The FINAL Thread on what "atheist/m" actually means!

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

I suspect you're looking at it from the wrong angle - it's not the kind of salute you were thinking of.

I could be wrong - and my apologies if I am - but I see four fingers and a thumb, with the middle finger extended and the other fingers folded down.

Didn't really add a lot to the thread, but one way of saying "**** you" without recourse, I suppose.

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That's a shame - I had thought it some kind of ontological quandry.

This thread shouldn't descend into abuse, from either side. We are, all of us, mature adults. I'm sure that we can have an informed, civilized discussion, even in view of our differing opinions. I may not like Dawkins' ideas, but I respect the man as an intellectual and a free thinker, and I certainly wouldn't give him the one-fingered salute.

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We are, all of us, mature adults.

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Heh, I suppose I should feel honored.

I wholeheartedly agree with your post, but I don't want to condemn him until he verifies what it truly means. I'm still holding out on the possibility that I might be right in my previous guess.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

Yeah, but it is a pretty irritating personality trait. There are a lot of us that will side with the opposing view just to spite people with the "evangelical bug," so more often than not it has the opposite to the desired effect. If pushy folk are going to look at it logically, shoving their opinions down other people's throats is a total waste of time.

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Have to differ on 'total waste of time.' Noisy, abrasive pushing works very well for Rush, et al.

When one has the notion that they know something that others need to know (e.g. the Gospel, the primary ingredient of Soylent Green, the correct spelling of 'millennium') they try to pass on the information. They may be inept, irritating, even dangerous, but their intentions just might be good.

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Originally Posted by Leland Gaunt

I agree with this. Just so long as either group's image isn't defined by the evangelicals or even the passive portion. Both have positive and negative sides to them.

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Unfortunately it is the evangelical members who are out front creating the public image of a group, particularly when it's viewed through the lens of the media.

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Unfortunately it is the evangelical members who are out front creating the public image of a group, particularly when it's viewed through the lens of the media.

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It really is unfortunate, because of this a lot of people get defensive with their views, and hardliners have been created on each side.:(

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Originally Posted by El Viejo

Have to differ on 'total waste of time.' Noisy, abrasive pushing works very well for Rush, et al.

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Hey man, they aint noisy and abrasive! They're... whimsical and rebellious!

Maybe you both know... Maybe neither of you realize... Nice work, either way!

Ho hum - re-education time again!

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

Atheism is a faith just like any religion let me show you

Atheism = faith that there is no god

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This is wrong. To save me repeating it all, please read the thread from the start. You are not the arbiter of the meaning of the word and you are incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

As it is not known weather there is a god or not

Now you may say I am wrong and atheism is merely

Atheist = without belief in god/s.

So it is not a faith. But then I might say religion is not a faith as it is simply

Deist = without belief of absence of god/s.

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You'd be wrong there as well.

Deists are not theists and generally don't belong to any religion.

I've noticed that atheists spend more time thinking about/pondering/discussing/worrying about God than people who actually believe there is a God

Atheism has been a theory, an antagonistic theory and nothing beyond that. It is a reaction to believers only and in itself it is drivel.

Theism is on the other hand is a search for the unknown. It is not the final. In the Veda there is a mention of eternal search. I do not know for sure there is God or not but the search is fascinating

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Originally Posted by keilj

I've noticed that atheists spend more time thinking about/pondering/discussing/worrying about God than people who actually believe there is a God

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Either they don't see it, or don't want to admit it, just the fact that they can't stop from coming into religious threads, the God(s) that they don't believe in actually controls their lives.

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Originally Posted by keilj

I've noticed that atheists spend more time thinking about/pondering/discussing/worrying about God than people who actually believe there is a God

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Really? Because I don't stop several times a day to pray to my God like a Muslim, nor do I commemorate a weekly Sabbath. The only time I ever engage in these debates on the site is when I witness outright misunderstanding of science, which offends me as a scientist, or silly attacks on atheism like the above, which offends me as an atheist. Either you're grossly underestimating how much time is spent in religious worship by many theist, or grossly overestimating the amount of time it takes an atheist to make a forum post.

I don't go into the theistic threads to argue that God doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

Atheism has been a theory, an antagonistic theory and nothing beyond that. It is a reaction to believers only and in itself it is drivel.

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Nonsense, let's distance ourselves merely from the existence of modern militant atheism. Early atheist philosophers, like Mill and Locke, have been essential in the development of our concepts of secular liberty. Religious minorities have benefited from atheist thinkers, just as some have suffered as a result of others like Mao and Stalin. Likewise, many atheist have been murdered by religious extremist.

To take such a reductionist position and view an entire group of people as purely antagonistic is nothing more than outright prejudice.

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

Theism is on the other hand is a search for the unknown. It is not the final. In the Veda there is a mention of eternal search. I do not know for sure there is God or not but the search is fascinating

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I would argue the search is a waste of time and energy could be used better elsewhere. The only problems I have with religion is when it is used to try and justify limiting the liberties of others. Unfortunately, it so often is.

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

I don't go into the theistic threads to argue that God doesn't exist.

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Thank you. But other atheists do, and with a lot of venom.

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Originally Posted by Haunted

Thank you. But other atheists do, and with a lot of venom.

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And in some countries atheism is punishable by death. And public opinion polls show that Americans are less likely to vote for atheist, they're less popular than gays but a bit more than pedophiles.

It's not as if religious proselytizing and self-promotion isn't a common occurrence.

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Originally Posted by keilj

I've noticed that atheists spend more time thinking about/pondering/discussing/worrying about God than people who actually believe there is a God

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As usual, I've been pipped by Orphan.

This is so absurd as to almost be beyond comment.

I don't know any atheists that spend any time at all thinking about god.

A few of us are interested in religion.

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

Atheism has been a theory, an antagonistic theory and nothing beyond that. It is a reaction to believers only and in itself it is drivel.

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I don't see how you could describe it as antagonistic - can you explain please?

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

Theism is on the other hand is a search for the unknown. It is not the final. In the Veda there is a mention of eternal search. I do not know for sure there is God or not but the search is fascinating

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Science is a search for the unknown as well; it actually gets the odd result.

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Originally Posted by Haunted

Either they don't see it, or don't want to admit it, just the fact that they can't stop from coming into religious threads, the God(s) that they don't believe in actually controls their lives.

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Ah, I see you repeating the same fallacy.

In what way does entering a discussion control my life?

I have pointed out on more occasions than I could count that we have numerous, demonstrable instances of where religion, left unchecked, would rule our lives as it does in many parts of the world where a theocracy exists.

It's not even an original assertion you're making, but it's one of the less well-known ones.

Instead of making silly assertions, just expand on your premise and explain how me attending the occasional religious thread - and if you check the number I'm involved in, it is a small percentage of the whole - is "controlling my life".

Thanks.

You do realise this thread is about atheism, don't you?

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

Either you're grossly underestimating how much time is spent in religious worship by many theist, or grossly overestimating the amount of time it takes an atheist to make a forum post.

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I am dead set sick and tired of you making all these excellent comments while I'm asleep! You leave me with little to say.

:D

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Originally Posted by Haunted

Thank you. But other atheists do, and with a lot of venom.

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I'll just add a question to Pip's comments:

Last time you made this assertion, I asked you for evidence of these people who "Go into atheist threads to argue that god doesn't exist, with venom"

I'm still waiting.

Where is your evidence that what you're claiming exists? Please show me more than one or two posts where that has ever happened at LitNet.

I believe your entire position is made of straw.

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

And in some countries atheism is punishable by death. And public opinion polls show that Americans are less likely to vote for atheist, they're less popular than gays but a bit more than pedophiles.

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I'm not aware of polls about atheist leaderships, I heard there's some issues with Protestants vs. Catholics on the presidency level. But that's ages ago. Now it's all about who has a better spin on jumpstarting the economy.

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It's not as if religious proselytizing and self-promotion isn't a common occurrence.

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there's always a bit of that on both sides, but just don't trash other people's faith and do any naming calling like the guy in the sky but much worse. Just yesterday there was another inflammatory post about the Pope but thankfully it was quickly deleted by the mods.