um ah...just want to exist!!!sorry!!
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um ah...just want to exist!!!sorry!!
Is this in response to my last post? If so, could you please explain why you suggest that such views as mine are not permitting you to exist? I want to exist, too (most of the time). And I would like to exist in an environment that is free from all forms of religious dogma. I do not have any problem with faith. All I can really do is recognise it but when it is used as an ideological weapon, I think it requires very close scrutiny as much as respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiny explorer
Don’t forget that I am a non-believer who has been told precisely what will happen to me according to one of the religions represented above:
Quote:
Those who die as kafir (people commiting shirk) will spend their eternity in hell.
I'm with you! But comments like those give people like us a bad name. Offering blanket statements with no evidence whatsoever to back them up.... If too many teachers were like that, no wonder they pulled creation out of schools. Of course, I've heard plenty of people from the other side make equally awful statements, but they have the advantage of having the majority of the scientific community agree with you!
mrslizzydarcy,
Is this in response to my post? :confused:
Uh-Oh, I knew it, things are going to get more twisted :lol: What's a dogma anyway?
A carniverous canine quadriped - and don't call me Ma - I'm not your mother - we've been through this before! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by woeful painter
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Nice one! Nice one!
Amra, if you point me to the nearest mosque -- for scientific truth no less -- I'd have to point you in any direction that doesn't encourage flight up one's own backside.
Unamable,
If you told me, based on your atheistic belief, that after I die, that would be the end of it all, should I get mad at you? :D I just don't understand why you are upset about my beliefs? Why do you care what I believe will happen to you after you die, when you yourself believe that death is the end of it all? I don't care what you believe will happen to me after I die, nor do I start pathetic "arguments" trying to portray myself as a victim of your belief. I could believe that you would be a tree after you die, why would you care?
xamonas chegwe,
You don't this is an infantile, simplified portrayal of religious beliefs? My post about evolution was simply an answer to this statement that, if we wanted be unfair, and stay ignorant, could use to portray evolution as a failed theory. I merely used the same principle that you used to prove that things are not that black and white, and that both theories/beliefs are much more complex than we have here portrayed. Neither science nor theology have ever proven or disproven God in the way that would make both sides satisfied, and you might claim that science will eventually be able to do just that, when the time comes, but that argumet can be used both ways as well. My only point was that you cannot oversimplify things, and that if you choose to do that for one side, than don't be suprised when the other side does the same thing. I read an article recently about the scientific research regarding creation of the universe, and how it confirmed the theory of the Big Bang, which would mean that the universe was created in a split of second. This finding is not aligned with evolution theachings, as evolution is a long-term process in which things adapt/change/happen over a period of time. Big Bang is more supportive of the creationist view in which the universe was created in one single moment...Quote:
All you have is a book that says that God 'spoke' it all into existence - forgive me for finding that somewhat less convincing.
Not sure exactly what it is that some of you IDers are trying to accomplish; either that or I am and I continue to be disgusted with the meager attempts of a callous few to flex thier biblical muscles in vain attempts to push aside any views incongruent with thier own. Not surprised, though.
Fact is, our dna is all really quite similar and some of you dont want to believe or dont want anyone else to. Too bad. You lose.
I find no reason on disgussing science with people who will never show any interest in entertaining ideas that dont support thier own sheltered belief systems. Some of you are blatantly attempting to mislead some of the "flock" so as to further your own selfish ambitions, and dont deserve to be recognised.
Ive made numerous statements that are scientific and emotional and are there for your review, should any of you be interested.
My main initiative here is to speak for those who cannot speak, either of a different species, or are dead.
ID has no place in science classes and fortunately has been demonstrated. There is no debate.
Erecting "man" at the top of the food chain in a position where all the earths precious resources are available only to man to use by theological right is as ridiculous as are statements that claim the earth to be of of devine creation as stated in the King James version.
What is really at issue is the responsibility of a few people (parents) to fight tooth and nail to prove a moot point while ignoring that the earth is being destroyed by greedy malcntents about the dangers of deforestations and proliferation of the combustion fuels to certain destruction of our envrionment that we all share. Those of you who dont have kids cant be expected to understand.
No jobs on a dead planet.
SO
if you want to read the bible, go ahead, but
if you want to try pushing antiquated thought on innocent children in science class,
youve got me to deal with.
and im not alone.
Fight global warming
not each other
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Jollyollie, I have to say that you don't sound too jolly to me. Anyway, what would you have to say against Christian evolutionists who believe the same way you do with regard to science? There could be a God who uses evolution as His creative apparatus. What real argument do you have to present against this besides an ardent disagreement? Understand that I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I really want to know. My scientific beliefs are probably obviously the same as yours on many points. And while I also don't see man as the top of the food chain (aside: I'm at loss in knowing someone who does), man is the only intelligent species on earth (a fact all the scientific community concurs with). I even believe there may be other intelligent beings out in space (the Bible never makes mention of these, but the Bible wasn't intended to). I guess what I am trying to find out is whether you have a natural bias towards anyone who happens to believe in God and the Bible notwithstanding a belief system identical to yours (saving God and the Bible obviously). I don't see the two as irreconcilable. I too have also written my own expositions above if you would care to read them (these may even be the ones you're making an argumentative reference to above). I have a doctorate in Chemistry with an emphasis in physical chemistry (application of physics to chemistry on the atomic and subatomic level), have done post-doc work and research in cosmology and geology (the application of chemistry to both is crucial) and I must say, I have never run into any problem with what the Bible proposes provided that one reads it correctly (I can see you cringing at this sentence, but I would be more than happy to elucidate on the matter). Now, because I am a scientist, I would like to hear a substantiated argument based on logic and any works from the scientific enterprise (maybe I have missed something of note along the way). But please, please, please keep it free of barbs and heady invectives spawned from any natural aversion to Christendom and its practice. As a fellow servant of science, I think you will understand why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xamonas Chegwe
Amra,Quote:
Originally Posted by Amra
I think you'll find that that is an extremely accurate summary of the biblical creation myth. If it is infantile and simplified then so are the statements from which it was summarised:
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."
etc.
Your ridiculous allegation that the big bang theory contradicts evolution demonstrates that you have only the most rudimentary idea of scientific concepts. The big bang describes events over 13 billion years ago, before there was even matter let alone life.
As has been pointed out many times, you dismiss scientific thinking unless your dim grasp of it seems (to you) to back up your crackpot theories, in which case you vaunt it as 'evidence'.
Please keep your head buried in your book if you wish. I prefer to use mine to think with.
Amra, you read correctly but failed to interpret correctly. Xamanos (sorry if I misspelled) is trying to tell you that, yes the big bang was instantaneous and no everything wasn't created in the blink of an eye. This is a process. The Big Bang occured 13.7 billion years ago based on Doppler readings of the leftover energy (microwave/radio wave electromagnetic frequencies) from the Big Bang. Our planet wasn't "born" until about 4.5 billion years ago. If the story of the universe were formatted to a 24-hour day, we humans do not come on the scene until 30 seconds to midnight. We just got here. But I have no problem with this being a part of God's creative intentions.