Charles Bukowski

Those are good poems Dirt McKert and Geoffrey. Brilliant in fact in their own simple way. The man did have a knack for the word.

Here's the great man's take on the City of Light.

Paris

was just like not being there.

Celine was gone.

there was nobody there.

Paris was a bite of bluegrey air.
the women rushed by as if you would never
DARE to go to bed with
them.

there were no armies around.

everybody was rich.
there were no poor in view.
there were no old in view.

to sit at a table in a cafe
would get you careful stares from the other
patrons
who were certain that they were
more important than
you.
food was too expensive to eat.
a bottle of wine would cost you
your left hand.

Celine was gone.

the fat men smoked cigars and became
gloried puffs of smoke.

the thin men sat very straight and spoke
only to each other.
the waiters had big feet and were sure
that they were more important than
anything or
anybody.

Celine was gone.

and Picasso was dying.

Paris was absolutely nothing.

I did see a dog that looked like a white wolf.

I don't remember leaving Paris.

but I must have been there.

it was somewhat like leaving
a fashion magazine in a
train station.

i just finsihed ham on rye by bukowski and loved it, it reminded me a little of Dostoeosky's notes for the underground(which is my all time favorite story) interesting he had a brothers k reference in it.

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum, and so far i'm hooked. I was curious to what the general opinion of the poet Charles Bukowski is. His poetry is more often than not, totally vulgar and sometimes very offensive. In my own opinion he is a great poet, i wouldn't compare him to great classical poets such as Wordsworth or Shakespeare, I would however say he is in a class of his own.

Enough from me, whats the general opinion?

one of my personal favorites...




having the flu and
with nothing else to do

I read a book about John Dos Passos and according to
the book once radical-communist
John ended up in the Hollywood Hills living off investments
and reading the
Wall Street Journal

this seems to happen all too often.

what hardly ever happens is
a man going from being a young conservative to becoming an
old wild-*** radical

however:
young conservatives always seem to become old
conservatives.
it's a kind of lifelong mental vapor-lock.

but when a young radical ends up an
old radical
the critics
and the conservatives
treat him as if he escaped from a mental
institution.

such is our politics and you can have it
all.

keep it.

sail it up your
***.

two kinds of hell

I sat in the same bar for 7 years, from 5 a.m.
(the day bartender let me in 2 hours early)
to 2 a.m.

sometimes I didn't even remember going back
to my room

it were as if I were sitting on the barstool
forever

I had no money but the drinks kept
arriving
to then I wasn't the bar clown
but the bar fool
but at times a fool will find a greater
fool to
admire him,
and,
it was a crowded
place

actually, I had a viewpoint: I was waiting for
something extraordinary to
happen

but as the years wasted on
nothing ever did unless I
caused it:

broken bar mirrors, a fight with a 7 foot
giant, a dalliance with a lesbian, many things
like the ability to call a spade a spade and to
settle arguments that I did not
begin and etc. and etc. and etc.

one day I just upped and left the
place

like that

and I began to drink alone and I found the company
quite all right

then, as if the gods were bored with my peace at
heart, knocks began upon my door: ladies
the gods had sent the ladies to the
fool

and the ladies arrived one at a time and when it ended with
one
the gods immediately--without allowing me any respite--sent
another

and each began as a flash of miracle--even the bed--and the
good ended up
bad

my fault, of course, yes, that's what they told
me

but I remembered the 7 years in the bar, I hardly ever bedded
down with anybody

the gods just won't let a man drink alone, they are jealous of
his simple strength and salvation, they will send the lady
knocking upon that door
I remember all those cheap hotels, it were as if the women
were one: the delicate little rap on the wood and then:
"oh, I heard you playing that music on your radio...we're
neighbors, I'm down at 603 but I've never even seen you in
the hall..."

"come on in..."

and there go your balls and your sanctity, Men's Liberation,
they say, is not needed
and then you remember the bar
when you walked up behind the 7 foot giant and knocked his
cowboy hat off his head, yelling:
"I'll bet you sucked your mother's nipples until you were
12 years old!"

somebody in the bar saying: "hey, sir, forget it, he's a mental
case, he's an *******, he doesn't know what he is
saying!"

"I know EXACTLY what I am saying and I'll say it again:
I'll bet you sucked..."

he won but you didn't die, not at all the way you died when the
gods arranged to get all those ladies knocking and you went for
the first flash of miracle

the other fight was more fair: he was slow, stupid and even a
little bit frightened and it went well for quite a good while,
just like with the ladies those gods
sent

the difference being, I thought I had a chance with the
ladies

I love most of what I've read of Bukowski's poetry, but I read Factotum and must admit that I didn't get much from it. I enjoyed it but I was disappointed. The only scene that really stuck with me was the ending one (great last line, though "And I just couldn't get it up" or something of that sort). Since I love his poetry so much I don't want to give up on his prose. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Opinions?

I just started reading "Tales of Ordinary Madness" and have to say everything about it seems a bit juvenile. I'm surprised, as I considered "Ham on Rye" a great novel, and Post Office and Factotum both very good. I've also read "Hollywood" by him, which I thought just good.

I know opinions vary greatly on the guy, but I think he has some real talent and has produced some great work (Ham on Rye probably his best). But I can understand the dissenters, as much of his work is often very similar, in terms of themes and even content; Ham on Rye, Factotum and Post Office could function as a trilogy.

Okay, that's all I got for now. What do yall think?

When I read him I read him compulsively. He does stir some madness in me for sure.
My favorite stories of his come from 'Hot Water Music.' I'm sure some people don't see value in his work, but I have to disagree. Beneath the dingy surface there is a great deal of social commentary, insight, and perspective.

I have only read one of his stories. What was the name--
It was about to boozers, who make a plan to steal from a clothing store.
I have put Bukowski on my readins list since then.

I am curently reading 'Women' by Bukowski and i cannot say whether i like it or not. I have mixed feelings about his writing. Often vulgar ........ but also very direct and honest. I love his poetry though.

"I've always been accused of being a cynic. I think cynicism is sour grapes. I think cynicism is a weakness. It's saying "everything is wrong! EVERYTHING IS WRONG!" You know? "This is not right! That is not right!" Cynicism is the weakness that keeps one from being able to adjust to what is occurring at the moment. Yes, cynicism is definiteiy a weakness, just as optimism is. "The sun is shining, the birds are singing -- so smile." That's bull**** too. The truth lies somewhere in between. What is, just is. So you're not ready to handle it...too bad."
-- Charles Bukowski

I don't know if Bukowski is a great writer but he certainly has a great sense of humor....Post Office is one of the few books that make me laugh out loud.

Ham on Rye shows a heavy Celine influence and I consider it his most serious work....His dad is a memorable character.

Never cared much for his poetry at all....I think one appreciates Bukowski more when they are younger.

I wonder if anyone is a fan of Bukowski?

I am particularly struck by 1992's The Last Night of the Earth Poems.

I enjoy his gritty style, and his focus on working people.

“Humanity, you never had it to begin with.” -C. Bukowski


Friends Within The Darkness

I can remember starving in a
small room in a strange city
shades pulled down, listening to
classical music
I was young I was so young it hurt like a knife
inside
because there was no alternative except to hide as long
as possible--
not in self-pity but with dismay at my limited chance:
trying to connect.

the old composers -- Mozart, Bach, Beethoven,
Brahms were the only ones who spoke to me and
they were dead.

finally, starved and beaten, I had to go into
the streets to be interviewed for low-paying and
monotonous
jobs
by strange men behind desks
men without eyes men without faces
who would take away my hours
break them
piss on them.

now I work for the editors the readers the
critics

but still hang around and drink with
Mozart, Bach, Brahms and the
Bee
some buddies
some men
sometimes all we need to be able to continue alone
{excerpt}

C. Bukowski

Well, what do you think?

I'm not a Bukowski fan. Not only is he crude and frankly uncivilized but more importantly I don't see the poetry there. What is poetic about that?

Mostly, I agree with Virgil on Bukowski but others apparently see some merit here. The Poetry Foundation has this to say by way of intro: "Charles Bukowski (1920 - 1994)
Charles Bukowski was a prolific underground writer who depicted in his poetry and prose the depraved metropolitan environments of the downtrodden in American society. A cult hero, Bukowski relied on experience, emotion, and imagination in his works, often using direct language and violent and sexual imagery. While some critics found his style offensive, others claimed that Bukowski satirized the machismo attitude through his routine use of sex, alcohol abuse, and violence. "Without trying to make himself look good, much less heroic, Bukowski writes with a nothing-to-lose truthfulness which sets him apart from most other 'autobiographical' novelists and poets," commented Stephen Kessler in the San Francisco Review of Books, adding: "Firmly in the American tradition of the maverick, Bukowski writes with no apologies from the frayed edge of society, beyond or beneath respectability, revealing nasty and alarming underviews." Michael Lally, writing in Village Voice, maintained that "Bukowski is . . a phenomenon. He has established himself as a writer with a consistent and insistent style based on what he projects as his 'personality,' the result of hard, intense living."

I can certainly understand some people's dislike of Bukowski-- he is what he is, love him or hate him. I like the subjects discussed- they aren't pretty, and sometimes to discuss them with pretty, flowery language is to demean them. People with a really traditional view of poetry sometimes get hampered by the rules. This leads to a stifling of poetry, at times. Done well, it can be a beautiful thing. Bukowski, along with many others, threw those rules out the window, leaving an ugly lump, which, to some (myself) is beautiful in its own right. I think Bukowski had something to say, which transcends rules of traditional poetry. What he did, in my view, is hold a mirror up to society, which is inherently ugly and crass.

Well, that's a good defense Cellar Door. I guess we won't agree. ;) No sweat. Enjoy his work.