:) I'm not crazy... that much ;):D... at least if I am, I'm not the only one ;).
Printable View
:) I'm not crazy... that much ;):D... at least if I am, I'm not the only one ;).
Wow, this thread has really taken off. Now I’ve gotta look up Verybadmom’s "linguistic relativity hypothesis,” as well as Shea’s “Great Vowel shift.”
You guys are right about the Military; it has a language of its own. And it’s mostly acronyms: “YGTBSM this SNAFU is FUBAR but who cares I’m FIGMO you know, ROADs baby.”
I wouldn’t be too hard soldiers who use language to rationalize their actions. After all, they’re asked to do some pretty unnatural things. As they say, “Politics and theory pretty much goes out the window when the first bullet zips by.”
While reading your last post amuse I started wondering why it is that some people whose parents grow up speaking a language to them other than the one in their civilization can often only understand that language but not speak it. Like my friends dad can only understand dutch, but can't speak it very well. Does this have anything to do with the relationship between language and thought or is it a barrier the person has put up themselves, thinking that it might not have been apropriate as a child to speak in their parents tongue and never growing out of it.
When I was learning to type properly, in my head I typed all my thoughts out. Thats almost like another languege.
what about dumb people? are they thoughtless?
That is similar to my dad. His mom was German, and his dad was always off somewhere with the army, so his brother and sister and he were mostly just with her. She was learning to speak English around the time my dad was starting kindergarten, and when she couldn't remember an English word she'd just use the German. My dad had to virtually relearn how to speak when he started school, because no one could understand him; even though he had lived in California his whole life, they spoke mostly German around the house. Years later he lived in Germany for a while when his dad was stationed there. He met my mom there when he was 18 (also an army brat), and even after all those years there were still times when he'd call something by its German name and be surprised when she didn't know what he was talking about, because he didn't know that wasn't the English word for it.Quote:
Originally posted by simon
While reading your last post amuse I started wondering why it is that some people whose parents grow up speaking a language to them other than the one in their civilization can often only understand that language but not speak it.
He tries from time to time to brush up on his German, but he can't remember much. He has trouble reading German too, but when a German person visits he can listen to them and understand every word. He just can't respond very well. I don't know what conclusion to draw -- why the speaking and reading is hard, but understanding verbal is still easy, -- but it just reminded me.
Oh, P.S. Once when he was a teenager his mom was talking about something (in English), then all of a sudden she stopped and said, "Oh my God, I was just thinking in English!" She thought it was so funny.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say, no, dumb people arn't thoughtless, however, thoughtless people are dumb. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by chispa
what about dumb people? are they thoughtless?
Seriously though, a brain thinks. Animals all think. Some have even proven the ability to reason and fashion tools. A mute (going to stop using dumb, so I don't confuse it with stupid) person should be able to reason like anyone else, they just cant put thier thoughts into an effective form of communication. Languege isn't about thought. Its about communication. If someone prefers a certain languege, its not because you can think deeper in one languege than another, its just that you can communicate those thoughts better.
What exactly is thought then?
I don't know because I'm not mute, but I sometimes think in images and memories rather than languege. Granted my images often have languege with them, but only because languege is part of my daily life. Also, if someone is mute, they may still know (and therefor think) in an audible languege unless they're also deaf. In which case you can still learn languege. Check out Hellen Keller. She was deaf and mute, and blind to boot, (that rhymed! I should be a rapper!!) and she managed to write a book. So I don't think you can limit thought to languege.
As for "What is thought?" People have been trying to figure that out for roughly 2500 years. I believe they're called philosophers. I don't think that any of them have a DEFINATE answer yet.
maybe thoughts are related with emotions and feelings and language is the need to express that
For lauguage or thought. Both of them. More than this. I believe, people was born with something special and magic. It's what I assmue we inherit from God's will and wisdom. And all the greatness lives in it.
Clearly both language and thought are "special" since we have the ability to use them while other creatures don't, but why?
Actually, that isn't true. The more scientists actually stop and listen to other creatures, the more about the languages of different species they learn. Dolphins, for instance, and to a lesser degree other species of whales; zoologists have discovered that they use different clicks and squeals to signify specific members of their pod -- names. And the latest discovery is that dolphins have an even more complex language -- possibly as complex as our own -- communicated via sonar, previously thought only to be used to locate food. They have found a way to record it in recognizable light patterns on a computer and are just beginning to record and decipher the tons of codes used by the dolphins. It is hoped that in the future we can reverse the process and actually speak to and hold conversations with the dolphins. This is not science fiction! It's real, how cool is that? Not to mention chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, elephants, giraffes -- all of which scientists have discovered have their own complex languages in the wild, completely unrelated to signs or behaviors taught them by human beings.
When it comes to different types of animals we seem to forget what we've concluded on this thread about different languages: that a different way of communicating does not mean one does not possess the power of thought. Just because we have used our thinking (and opposable thumbs) to create tools which have subdued and changed the face of the planet, does that mean that animals which don't build skyscrapers don't think as much as we do? We don't know yet, because until recently we have been too arrogant to make the effort to find out.
I wonder what kinds of deep thinkers and philosophers the dolphins have.
Not Flipper, that's for sure. *coughjockcough*