God Exist

To 42:Please Do not say that impolite words about your Creator (in this way you are violating the rules of the forums: respecting the beliefs of others). God does exist whether you accept the thought or refuse it. Otherwise can you tell me who created you? Nature? Is Nature so wise to create such complex entity. Chance? Does this make sense? And look at our world: there is governance in everything: a family has a father, a school has a headmaster, a city has a governor, a state has a president, so , rationally the world needs to have a Lord. There is courts on earth to achieve justice, but not all criminals are punished, so it is very reasonable that there is a day when those criminals are punished and victims are satisfied with this . It's oversimplification to ignore a lot of facts around us and get rid of all reasonable things by saying there is no God. Science says that every phenomenon has a reason and purpose. Life and death two are phenomena and should have reasons and purposes. Disbelieving in Good and life after death makes make these two phenomena purposeless and causeless.

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Originally Posted by NisreenS

Dear grotto, Yes,I have been told to believe in God when I was a child. I was a good believer until I was 22, when I started to ask questions about all what I have taken for granted for the past years. I discovered that believing in God and life after death answers all questions about man and existence and his last destiny, while suspecting all that doesn't answer anything. I don't want to be astray again after I arrived to the truth at last. And there is a question to you: Have you ever died and discovered that there is nothing after death and you have come back to enlighten us?

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From “The Menagerie” They have their illusion, and you have yours. May you live in peace.

To your question; Nope, I haven’t come here to do anything more than ask questions. I don’t give a “you know what” about yours, or anyone else’s enlightenment.

No truth that can be understood in the feeble mind of a human is ever to be believed. No belief can ever be held as truth. Belief negates infinite truth as truth negates stoic beliefs.

Yeah, this seems silly. Nice story - but it doesn't really prove a point.

I could go on and list hundreds of stories that contradict this one, but that would take too long, so i'll just list a couple - namely, the one's that i have encountered in everyday life.

My favourite arguement for the nonexistance of god is this: my grandfather fought in the second world war (and, before you get on your self-righteous high-horse, he had to fight - he was conscripted and had no choice in the matter)

He was hiding in a bunker, along with his fellow soldiers. The bunker was being shelled. They were helpless, so they prayed. As soon as they finished their prayer, a huge icycle fell from the ceiling of the bunker and hit one of his friends. Needless to say, the man that was hit died instantly. If that wasn't ironic enough, my grandfather was actually praying that, if anyone was to die, it should be him, because he was the only one there who wasn't married with children. The man that died was a father of three. Was God there for these men when they needed him? No.

Another thing: a woman i used to know (note USED to know) was extremely pious. She went to church every Sunday, made sure her kids went to church and Sunday school. She was active in the community - everyone loved her, she was probably one of the most selfless, kind hearted people i've ever met. She died in agony, of breast cancer.

Finally, my old English tutor, a lovely lady and very, very traditionally religious, who goes to church every Sunday, prays every evening etc. She's currently unable to walk, awaiting a hip replacement and surgery. She's in constant pain (even, may i add, while she's praying)

Like i said - i could go on and on. Everyone has some stories like that - stories that are pretty good evidence for god's nonexistance. Or maybe God does exist - only he doesn't give a damn about human suffering. I can't remember who it was who came up with this arguement - some philosopher, only their name eludes me - but, when you think about it, it is actually impossible for a Christian "all-loving" and omnipotent god to exist: it's entirely contradictory!! If god has supreme power over all beings and loves all beings, he would be able to stop the suffering. Maybe he does exist, only is not omnipotent and therefore is unable to stop suffering - or maybe he is omnipotent, but, like i said, is not all-loving and therefore does nothing to alleviate suffering.

If the idea of God and religion does enrich your life - fine. And good for you: You have a hobby! But, as much as i would love to derive inner peace from meditation, praying, reading psalms and singing hymns or whatever - i just can't delude myself. I've TRIED to be a Christian - really, i have - but i just can't take myself seriously - it bugs me, and when i pray or go to church i just can't get over the feeling that what i'm doing is silly, old-fashioned and pointless besides.

And if heaven and hell DO exist - great. Suits me just fine. If they do exist, i'm hell-bound, which is awesome because Byron, Shelley and Paganini are there too, to name just a few ;)

I guess there's an "s" missing in the thread title. "God exists." When I was merely making a correction, God enabled me to tell the Truth!

Very true,God exists and if The Almighty doesn't exist all systems won't work.

tanks a bunch for that great topic

My first post here - Hey let my name be Ocma here :).

anyway back to the thread topic, alot of the time i think he does. so there.

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Originally Posted by JBI

Another one? Read before posting, geez. This isn't a cut and paste forum - it's for discussion of literary texts. Why don't people stop forwarding their emails here?

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I don't understand. What are you telling me? Because we do not know the original author of this story, that this story has not been published, that it's method of distribution is e-mail, then that means that it is not literature...

I believe that there is at least some validity in the argument made in the story. I believe that I understand the original poster's beliefs are that there is a God and that God is there to relieve the pain and suffering if people will go to Him. The intent, if I am not mistaken, was that others would reciprocate such thoughts. I don't think that it is appropriate to belittle this forum member concerning this post, or their beliefs.

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As far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with the bible, or any other text, and instead insults my beliefs as an atheist.

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This person did not mention the Bible, nor did this person mention Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other religion. This was a reference to one's belief in God and the relation to suffering. From my perspective, this person did not intend to insult anyone's belief, but it was merely pointed out that there is a disagreement from other's points of view. The request at the end of the original post was one of two things: either to respond in a positive manner if you agreed with the existence of God, or if it is the case that you do not believe in the existence of God, please ignore this post.

So if you agree with me we can talk and if you don't you have nothing to say?

Not really conducive to open discussion is it?

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No truth that can be understood in the feeble mind of a human is ever to be believed. No belief can ever be held as truth. Belief negates infinite truth as truth negates stoic beliefs.

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Basically, I can just see you are holding to the idea that it is impossible to know truth. No reason really to think this. Even if you ever known it or met anyone you thought knew it. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just means it's rare and worthwhile. You mentioned you had read Ramana Maharshi. Didn't you find anything worthwhile in his writings? If you didn't it's understandable, most people probably wouldn't, but just thought I'd ask (the question).

Basically, you see very little if you think I hold to any idea.

The simplest reason might be that he just doesn't care.

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Originally Posted by grotto

Basically, you see very little if you think I hold to any idea.

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I assume when you say something you meant to say it..

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Originally Posted by JBI

Another one? Read before posting, geez. This isn't a cut and paste forum - it's for discussion of literary texts. Why don't people stop forwarding their emails here?

As far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with the bible, or any other text, and instead insults my beliefs as an atheist.

These boards are not for converting - if I'm not posting topics like "why religious people are idiots", and not copying and pasting from Dawkins or whomever, why should religious people be allowed the same freedom?

Basically I find this insulting. It says that because I am not Christian, or whatever monotheistic religion this seems to follow (though I think it is Christian, because I know Jewish Dogma would consider this ridiculous) I deserve all the suffering and whatnot that comes to me. It says I am not entitled to good unless I believe in god. It says people suffer because they do not accept God. It basically says, tough luck Atheist, rot in hell.

It says more than that. It says those people who don't have food in poor countries deserve it, because they don't believe in "God". It says many worse things than that, and it is not the least bit unoffensive.

I think of it eventually leads to this argument - "Jews got what they deserved during the Sho'ah because they did not accept the teaching of Jesus Christ." Or any other form of justification. Bigoted, and, ironically, not even justified within scripture.

It seems like whoever wrote that needs to read the book of Job. Either way, I don't think copy and pasting goes with the forum rules, and I don't think the content does either - how could it not offend. I'm surprised this isn't locked - I don't want to say there is a double standard, so I guess I'll just say it hasn't been gotten around to yet.

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I was going to post something, but you said absolutely everything that I was about to, only more effectively.

God is the source or root of reality. God is the infinite.

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Originally Posted by NikolaiI

God is the source or root of reality. God is the infinite.

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Got any proof for that?