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here's a thought:
*Satan is the kettle and the pot is calling him black.*
It's all nice and all to speak of things, but we all know the pot is the one who's doing all the speaking. The kettle barely gets a chance to put a word in.
Not that I care to be the devil's advocate, but it all seems a bit one sides to me.
Here are a few theories:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufioag
Satan is so blinded that he thinks he can win.
He knows he is defeated (by Christ) and wants as many people as possible to share in his punishment, which is, I think, literal.
He attacks us, because God loves us very much, and it hurts God when we follow Satan. This is his way to attack God.
Green Lady-I hope I answered your question on Lucifer.
Shield&Sword- all I meant was, it might help if you proof read your posts. sorry. BTW, what does pbuh stand for?
oh, BTW, there is no question about whether or not Satan attacks people, and wants them to follow him. He does want to be king, you know. Consider this passage, it is one of my favorites.
Ephesians 6:10-18
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by water lily
I'm mormon actually. And I do believe evil existed before Satan. Evil is simply an absence of goodness like darkness is an absence of light. Lucifer had lost the goodness in his life and replaced it with pride.
Pbuh mean Peace be upon him. We muslims say this phrase after mentioning a prophet name like Muhammed or Adam or Muses or Jesus, we say it for respect.
When Allah t ordered angeles and Satan to bow down to Adam pbuh it wasnt praying to him or showing any other type of worship to Adam pbuh, it was an order from Allah t to his creatures to do something, but Satan refused to bow down saying i am better than him you created me from fire and you created him from dust. They werent ordered to worship Adam pbuh but to bow down showing respect and acting as Allah wants. Allah said bow down didnt say worship him and they bowed down acting as Allah said (only the act of bowing down was done nothing else).
Nightshade dont remember the story that you said well, and its not in Hoy Quran can you please get the Hadeeth complete with the chain of narraiters and the book from where you got it.
No offence Rufioag, its ok, only ask and will be happy to respond, i enjoy discussing with you.
Well, the devil is a hard one to get contact of. But his reputation with the majority of the world wouldn't make me want to trust anything he said if I did manage to have a one on one conversation with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by AimusSage
See, that's exactly what I mean, it's all hear say!Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Lady
What do you believe is the truth then, if I may ask? This is actually quite an interesting and probably dangerous thought.
I'm an atheist, however, I have been brought up as a christian, and am familiar with the bible etc. I do not believe there is a thruth in this. But for the sake of this discussion, let's assume I'm not an atheist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Lady
My point would be that the portrayal of Satan has always been one sided. All references are made by people who worship Satan's enemy. Do you think it is in God's interest to have Satan portrayed in a positive light? Perhaps Satan was the voice of reason for God? Perhaps he was the opposite of the balance for God. When God casted him out of heaven, maybe the balance was lost, and shifted towards God to much, causing Him to loose sight. There are countles possibilities, but no way of knowing for sure, history afterall is written by the victor.
On a side-note there is nowadays an official Satanic Church. Maybe he is finally being heard.
Finally, I do not mean to say that God isn't 'good' and Satan isn't 'evil', I'm saying that there is reasonable doubt that things might not be as they are made out to be. For all I know, Satan might be good and God may be evil, but we are led to believe it is the opposite.
That's a very interesting argument. It's difficult to flip your perspective of such a prominent belief. I think the safest thing to do is not give them names. There is good and there is the not good. I don't really want to say evil anymore. So long as what you're doing is good, I think people will be safe.
But who defines what is good and what is not good? what to one is good, might not be good to another. Everyone has their own moral compass, and while in the western culture Christianity is what predominantly determines the north, in other cultures it is a different religion. All these religions might have a lot in common, but also many differences. This does not mean one religion is good and the other is not good, all it means is that they are different.
One of the things about the christian history is that the religion incorporates many things from Pagan belief systems etc. Why would they do that if their religion was the only true one? Wouldn't the 'barbarians' convert from their pagan ways on their own accord? Christmas is the best example. It's the most important Christian celebration, but has pagan roots. The christmas tree being the most prominent left over. This is all an effort to have the 'barbarians' accept christianity. This is how Christianity spreads; it adapts. That is why even today the way you practice your belief can vary greatly, but it is still Christianity. This is not the only way how religions can spread, but I think it is the reason why nowadays Christianity has the largest number of adherents.
But are all Christians good, (with the odd exception) because they are with so many? They are, and they're not. Viewed from within their beliefs, these people would be considered good, but there sense of good will clash with what is good for another religion, for example the Islam. I will not get further into this, since it is a subject that has been done to death already, but I'm sure you get the point.
RJ, my little Piglet, I am going to say this as a friend, for as I said before, I am not The Adversary. Let us never forget that Satan is The Adversary and Satan your enemy.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJbibliophil
To many people on this forum, English is a second or even third language. Many also suffer from dyslexia, I do myself, which means I misspell words at times and I am a writer whose work is published on a somewhat regular basis on the web or in magazines. The above post is a little bit insulting, don't you think? Can you really see Christ saying that to someone? Read James 3:1-10.
And as I have said before think before you speak and then think again. God bless. :angel:
perhaps he/she was acting as in Luke 24:25.
Glad to see you have an opinion on the matter!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield&Sword
Well worded PenDragon.Quote:
And as I have said before think before you speak and then think again. God bless.
Chin up now, RJ! God bless.
Well this matter consern me from the begining, such words were said to me, really a person raised with a language never say to another one who doesnt know the language well ( in my case its 4th language, i speak 3 languages because i was raised with these 3 languages, but english i learned it from school and from reading things from here and there) its little bit, dont know what made him/her angry that much.
But I am glad that you are glad.