What is love?

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Originally Posted by Aragorn

I try not to blame her. She is one year older than me, which means she is graduating this semester and i will be one years later. maybe this is not a very big deal in western countries. but i think this is in china. China is going crazy, with all the development and reform. everybody is looking for money.
our religion, is no longer Confucianism or buddhism. Maybe they are still dominant in our living style. But the thought pattern changed, the philosophy changed, the attitude changed. now, money is the only thing that matters. not only the business men are making money, but doctors, professors, teacher, scientists as well. everybody.
However, not everybody has a fair chance. you have chane to struggle for your fortune, yet some many people don't even have to make money. they just use authority to get money.
as the disparity between the poor the the rich intensifies. the children of the poor are still poor, cause they can not afford education. And they can not get free meal like the rich's children. if you see a modern woman driveing a BMW, you will probably want, before i can get a job in Merril Lynch, the fastest way to have a BMW ofr my girl friend, ex-girl friend, is to marry a rich man, or you don't even need to marry him, if you know what i mean. these kinds of things are going on like cazy in Chinese universities.
Once, a friend of mine, who is half chinese, half American and born in Germany, asked me why in china all the agly men can get all the pretty girls. my answer was, unfortunately, some agly men happen to be rich men.
hope my country will be better off.
Pray we can be rich both materialistically and spiritrually.
My English is not as good as your guys'. If you don't understand me on some points, just treat them as jokes.
world peace. No starvation. no war between Iran and USA. no between mainland China and Taiwan. No war between China and Japan. no war between Israel and Palestine. pray.

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I don't agree with you at all, Aragorn.
One truth prevails: the allurement of material things (money, electric products ...) do not only apply to some of our people-only if you look beyond the surface, knowing that roots in human nature, and study other nations, especially those who have practiced capitalism for centuries, for you to see what is going on there(we have evidence here).
Unblamable is that our denizens make more money under the economic reform in the latest decades, all to improve living conditions when some social problems emerge which is inevitable.
"Ugly" but "rich" men do not always win "pretty girls", if poor intelligence of the men, and beautiful heart of the girls. Blessed is that many Chinese girls still radiate the Wang Zhaojun-like courage, and the Lin Daiyu-like wit.
Our traditions still play an important role in our daily life, in spite of those a few, the vacant and shortsighted, who fall unconsciously, in pursuit of fickle things, but the cultural and philosophical heritage shape our way of thinking inconspicuously(the conception of loyalty, etc.).
Complains do not make a country better, and I've heard many from my friends as well as teachers from western hemisphere too.
I personally tend to think that there will be a war between China Mainland and Taiwan, very likely.

"We come to love not by finding the perfect person; but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly" Well....i didnt say that...Sam Keene did!

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Originally Posted by Honey_Ryder62

Love is like God, it only exisits if you believe it exists and you will only find it when you are not ready for it.

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if god doesn't exist, there is not need to create it.

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Originally Posted by white camellia

"Ugly" but "rich" men do not always win "pretty girls", if poor intelligence of the men, and beautiful heart of the girls. Blessed is that many Chinese girls still radiate the Wang Zhaojun-like courage, and the Lin Daiyu-like wit.

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i have never been to chengdu, so i keep my mouth shut about the situation there. but for the regions along the coast, i am sure of three things:
first, in china, most rich men are not intelligent. their money is earned by dirty means. most of them are ugly, barefaced, shallow-hearted,and narrow-minded, and always trying to find some tweenkie girls. Wives and kids they have; loyelty and reponsibility they haven't.
Secondly, even maybe some of the rich guys are intelligent, but the girls are not throwing themslves to the rich's beds to find intelligence. knowing those guys iare as old as their fathers, and has families and everything, you would believe that the girls are looking for something of high spiritual level? are you kidding me?
The third, many Chinese girls still radiate the Wang Zhaojun-like courage, and the Lin Daiyu-like wit???? can you just give me one example, from the people that we both know, like movie stars or writers......


"Complains do not make a country better, and I've heard many from my friends as well as teachers from western hemisphere too."
i am not complaining, i am just disappointed, not just by my girl friend, but by everything here.

Our traditions still play an important role in our daily life, in spite of those a few, the vacant and shortsighted, who fall unconsciously, in pursuit of fickle things, but the cultural and philosophical heritage shape our way of thinking inconspicuously(the conception of loyalty, etc.).

i dont think so. but i dont have enough time to argue with you tonight. going to study.
still, nice hearing your opinions.

Lu Xun once said, true intellectuals are always disappointed, because they are always unsatisafied, they want things better.
i just want things better like you do, white camelia.
but in my opinion, china has heard enough praise nowadays, i will not add any more.
i think we are blinded by the economic achievements. Man, time will not go back. we have only one chance. what if we are in a wrong way? what if the results are irredeemable? we have but one chance. and out there billions of people are suffering. man, maybe you are a beneficiary of the reform and openness. but some are not.
do not judge too soon. think about it, we have just one chance. no one wants to screw it up. i am concerned about motherland, but i dont want to say sweet words no more.
you are so sure that the path we are oursuing is the right one? well maybe you are sure, but some are not. i am not sure. that's why i choose economics as my major. i want to make sure things are getting better, not worse, and not for short term, but in long term, not for a special previliged group, but for the majority.
maybe we can catch up with the developed countries economically, but culturally it's much and much hard.

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Originally Posted by jackyyyy

Don't be confused.. its the curse of the richman to be straddled with such a fickle minded woman.. and a blessing to the poorman that he is left to move along and meet the right one. She ain't worth a ball bearing on that BMW. My humble advice because I don't know what love is.. don't go looking for it, it will find you.

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Ai, true love is not a beast that can be hunted, it will be found only when you are not looking for it.

love is too deep to describe in words because words can never come close to the dept of thoughts of emotions. LOve is the emotion that can only be pure when two people encounter a real commited friendship. Its not easy nor is it hard. It is the essentials to life. Therefore, don't force yourself to love (verb) or pressure your true self to love (noun).

Thats my philosophy of love from my experience.

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Originally Posted by white camellia

I don't agree with you at all, Aragorn.
One truth prevails: the allurement of material things (money, electric products ...) do not only apply to some of our people-only if you look beyond the surface, knowing that roots in human nature, and study other nations, especially those who have practiced capitalism for centuries, for you to see what is going on there(we have evidence here).
Unblamable is that our denizens make more money under the economic reform in the latest decades, all to improve living conditions when some social problems emerge which is inevitable.
"Ugly" but "rich" men do not always win "pretty girls", if poor intelligence of the men, and beautiful heart of the girls. Blessed is that many Chinese girls still radiate the Wang Zhaojun-like courage, and the Lin Daiyu-like wit.
Our traditions still play an important role in our daily life, in spite of those a few, the vacant and shortsighted, who fall unconsciously, in pursuit of fickle things, but the cultural and philosophical heritage shape our way of thinking inconspicuously(the conception of loyalty, etc.).
Complains do not make a country better, and I've heard many from my friends as well as teachers from western hemisphere too.
I personally tend to think that there will be a war between China Mainland and Taiwan, very likely.

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I was wondering what your opinion would be, white camellia.

I'm not sure it's relevant to say that complaints don't make a country better, or true. They may be the beginning of taking some kind of action to improve things. On the whole though, does it matter? If you get dumped by someone - especially over something as crass as a BMW - or your country seems to be going to hell in a handbasket, the first thing you want to do is just say you feel bad about it.

This is a very interesting thread - and not because of the old 'what is love' question.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn

knowing those guys iare as old as their fathers, and has families and everything, you would believe that the girls are looking for something of high spiritual level? are you kidding me?
The third, many Chinese girls still radiate the Wang Zhaojun-like courage, and the Lin Daiyu-like wit???? can you just give me one example, from the people that we both know, like movie stars or writers......Lu Xun once said, true intellectuals are always disappointed, because they are always unsatisafied, they want things better.

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Yes, I believe. From myself, and some others like me. That one girl betrayed you does not mean that another would. The old-fashioned one is still living undiscovered...I don't think I need to exemplify an argument here to support my belief in Chinese girls, or spiritual women as they do exist mostly as nameless who are living their own lives, not for fame. Writers tend to have a better intelligence, but not those kind of writers who merely dangle among readers' appetites, and for sheer commercial profit. Lu Xun also said "Either aroused in silence, or extinguished". Complainers do not make a better country, practitioners do.

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Originally Posted by blp

I was wondering what your opinion would be, white camellia.

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About what is love?
Actually, I've just begun to learn what is love and how to love as well as be loved in return since a year ago-my first time ever so close to true love, and in the hope that my last time.
I just found the first line from Contessa's opinion about love exactly express me, and I am inspired to say: I would love to live with my precious in a cave on 'Mountain Delectable' if he needs me to, or we need to.
It's been almost 3am here, and I haven't slept for a mini-second. How ruthless the time is that it goes so fast at notice that I'll have to get up for my morning class at 6am soon!
So I quit here, for now.

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Originally Posted by white camellia

Yes, I believe. From myself, and some others like me. That one girl betrayed you does not mean that another would. The old-fashioned one is still living undiscovered...I don't think I need to exemplify an argument here to support my belief in Chinese girls, or spiritual women as they do exist mostly as nameless who are living their own lives, not for fame. Writers tend to have a better intelligence, but not those kind of writers who merely dangle among readers' appetites, and for sheer commercial profit. Lu Xun also said "Either aroused in silence, or extinguished". Complainers do not make a better country, practitioners do.

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so practitioner means one has to admit that everything in China is right?
in my university, beijing foreign studies university, i have a very vivid experience about chinese girls. on friday evening and monday morning, you can see a long line of fancy cars on campus, and they drive fast than wind. on friday evening, they come and pick up girls, and on monday morning, at 6to 8 oclock, they drive the girls back.
our university is so-called beauty university, and several universities around here, like dance academy and art academy witness the same drama.
i am talking about the majority. if there is one girl doing this, no big deal. hewever, there are hundreds doing this while they are still in university. you wanna ask me to admit this is a good thing stimultated by economic success?
yes, there are good girl, a lot. but, what i am talking about is the atmosphere is so rotten and corrupted, even universites, such a pure place can not escape, that is an issue that needs the country's attention.
doubtful......
either arouse in silence, or extinguish, yes, that's why i am so angry. hehe.
my opinion is no more putting economics first.

you guys wanna here something ironic? 'that girl' came back a few days ago and apologized. She cried and everything, begging me to take her back. i dont know what to say.............................................

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Originally Posted by white camellia

About what is love?
Actually, I've just begun to learn what is love and how to love as well as be loved in return since a year ago-my first time ever so close to true love, and in the hope that my last time.
I just found the first line from Contessa's opinion about love exactly express me, and I am inspired to say: I would love to live with my precious in a cave on 'Mountain Delectable' if he needs me to, or we need to.
It's been almost 3am here, and I haven't slept for a mini-second. How ruthless the time is that it goes so fast at notice that I'll have to get up for my morning class at 6am soon!
So I quit here, for now.

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Well actually, I meant I'd been curious to know how you were going to respond to what was being said about China and Chinese women. Somehow I can't imagine you dumping someone over a BMW or demanding the best table in a restaurant.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn

you guys wanna here something ironic? 'that girl' came back a few days ago and apologized. She cried and everything, begging me to take her back. i dont know what to say.............................................

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Maybe ask her if she realises you still don't have a BMW.

I did not say that Every Chinese Girl deserves our respect, some do get lost in material things, such as BMW that I don't behold valuable if procured at the cost of love and one's truth.
I've heard of those scandals in some foreign language institutions long ago and I don't consider it virtuous and wise. Women should appreciate themselves. But, they are not the only ones to blame. Though this is indeed a phenomenon at some localities, but that cannot represent the whole. How many such lost women compared to the whole at one institution, how many foreign institutions compared to the overall universities, and how many females in those institutions compared to all others in every universities? You can consider then the minority and the majority.
I did not say that everything is going on right here, not here, not everywhere on earth.
I do feel sorry for those who are betrayed once or twice by their ex-girlfriends, or ex-boyfriends, but is not this a very personal thing to grieve or complain on your own? Better not make any victims here.

agree with that the girls are the victims to blame.
as i already mentioned, i dont blame anyone. i didn't become cynical for that. and i do think economic growth is a good thing.
but, still, i think the phenomenon in those universities do reflect some problem. they are perhaps a small fraction compared tp all the chinese people. yet as far as i am concerned, this aspect revealed a quite serious problem. chinese proverb: an immense dam can collapse because of a small ant cave. right?
in fact, there are so many problems here, which make me think we are just on a broken rocket. although it is soaring to the sky, but some day in the future, it is gonna fall to the ground, heavily.
this is my anxiety.

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Originally Posted by white camellia

is not this a very personal thing to grieve or complain on your own? Better not make any victims here.

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if you read though all my posts, you can see that
i was definitely not complaining. everyone has hie/her own choices............
blaming no one.
truth, justice, peace, i seek.
anger, lust, grreedy, i disdain.
there maybe no war between mainland and taiwan.
or at least, i hope so.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Find an old fashion girl who will appreciate you.

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A very good suggestion! ;)

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Originally Posted by Aragorn

China is going crazy, with all the development and reform. everybody is looking for money.
our religion, is no longer Confucianism or buddhism. Maybe they are still dominant in our living style. But the thought pattern changed, the philosophy changed, the attitude changed. now, money is the only thing that matters. not only the business men are making money, but doctors, professors, teacher, scientists as well. everybody.

they are perhaps a small fraction compared tp all the chinese people.

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do not be so absolute, that may not lead you closer to the truth

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Originally Posted by Honey_Ryder62

Love is like God, it only exisits if you believe it exists and you will only find it when you are not ready for it.

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so i don't believe in love because i don't believe in love? or viceversa? :confused: :D

as for finding it when you are ready or not, rules on that are the biggest kind of bullsh*t that can be said.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn

hope my country will be better off.
Pray we can be rich both materialistically and spiritrually.

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Most people are still nice ones. If they seemed not, we may infer that they are misguided, and lost.
"China is going crazy"-Can we simply conclude it with a word like "crazy"? Those spreading diseases here concern us all. Some place is indeed in turmoil to some extent, even an upheaval across the nation; then collapse? and get reborn in the end, but in another social form that can fit the development of productivity? Actually, this period of our great nation just reminds me of those days when our people were striving for a revival in the earliest decades of last century.
Which can really save human, Fascism, Capitalism or Communism? A communist should have faith in Communism.

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Originally Posted by white camellia

Which can really save human, Fascism, Capitalism or Communism? A communist should have faith in Communism.

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i am definitely no communist. the road to serfdom [B] by Hayek destroyed my last straw of hope in communism.

no matter which is good for our country, i will try to find it, though yet i still have absolutely no idea. and i do think china is going too far on the track. it is the high time to slow down and think about what we are doing. in this year's NPC meeting premier Weh Jiabao said the growth rate of GDP will be slowed to 7% in next 5 years, which i take as a good sign. i am worried if this situation is not handled tactfully, the high-speed train of china would go off track in future.
the growth of economy relies to much on extensive investment. and we do rank the 194th in medical care system among a total 198 countries. and the disparity between rich and poor ranks 166. the corruption problem rank 179; the pollution problem ranks 181. with a 4th ranked economy, this is appalling.
and many other issues, no need and impossible to list them all.
you seem to be so optimistic, well i am not. there are nice peoplein china. and that's good. but that's none of my business. my job is to make a difference to the situation that yet i am not totally satisfied.
i dont know what to do yet; what i do know is something has to be done, either bu you or by me or by any other people, to ensure those 0.2billion people who are still living under 1 dollor a day will have a teeny tiny hope for their future......
i am not complaining; i want to identify the problem, find its cause, and give resolution, which i still lack the knowledge to do.