Ichabod didn't really have a downfall, except from the horse. Ichabod won. He got away for there and didn't get stuck with Katrina. This story is an example of winning by appearing to lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightshade
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Ichabod didn't really have a downfall, except from the horse. Ichabod won. He got away for there and didn't get stuck with Katrina. This story is an example of winning by appearing to lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightshade
maybe, but it depends on whose version you take doesnt it?
the wives or the farmer??
:D
"The old country wives, however, who are the best judges of these matters, maintain to this day that Ichabod was spirited away by supernatural means; and it is a favorite story often told about the neighborhood round the winter evening fire."
This sets this ending as a typical "old wives tale"; that is, it is not to be believed except as entertainment. Consider the alternative:
" It is true, an old farmer, who had been down to New York on a visit several years after, and from whom this account of the ghostly adventure was received, brought home the intelligence that Ichabod Crane was still alive; that he had left the neighborhood, partly through fear of the goblin and Hans Van Ripper, and partly in mortification at having been suddenly dismissed by the heiress; that he had changed his quarters to a distant part of the country; had kept school and studied law at the same time, had been admitted to the bar, turned politician, electioneered, written for the newspapers, and finally had been made a justice of the Ten Pound Court."
This version contains an assertion that someone had spoken with Mr Crane, whence the information "that he had left the neighborhood, partly through fear of the goblin and Hans Van Ripper, and partly in mortification at having been suddenly dismissed by the heiress", and there appear to have been other reports that contain some of the other information.
The wives claim requires that extra-ordinary events, creatures, etc. happened without them producing any evidence, while the farmer's story contains information that was obtained from the party involved.
If your next door neighbor disappeared one day, and three years later two people claimed that they knew what happened to him. One said that he had been kidnapped by aliens and was now on one of the moons of Jupiter, while the other said that he had run into him in a city a thousand miles away where he had fled from an unhappy marriage. Which one would you believe?
Nightshade,
I certainly believe Icabod was vain, not to mention a glutton. Icabod is a classic example of a mock hero. I mean, just look at the passage as he is getting ready to go to the feast. Yes, some readers like him because of the humor involved in these situations, but Irving certainly does not like icabod. Icabod is an unwelcome guest in Sleepy Hollow. I recently wrote a literary analysis on this very subject, but I hesitate to post it on a public forum.
-oni
i'd definitely believe about the aliens.
this ichabod reminds me of so many guys i have met, and girls if it comes to that. they are totally self absorbed and relate every single thing to themselves and whether that thing or person or place will stoke their ego, furnish them with 'happiness' and prosperity.
i feel sick in my stomach at the cold blooded way old icky took a look at the kind and hard working mr. van Tassel who the book says had no prideful attitude about his prosperity. to ichabod he was simply a means to an end as were every one from the humblest school child who had a pretty sister to katrina, plump and pretty katrina. I realize she was a coquette, a flirt, but the schoolmaster was older and considering he was bad ugly had to play a pretty mean game to try to win her.
he had to run because A- he woke up with a bump on the head and saw the pumpkin and realized Brom had had sport with him and shamed him.
B-Katrina also had beat him at his own game all the while knowing it was Brom she would walk down the aisle with.
So he picked up and fled and used a whole new group of people for his own means far far away.
i detest him.
Didn't get to join in, because 1.) I have no chat line up and 2.) I was and am very sick at the moment but the book remains one of my favorites. Shoot me if you wish, Night. Right now I'm not certain I'd mind too much...... :sick: http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/1346.gif
I don't especially like any of the characters. Sure Ichabod was out for number one, so was Katrina, and so was Brom. The most likeable character might have been Mr Van Tassel.Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel
When he woke up with the pumpkin beside him, he probably realized that he didn't have anything to gain by staying. There are people who would have stayed around and tried a comeback. Ichabod didn't make that mistake.
Well, it's All Hallow's Eve tonight as I'm typing this and I'm a little (a lot?) late but here's my two cents. :)
I've never seen the cartoon or movie so I can't compare it. I read through this fairly quickly at work and actually thought it was a little boring. I thought all the signs of what was going to happen were laid out so thick that one couldn't help but see what lied ahead.
I did think the statement about women being worse than monsters more or less was accurate - for a man that is and especially at the time it was written though women may not realize it they (we) spin them around till they don't know if they're coming or going.
So I liked that admission but I didn't really care for Ichabod because he was really full of himself but I did admire how he could blend in with everyone and even got around Brom Bones.
I liked Brom Bones probably best because he wasn't mean spirited or really sneaky until the end and that was rather well deserved I thought and funny.
Didn't have an opinion of Katrina. It's hard to tell where she was coming from.
I just thought all the build up to superstition was too much so maybe that turned me off. I felt like it was forced down my throat. If it had been less I might have enjoyed the story better. But the story feels like it's just poking fun more than anything. Guess everyone won in the end though.
Finally, NIght thanks for taking so much time setting this up. I forgot about the chat but probably couldn't have participated anyway. Anyway it was an interesting read and I'm glad I read it.
well firstly I am sorry I didn't join the chat, I wanted to but I coulnd't, I was very busy and didn't have time at all. but I did read the story and I prefer the movie better. as Erna said I wasn't so enthusiatic while reading it, I don't know why but I just didn't like the story so much. I also expected that something happens to Ichabod... I didn't like that the whole time it is as if trying to be spooky but in the end you're dssapointed because it doesn't seem spooky at all. I do agree with some guys that said that Ichabod is yuk. he is... he is described as a caricature but still he is full of himself and he feels as if he is the most handsome guy there. I don't like his attitude at all. and I do think it's a satire... the story had so many unknown words for me and I felt lost in some parts but that much that I understood made me think all this. but then again it was a good read, I'm happy I read it... :)
The story was definitely satirical and not to be taken too seriously. I enjoyed the voice of the piece, the narrator used the voice of a storyteller and the descriptions were often in-depth, but not boring. Overall I liked it.
One thing that stuck out and distracted me in my reading was the racism. I am not promoting censorship; in fact, I think this is a part of our history that it would a travesty to forget. Still the racism rubbed me because it was not done in the style of other authors, like Twain, who use racist characters or social situations to show the flaws in this prejudice. Instead the author used racist terms to describe African-American characters as matter of fact.
The racism was timely for the piece, but I still didn't like it and found it distracting.
you are absolutely right about the racism. it made me angry and i couldn't help thinking how wierd that anyone with a soul wouldn't think even THINKING like that was sickening and disgusting.
I love your little avatar. It reminds me of one in black and white on ART Passions in the Peter Pan section. I fell in love with it as soon as I saw it.
As a person of color I must add my two cents once again. I actually stopped reading the story when I came to the description of the Negro deliverer. It definitely gave me pause however I took a few minutes to think it over and then decided to finish it. I finished it because I found the descriptions were not particularly prejudiced or mean spirited but simply how he saw Negroes to be at that time. Callous, too casual? It simply was the way the world was then. In fact, after I finished the story I had completely forgotten about it – didn’t even think about it until it was mentioned.
Funny it actually reminded me of Sir Walter Scott whom I enjoy for the most part but he has a most unflattering way of describing Negroes more so than in this story. So coming from one whom it could have offended it didn't once I thought about it. Things like that happen all the time I've discovered even in a song like Lumberjack Rabbit better known as Jimmy Crack Corn and in a book like Little House on the Prairie which also gave me pause when I was reading it to my children when they were younger.
Basically it’s the way the world was and one can fume over it but there’s no point as there’s nothing we can do about it now. The story was okay, odd that it was supposed to be scary but then again perhaps it was scary for that day and age. Time changes many things. And now I’m stepping off my soap box. :)
Scary, no. It was written as a humorous story. If you read any more of Washington Irving, it will become clear that he wrote funny stories with a sarcastic twist to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlin
Aw, thanks for clearing that up. I truly wondered at that.
Darlin, what a fine mind and a big heart as well as a great spirit you have. people like you make the world a much more bearable place.