hush it up."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by prendrelemick

Tim Berners-Lee. I'm not saying he invented the Internet, and obviously it couldn't exist without a thousand other innovations. But his contribution is having the vision to ensure it is free and open. Thats a huge contribution to world history and is getting huger by the year .

---

Can I trot out my 'he was a couple of years above me at school' thing?

We know for a fact that the Vikings discovered America some five centuries before Columbus - not only do we have several sagas relating the discovery of 'Vinland', but archeaologists have also found Viking Age artefacts there as well.

But that aside, even in Columbus' time, there were other European sailors who had seen bits of the americas - they just hadn't landed. I attended a lecture on 14th/15th century cartography the other week, and the chap who gave it was showing that a lot of the maps produced around that time put lands out there, with remarkable accuracy in terms of placement. Though not officially confirmed, the knowledge of the presence of land out there was obviously doing the rounds among the sea-faring classes.

In other words, Columbus may not have known what it was, but he had a pretty good idea it was there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexander III

If by that you are trying to be clever and sate that it was indeed Amerigo Vespucci who discovered America, you are still wrong. He discovered the mainland of what is now U.S.A, after Columbus discovered the west indies. However for those of of us who know that America does not equal U.S.A, Columbus was the first to do it.

Now an argument may be held for the icelandic explorers who arrived in Canada several centuries before Columbus. They were the first to set foot in America, but they wee not the first to Discover it. To Discover a land one must produce some form of documentation of it. Or at leas that is how we define discovery nowadays.

That is also why the claim that is was the Chinese general Zehng He who dissevered it is not accepted. While it is entirely possible that he did land there first, he produced no documentation of his discovery and thus it cannot be accredited to him and the Chinese.

---

See Lokasenna's post. He explains it rather well, I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexander III

The problem with most of these is that they are distinctly American, america has been around for 200 years, and it has only been a powerful nation for 100 years. In terms of human written history, America is a wink.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jersea

If you aren't American that viewpoint is very clear, but to many Americans that idea is shocking. Strange as it may be.

---

The thread asks for the most important people in history, not giving a specific starting point as to when people will be considered. My two American nominations were, to me, perhaps the most important in American history.

I'm clearly aware America as a nation hasn't existed as long as the Roman Empire, but my nominations were for American "History."

Why not say Adam and Eve? If the Bible is true word for word, didn't we spawn from them?

Even if we want to say Columbus was the first someone would have got there eventually.

There is also evidence that the Portuguese knew of the existence of Brazil from their sailing techniques that brought them through the mid-Atlantic to their West African Colonies to avoid rough waters. Which may be why the Portuguese insisted on claiming newly discovered territories East of the Bahamas.