June Book: Pride & Prejudice.

Oh, I am perfectly aware of what the times were like when she was writing, and I know that it will make an impact in the novel, but at the same time you see these marriages that seem more than perfect and are very predictable. I knew while reading that novel that Darcy would end up with Elizabeth and Jane would end up with Bingley. For that matter, Lydia ending up with the officer (name slipped my memory) didn't really surprise me either. I think I am trying to point out how predictible this book is and going way off topic. lol Sorry

yes but that is caused because times in our past were in fact predictable. and thinking about it now, I can predict how I end also... :) I mean in one way or another we always know how it ends. only sometimes we do not think about it and thus it is lost in our thoughts...no?
to the book, to me it was predictable, but that was not the main idea of the book. I am still reading it. But I suppose that Austen wanted to show the "fight" with pride and prejudice that was that time so apparent. of course we can feel at the beginning how this fight ends up, possibly austen wanted to show the possibility that there is a chance to win over pride and prejudice.

has anyone here seen the adaptation with colin firth? i have borrowed it from my bf's mom and am going to try and watch it tonight.

VBM: I have seen that adaptation and have become a big Colin Firth fan because of it. :banana: ;)

I think this book suffers from the "Casablanca Syndrome". In its time it probably wasn't as predictable or obvious, just like Casablanca. But as time has passed other people have copied, used the same themes, etc... to make it more predictable. The first time i saw Casablanca i couldn't believe how cheesy it was, using those old cliches..... Then it hit me that those cheesy cliches originated from that movies. DOH!! :blush:

oh well, I think it was meant to be predictable and easy so that we could see the characters of people and somehow get into the scene. no? but for example, part where Darcy helped Lydia (that's where I am) is a big surprise to me. wasn't it to you also?

What surprised me was that Catherine deBerge went to visit Elizabeth. I'm curious to know how she found out about the suppossed engagement?

I assume that it was Mr. Darcy who made it clear to Catherine. I can imagine her face when she heard of it for the first time :D

i actually thought not, about darcy telling catherine....maybe i am confused but i thought he seemed as surprised as elizabeth that she knew. i figured perhaps the sister of bingley, as she was the malicious sort, and must have known what was going on. the thing was that few people were aware of the relationship that was developing between lizzie and darcy, so there are only a few suspects. i dont think darcy's sister had it in her to tell anyone, she was too much the meek type to stick her nose in like that.
maybe i am on the wrong track completely?
and for some reason the whole thing about appearances bothered the heck out of me. i think that is why i dont care so much for the "victorian society' type novels. sort of like the theme througout "the importance of being earnest" in that it is much more important how things LOOK or appear to be rather than how things actually ARE. i just have a hard time wrapping my head around that shallow attitude. perhaps i am just too liberal and modern to understand it, but when i see that type of thing displayed even now, it just grates my a$$ to the bone.

well, VBM I guess you are right. Thinking about it for the second time, Darcy did not seem to be the type of man who would be running around with his feelings...

In answer to papayahed's question, I believe that Lady Catherine originally heard about the supposed engagement through Mr. Collins, who says in his letter to Elizabeth that he had mentioned it to Lady Catherine. Elizabeth supposes that he had gotten the rumor from the Lucases: "she recollected that his being the intimate friend of Bingley, and her being the sister of Jane, was enough, at a time when the expectation of one wedding, made everybody eager for another, to supply the idea." No one knew anything for certain, but the rumor grew nonetheless.

In reply to vbm, the whole thing about appearances is part of the big picture of what I LOVE about this book: it's universal. People still judge on appearances, and this novel lets us know that things were like that back then, too. Jane Austen's real purpose with this book, in my opinion, is a social commentary on how foolish it is to judge on first impressions, because Elizabeth's first impressions turn out to be all wrong. The fact that this book is such an apt social satire and has such a remarkable heroine as Elizabeth Bennet, yet was written in the early 19th century, makes this book extraordinary to me.

I´m a big fan of Jane Austen's novels. Perhaps it is so because i'm a romantic and I always like happy endings. But thats not the sole reason. In "Pride and Prejudice" with Elizabeth Bennet's character Jane Austen shows the reader a strond-willed, determinated woman and I have to say that in the end she is rewarded for her integrety, she falls in love and has a 2nd chance with the proud Mr Darcy despite of everyone else, dispite of her own loud, indiscret family, for love.
There are many passages where this character can be seen in its esplendor, capable of sustaining a conversation, demonstrate and elaborate an opinion, as a full member of society -- whitch women weren't! She could be a man amoung men and a opinionated woman among women.
One of the passages of the book I find te most feminist its when she categoracly desmisses Mr Darcy and tells him there's no chance she'll marry him.
It´s a great book that I never get tired of reading again and again, And it still marvels me every time!
Liz

The 1st time i wrote I still haden't read all the other opinions so, I hope no one will mind if I "speak" again.
in the 19th century a women's only accepted ocupation consisted in being someone's wife. Society didn't aproved, for instance, that a women would write; the ones who did it didn't sign their work or used man's names if they wanted to be published. So, if you didn't get married you would be dependent of other family members and their's generosity; that´s why a comfortable marriage like the one Charlotte had was better than no marriage at all.
Pride and Prejudice is about Elizabeth Bennet's and Mr Darcy's realisation that both are proud and have been acting under prejudicious asumpsions and first impressions ( "First Impressions" was Austen´s 1st name for PP, later on she changed it to the name the world now knows ), that in that matter neither was innocent.
When Lizzie reads her aunt's letter were she revels everything Mr Darcy did for the sake of her family after the way she rejected him before, helping Lydia and restauring a little her family name, she crys and confesses to her sister Jane how unfair, proud, she had been with Mr Darcy.
Her self-estime was offended on the moment when, at the begining of the book, she heard Mr Darcy's remarke to Mr Bingle about her; from his behaviour that night she formed her bad opinion of him that his reclusive character didn´t help to correct. On the other hand, Mr Darcy was just childly reactin to his atraction for her.He liked her from the moment he saw and like a child wouid do he shown indiference and dislike, quite the opposite of his true feelings. He says so -- very badly!-- when he finally proposes to her.

Liz

It's first work of Jane Austen I've ever read. First six chapter took me a week to read it but the rest of novel took me just two days. It was so interesting. I can't wait to read her other works.

She could open women's characters very well. Mr.Bennet and mr.Collins is too well done. wahat about mr. Bingley and mr.Darcy I'm not so sure. Is there anyone like them in real?

There's so much truth in this part:
"It may perhaps be pleasant,'' replied Charlotte, ``to be able to impose on the public in such a case; but it is sometimes a disadvantage to be so very guarded. If a woman conceals her affection with the same skill from the object of it, she may lose the opportunity of fixing him; and it will then be but poor consolation to believe the world equally in the dark. There is so much of gratitude or vanity in almost every attachment, that it is not safe to leave any to itself. We can all begin freely -- a slight preference is natural enough; but there are very few of us who have heart enough to be really in love without encouragement. Bingley likes your sister undoubtedly; but he may never do more than like her, if she does not help him on.''

But should we really act like that? - In nine cases out of ten, a woman had better shew more affection than she feels.

hm. i never thought of it like that - showing more affection than one feels. why do you say that?

and Welcome to the forum!!! :)

Oh, thanks.

Actually it's part of Charlotte's speech. Sorry, it slipped away: "We can all begin freely -- a slight preference is natural enough; but there are very few of us who have heart enough to be really in love without encouragement. In nine cases out of ten, a woman had better shew more affection than she feels. Bingley likes your sister undoubtedly; but he may never do more than like her, if she does not help him on.''