A Theatre for Spenserians

I have often imagined which great artists might be the best to illuminate the works of a great writer... or vis-versa. I agree with your equation of Rembrandt with Shakespeare. To my mind the both have the unequalled ability at inventing human characters that convey such a depth of feeling/emotion that they seem to live beyond the confines of the art work that gives them form. To this I would also need to add Rubens with his mastery of drama, narrative, sensuality and theater. Milton, on the other hand, I imagine (much to his dismay, no doubt) as best illuminated by the works of two great Catholics: Michelangelo and Velazquez. He conveys a definite hard muscularity which I feel would contradict Rubens far more sensuous joyfulness. Indeed... Milton's sensuality hewn in marble (as it were) might be even better illuminated by a far later artist such as Ingres! Spencer, on the other hand... Yes... there are elements that remind me of Botticelli... I think also of paolo Uccello's heraldic "Battle of San Romano"... but as you say... all mere speculation.

Now which writer is Mozart? :brow:

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

Milton, on the other hand, I imagine (much to his dismay, no doubt) as best illuminated by the works of two great Catholics: Michelangelo and Velazquez.

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Much to his dismay indeed :lol: , though I see what you mean.

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Indeed... Milton's sensuality hewn in marble (as it were) might be even better illuminated by a far later artist such as Ingres!

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Hmm. Ingres might be intesting illustrating Milton. I'm not sure how he'd be with the Satan scenes and the battle in heaven though. I think we'd need to get Michelangelo in for that. :)

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Spencer, on the other hand... Yes... there are elements that remind me of Botticelli... I think also of paolo Uccello's heraldic "Battle of San Romano"... but as you say... all mere speculation.

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I think you've hit it on the head with the Uccello. I've thought of the "Battle of San Romano" in relation to Spenser before too, but it kept escaping my mind when I was trying to think yesterday of an example for the sort of style I saw FQ in. If I did a film of FQ I think I'd want it to have something of the visual style of the "Battle of San Romano" panels.

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Now which writer is Mozart?

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That's a tough one. I always think of Mozart as beyond compare. I don't know that I can think of a writer off the top of my head, but I've always somehow associated Vermeer with Mozart. They both have a similar clarity and complex simplicity to their work and a purity of form mixed with a joy in life and a sense of humour and laughter. Now you've got me thinking what Bach would look like on canvas. :D

Stlukesguild, I can't really help you with Gongora translations into English, I've only read him in Spanish. I will definitely let you know if I find something though :)

You're right about Cervantes too. There're certain elements that seem to evoke the literary and artistic trends of a period later than Renaissance (e.g. his irony), and that is only logical if you think about the time when he wrote. However, in comparison to the Spanish writers "typically" considered to reflect the Spanish Baroque, he's generally considered more of a Renaissance man.

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Originally Posted by Petrarch's Love

Hyacinth--I also like the Amoretti 54 you shared with us. Thanks for posting it. :) Other favorites of mine from the sequence are these two. In the second one the lady wittily replies to his conceit in the first of the pair (highly uncharacteristic of most sonnet sequences in which the lady is silent and admired from afar), and I love the sense of a dialogue happening between them.

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Thanks for the sonnets PL - sorry I am so long in responding. I was away on vacation. I also think the evident dialogue between the lovers is a novel inclusion. In my personal opinion, it gives the reader a sense of intimacy that other sequences don't have - we begin to see WHY the lady is beloved besides her physical features or qualities as viewed (or imagined) by the sonneteer. It makes one wonder what other women would have said to the poets that loved them! :lol:

Hi there Hyacinth. Hope you had a good vacation. :) Welcome back to Spenserville. I agree that it would be great to find a long lost group of sonnets written by Laura in response to Petrarch or Stella right back at Astrophil. :lol:

Since Spenser is one of my favorite English poets, I just had to chime in. Unfortunately, I'm by no means a Spenserian, and I don't have anything insightful to add.

I agree that while the archaic language is difficult at first, it doesn't take long to get used to. In fact, I really enjoyed getting familiar with the peculiarities; it was kind of like getting to know a new friend with a unique way of speaking.

My favorite so far is the Shepherd's Calendar. I really enjoyed the variety and invention.

There was some discussion about introducing students to Spenser. Perhaps my own experience from a non-expert perspective can be helpful. I would never have enjoyed Spenser until I learned to appreciate the formal aspects of poetry. Whenever I studied poetry in any English or literature class, 'meaning' was emphasized so much that form was all but neglected (looking back in my notes, I can see that form was covered, but trivialized). I didn't learn to appreciate form until I audited a class on Prometheus Bound which spent a lot of time scanning lines. If my experience is typical, undergraduates coming from American (or maybe just Californian) high schools don't really have an appreciation of the beauty of poetic form. In my opinion, this is very important for the appreciation of Spenser.

Though I hate to jump in on conversation of Spenser enthusiasts, of which I know so little. I'd really love to get an introduction to The Faerie Queen, unfortunately I don't have the time to read it in it's full original English, though I'd really like to. I thought this is the best place to ask if anyone knows of the best modernized version available. I have done some searching and haven't found any that really works.

Hi Dark Faerie:

Thanks for resurrecting this thread. I'm afraid there really isn't a good modernized version of the Faerie Queene out there. In post #26 on page two fo this thread (http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&postcount=26) I made a stab at trying to give some resources for better understanding Spenser's language. There's also a link to a plot summary online in that post, though I warn you that the summary is not going to give you anything near the experience of Spenser's original. It might help to read something like that along with the original though, so that you know what's going on and don't have to worry as much about keeping track of the plot and dealing with the language of the poetry at the same time.

One piece of advice would be not to start out trying to read the whole Faerie Queene, which can look quite daunting in its entirety. I'd definitely start by aiming to read book one and then move on from there. There are two editions I would recommend for reading book one, both of which have very helpful same page notes, introductory essays, and other helpful resources. One is the Norton Critical Edition of Edmund Spenser's Poetry. It contains books one and three in their entirety, and highlights from the rest as well as some of Spenser's other poetry.

Another recent edition of the Faerie Queene has put each of the books out in seperate, easier to digest, paperback volumes. The publisher is Hackett, and the editor for the book one volume is Carol V. Kaske. This edition also has a brief glossary of terms that may be helpful to someone struggling with the archaisms. I'm not sure how readily available this edition is yet, though since I got an early copy as a college instructor. You'd have to poke around online.

If you do decide to try reading the Faerie Queene, feel free to come here with any questions or thoughts you may have (no matter how small or large), and I'll be more than happy to help. :)

Wow... thank you for your time Petrarch's Love, I really appreciate it! I actually came to the conclusion myself after a little research of there not being any worth while modernized version. So I did decide to read the original Early Modern English. I just chose to read Book I and depending on how that goes Book III, (at some other point I'd like to read them all, probably not until college though!)

I just started reading the version I already had at home but I'll definitely keep in mind the Norton Critical edition that you mentioned for the future (I really enjoyed their version of Utopia)
Thank you again for your help!

No problem, Dark Faerie. Glad you're diving in to book one. You definitely have the right idea with doing books 1&3. Not even in college yet, and motivated to read the Faerie Queene? That's always good to hear. :) As I say, if you have any questions or comments as you read along, I'd be happy to discuss. Happy reading!

I'm about half way through the first book. The basic storyline and some of the references I definitely understand. I find Spenser's language very lovely, it's fun to read out loud, it just has such a nice sound to it! Your post on understanding Spenser's language I found helpful in clearing some things up. I was confused that The Faerie Queene felt harder to read than some of his contemporaries that I had read before and had no trouble reading. But now that makes much more sense.

Hi Dark Faerie, lovely to hear back from you. I'm glad you're getting into the FQ and that you seem to be enjoying it. Also glad that my post on Spenser's language could help. I've always found it slightly ironic that the language is always what puts people off Spenser, since (as you seem to have discovered) the language is actually a large part of the pleasure in reading Spenser once you get into it. I completely agree with you about the sound of his poetry. It is fun to read out loud. :) Any favorite bits so far? Hope you continue to enjoy as you read on. Lot's of great stuff to come.

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Originally Posted by ~*Dark Faerie*~

Though I hate to jump in on conversation of Spenser enthusiasts, of which I know so little. I'd really love to get an introduction to The Faerie Queen, unfortunately I don't have the time to read it in it's full original English, though I'd really like to. I thought this is the best place to ask if anyone knows of the best modernized version available. I have done some searching and haven't found any that really works.

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Hi Dark Faerie,
I'm studying Spenser myself this year and I found the following books particularly helpful as introductions, that can be read with/without the text:
Freeman, Rosemary. The Faerie Queene: A Companion for Readers. London: Chatto and Windus, 1970.
Bayley, Peter. Ed. Casebook Series: The Faerie Queene. London: Macmillan, 1977.
Hope this is of some help for you. I must say that Spenser is difficult and intimidating to begin with, but [I]The Faerie Queene[I] is a wonderful poem and benefits much re-reading. I also agree that reading out loud often helps on the first run through.

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Originally Posted by Petrarch's Love

Hi Dark Faerie, lovely to hear back from you. I'm glad you're getting into the FQ and that you seem to be enjoying it. Also glad that my post on Spenser's language could help. I've always found it slightly ironic that the language is always what puts people off Spenser, since (as you seem to have discovered) the language is actually a large part of the pleasure in reading Spenser once you get into it. I completely agree with you about the sound of his poetry. It is fun to read out loud. :) Any favorite bits so far? Hope you continue to enjoy as you read on. Lot's of great stuff to come.

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I finished Book I, so know I'm starting in on Book III. I hope I'll enjoy it as much as Book I. Hmm favorite parts... I'm not sure I really have a favorite. I liked the end of Book I because it was not such a classic end (i.e. not "Ever After") instead there's still duty that lies ahead for the Redcrosse Knight but at the same time a future with Una too. Does that make any sense? The lion representing "pure nature" I found really interesting too. The contrast between the House of Pride and the House of Holiness I also liked.

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Originally Posted by Behemoth

Hi Dark Faerie,
I'm studying Spenser myself this year and I found the following books particularly helpful as introductions, that can be read with/without the text:
Freeman, Rosemary. The Faerie Queene: A Companion for Readers. London: Chatto and Windus, 1970.
Bayley, Peter. Ed. Casebook Series: The Faerie Queene. London: Macmillan, 1977.
Hope this is of some help for you. I must say that Spenser is difficult and intimidating to begin with, but [I]The Faerie Queene[I] is a wonderful poem and benefits much re-reading. I also agree that reading out loud often helps on the first run through.

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Hmm I'll look into that, thanks! Spenser is probably one of the hardest things I've ever read. I'd really like to read it again in the future. Hopefully all the way through! Plus I'd really like to stumble across one of the minor characters (I think in Book 6) Briana, which is where my name comes from.