Why I believe in God?

NikolaiI,

I have seen plenty of people that you describe in your penultimate sentence. They are entrenched in their views to such a way that any argument, any evidence that doesn't agree with them is seen as negative and therefore something to avoid. This then means that everything confirms and strengthens their beliefs. but that's fine. what isn't fine is expecting everyone to hold their tongue because such people are around. even the church needs dissenters and radicals. Faith today would be nowhere without such people.

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Originally Posted by atiguhya padma

People deserve respect not ideas or beliefs. Can you imagine a philosophy professor complaining to the principal that people don't respect his philosophical views? He or she would be laughed at. if ideas, beliefs or viewpoints do not hold water, we should stop trying to artificially keep them
afloat. The fact that nowadays Christians are forever harping on about respect for their religious views shows just how weak their arguments are: they cannot defend their ideas well enough, so they're left with the last resort, respect, which leaves them free to propound nonsense and jargon without due review. It's the old story of the Emperor's new clothes.

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You completely did not get what I was saying.

Do you understand that comments about someone belief, if phrased a certain way, can be very little different from insulting the actual person. For example what I used as an e.g., "That's absolutely the stupidest, most idiotic thing I've ever heard anyone say."

The other thing is - I do have a very valid complaint. It's not just people who disagree with me I have a problem with. It's people who are radical and fundamentalist themselves, who will go on to say all kinds of nasty stuff in continuation.

It's also the complete closed-mindedness and lack of thought which sometimes comes.

Don't defend anonymous people on the internet so easily because sometimes the worst comes out in them in an anonymous setting like this. If someone goes on the attack quite often, calling those with spiritual ideas delusional frequently, saying they have mental problems... this is not really helpful to anyone, themselves or others.

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Originally Posted by atiguhya padma

NikolaiI,

I have seen plenty of people that you describe in your penultimate sentence. They are entrenched in their views to such a way that any argument, any evidence that doesn't agree with them is seen as negative and therefore something to avoid. This then means that everything confirms and strengthens their beliefs. but that's fine. what isn't fine is expecting everyone to hold their tongue because such people are around. even the church needs dissenters and radicals. Faith today would be nowhere without such people.

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Atiguhya, I did not give a list of those who I respect and admire but they are absolutely nothing like what you just described.

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so" - Mark Twain

Faith and believing are pretty same thing, right? Funny thing; everyone who flies in airplane is believer. He believes, that plane stays in the air. If he/she do not believe, he/she will not go in the plane.

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Originally Posted by JommiL

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so" - Mark Twain

Faith and believing are pretty same thing, right?

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No, they aren't. Believing is a thing and - according to Twain - faith is believing under a specific circumstance. So, to break that down semantically, if I were to say that Murder is killing when the law says you mustn't, that would not lead to the conclusion that 'murder and killing are pretty same thing'.

Semantic inconsistency apart, what's the point you're trying to make? Are you saying that anyone who believes anything believes everything?

No. I try to say, that believing and faith - also, is needed.

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Originally Posted by JommiL

Faith and believing are pretty same thing, right?

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No, they're not. If I believe something for a comprehensible reason, there's no faith involved. I believe we will see the sun rise every morning because I know the reason we see the sun rise. Religious believers consider faith a virtue because it involves professing belief in things that can't be rationally affirmed.

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Funny thing; everyone who flies in airplane is believer. He believes, that plane stays in the air. If he/she do not believe, he/she will not go in the plane.

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The difference is that the belief is based on a rational understanding of what makes planes fly and the reasonable expectation that the machine has been responsibly built and maintained.

That's the exact opposite of faith.

Regards,

Istvan

Well, i must disagree. Even faith can be rationally affirmed.
And basically people are showed they true side: Jesus made miracles and there was still those, who did not BELIEVE in him.

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Originally Posted by JommiL

Well, i must disagree. Even faith can be rationally affirmed.

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No it can't. That's what makes it faith. Can a believer rationally affirm John 3:16, or does he simply profess to believe it's true because he thinks it's immoral to doubt it?

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And basically people are showed they true side: Jesus made miracles and there was still those, who did not BELIEVE in him.

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The Doubting Thomas story shows why religious believers consider faith a virtue. Anyone can affirm something if it's supported by evidence, so there's no moral dimension to professing such a belief. Jesus said "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

And that's where religious belief diverges from any regular human search for knowledge: facts and evidence are considered irrelevant. With religion, it's a moral imperative to believe, not an intellectual conclusion.

Regards,

Istvan

Yes it can be affirmed;

Hebr. 11;1

And yes, it is intellectual conclusion, and it is very easy to me.

You can't prove something using itself. That's one of the worst logical fallacies that can be made.

Belief in God is something we do it as an influence and of course we were told to believe in God. We were told the Biblical story of creation before we learned Darwin's theory of evolution. And thus our elders or seniors have instilled in our defenseless mindsets to beleive in God and we do now out of that impression and that is how faith goes on and on and on timelessly

I believe in God because He has touched my heart so deeply with his Holy Spirit that anything else than to love, obey and worship him was impossible.

Faith is not something man can achieve on his own, it is an act of God.

"We love Him because He first loved us." - 1 John 4:19

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

Belief in God is something we do it as an influence and of course we were told to believe in God. We were told the Biblical story of creation before we learned Darwin's theory of evolution. And thus our elders or seniors have instilled in our defenseless mindsets to beleive in God and we do now out of that impression and that is how faith goes on and on and on timelessly

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This is incorrect. I was an atheist for many years and I learned about evolution long before creation. I was not brought up as a Christian, but rather in an anti-Christian home. People believe in God because they see the the Truth in His eternal Word and they see the undeniable fact that He exists and ultimately we feel His presence in our hearts. I was never "brain washed" to be Christian, it is something I became later in life. This is also the case for many other people. Take Buddhists in China as an example. These may not have heard of Christianity and creation all their lives and then, when they are eventually introduced to Christianity, they start believing in God. These facts do not agree with your statements.

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Originally Posted by Dekarto

I was an atheist for many years and I learned about evolution long before creation. I was not brought up as a Christian, but rather in an anti-Christian home. People believe in God because they see the the Truth in His eternal Word and they see the undeniable fact that He exists and ultimately we feel His presence in our hearts. I was never "brain washed" to be Christian, it is something I became later in life.

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Can I ask why God and Christ are always used synonymously? Where there is God there is Christianity. I respect your change in belief, Dekarto, but it confuses me. You started off with no religious beliefs and then gravitated towards Christianity. Why? Why not Buddhism? Judaism? Islam? Wicca? Did you just happen to live where there is a large community of Christians?

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Originally Posted by Dekarto

Take Buddhists in China as an example. These may not have heard of Christianity and creation all their lives and then, when they are eventually introduced to Christianity, they start believing in God.

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That's not only China, but it's most of the world. The spread of Christianity was forced on many. If your example is focused on today I can only say that religion is a tool for assimilation. How much easier is it to fit in and get involved when you're in church every Sunday?

Regardless, I believe in a God. Maybe it's a security blanket I use as an answer as to "Why isn't there just nothing?"

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Originally Posted by Dekarto

This is incorrect. I was an atheist for many years and I learned about evolution long before creation. I was not brought up as a Christian, but rather in an anti-Christian home. People believe in God because they see the the Truth in His eternal Word and they see the undeniable fact that He exists and ultimately we feel His presence in our hearts. I was never "brain washed" to be Christian, it is something I became later in life. This is also the case for many other people. Take Buddhists in China as an example. These may not have heard of Christianity and creation all their lives and then, when they are eventually introduced to Christianity, they start believing in God. These facts do not agree with your statements.

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You seem to have been conditioned into believing in Christian faiths and you have wrongly thought that Chinese people have come to Christianity just because they have thought it is better than Buddhism. Most of what Christian missionaries do is they try to convert people into Christianity and by injecting more and more money they are influencing them. That said I am not critical of your faith and I respect others' faith, but now this is simply a comment on your critical opinion. What is more to articulate the Christian idea of creation is a narrow point of view and Christianity is one of the hundred faiths which suffer all kinds of dogmas and discretions. I personally do not subscribe to the personal God you do have and though I am born of an orthodox Hindu family yet I believe not in a personal, national, mythological, religious or invented God the way you do. Nobody can evidently say God exists nor they can disregard the idea of God. We are in a dilemma of belief and disbelief. But I am always open to ideas and never approve of theism and atheism for both lead to narrowness. In someway I repudiate that Christianity is better than Buddhism for simple and gullible Chinese Buddhists to convert. Now Buddhism is deemed a scientific religion by many and it does not suffer the fallacies and myths of Christianity. With all that said I apologize that I am not hitting upon your personal faiths but this is a general comment only, not directed against the domain of your faith at all