Why I believe in God?

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Originally Posted by JommiL

Orphan; No it is not silly. Because scientists can calculate exact position for moon and planets, because they are moving extremely accurate.

Let me ask one question; EVERY material in this world will shrink when it´s temperature is getting colder. But there´s one exception. What it is? Water. Why? Because if water would shrink when it turns into ice, it would get more heavier than normal water, and it would sink into bottom of the seas. Result would be that quite soon bottom of the seas would be filled with ice. Do you think this is just coincidence?

Let´s get forward; Why earth is in angled? It´s position is not straight. If it would be straight, other side on the earth would be very hot, and other would be filled with ice. No reason to say, would this kind of circumstances allow that kind of rich life, that we see here now? Now when that little angle exists, we have opportunity to see and feel and live in different seasons.

And also; If nature has no laws, why very often we must copy things from it? Very few materials has that kind of features that there´s in nature. Let´s think about bones. Bones has very strong structure, they are very tough, but still they are very, very light. What happen, if our bones would be something like a steel? Moving would be quite difficult. And why bones are often hollow? Because hollow bone is A/ lighter and B/ stronger than solid one.

What if ozon layer would missing? What if earth would be littlebit more closer on farer from the sun? What if there´s no such thing like gravity? Can you imagine? Why just we have something like air? How our senses, mind, consciousness and thought are born? How we can see colours? Are these coincidences too? If you see even a henhouse in the fields, you would ever believe, if i told you that it came from nothing. And gravity... well, it is littlebit larger and more difficult thing than henhouse.

Perhaps you should read some chapters from book of Job, for example 38 and 39, and think again about your question?

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And yet none of these things mean that it was designed. There are a seemingly endless amount of planets orbiting a seemingly endless amount of stars. (I am no astronomer by any means, but this is my understanding of it). What are the chances that one of these or many of these planets have the capabilities to support life or act exactly as the earth acts. When given so many possibilities it seems plausible that what has happened would happen, given a large enough pool of possibilities. It is truly amazing that we are here, and it does feel like a gift to be alive, but to chalk all this up to a all powerful being without any proof that one does or ever did exist is not an option for me. In my opinion, it takes away of what is actually amazing about Earth.

Well, then too all those wristwatches are from emptiness, no-one has build them...

But you got the point of water anyway. Dont you?

Lets ask this way; What would be proof of designing to you?

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Originally Posted by JommiL

Well, then too all those wristwatches are from emptiness, no-one has build them...

But you got the point of water anyway. Dont you?

Lets ask this way; What would be proof of designing to you?

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Gallium exands when frozen too. Short of a manifestation by a deity, that is not induced in a dream state or a hallucination, a miracle I guess, witnessing something that is impossible.

What would it take to shake your faith to the point where you could no longer believe in your creator?

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Originally Posted by MSDGreen

What would it take to shake your faith to the point where you could no longer believe in your creator?

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why is this necessary? Please respect the rights of others to their beliefs. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by MSDGreen

The post that I was replying to was trying to say that because something exists, such as a watch, then it unreasonable to say that it came from nothing. Well using that logic, and assuming that God does exist then he/she must have been created by something intelligent, or must be designed. Watches were made by man, and so was God*. Maybe you could get one of your first graders to draw it out in crayon for you?

*This opinion has been crafted by the facts as they are. Should someone offer proof that there is indeed a God/Gods I will gladly change that.**

**Not being able to disprove something does not make that certain something true.

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Yes.. I am familiar with this argument. But let's use the word "source" for a moment instead of "creator."

The first question to address is, "does everything have a source?"

I believe the answer to this is fairly clearly yes. Everything does indeed have a source. Now the idea that because everything has a source, there can't be an original source of everything, that doesn't make sense -- and yet that is what the argument used boils down to. The argument says, "Well, what is the source of the original source?" And if there isn't a good answer, then the conclusion "There is no source." But this doesn't disprove that everything has a source...

So I guess it comes down simply to that question, Does everything have a source? Does the universe have a source? If everything does, then the universe does...

Anyway it's remarkable how universal this idea is... and in fact how many people's spirituality consists of this... and not a God who smites people.

In my mind it's clear that it is a logical idea to say the universe has a source, and that there are existences, realities, dimensions, beyond what we currently know. To say there's no dimensions, realities, existence beyond what we know at this moment, to say there cannot be, that is the height of ignorance...

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Originally Posted by Haunted

why is this necessary? Please respect the rights of others to their beliefs. Thanks.

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Good point but i´ll give my answer;

Just because there´s too much things in life that cannot find from wordbook of atheists. There´s too many "coincidents" in this universe, which - in VERY strange way are just too perfect.

Why earth is in angled? It´s position is not straight. If it would be straight, other side on the earth would be very hot, and other would be filled with ice. No reason to say, would this kind of circumstances allow that kind of rich life, that we see here now? Now when that little angle exists, we have opportunity to see and feel and live in different seasons.


Yeah - good point!! And another thing - if there's no God, how come all the Australian animals are in Australia? I mean, not most of them - every single one!

Coincidence??!?? I think not, Mr Arnie so-called Atheist.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

And another thing - if there's no God, how come all the Australian animals are in Australia? I mean, not most of them - every single one!

Coincidence??!?? I think not, Mr Arnie so-called Atheist.

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Amen, brother. I also think it's significant that in God's precise and perfect Creation, the ratio of a circle's diameter to its circumference is exactly 22 divided by 7.

Not about 22 divided by seven, exactly 22 divided by seven.

Explain how that happens without an omnipotent Creator.

Regards,

Istvan Pangloss

Actually, if we had twenty-two fingers and seven toes and a perfectly round head, I'd probably believe in God.

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Originally Posted by Babbalanja

Amen, brother. I also think it's significant that in God's precise and perfect Creation, the ratio of a circle's diameter to its circumference is exactly 22 divided by 7.

Not about 22 divided by seven, exactly 22 divided by seven.

Explain how that happens without an omnipotent Creator.

Regards,

Istvan Pangloss

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Originally Posted by Haunted

why is this necessary? Please respect the rights of others to their beliefs. Thanks.

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Please understand I am not trying take away anyones right to believe what they like. A question was asked of me and I answered as best I could and returned the question. The question was modified so that it was relevant. If you don't want to answer the question that is fine, but try to respect my right to ask people questions. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

Actually, if we had twenty-two fingers and seven toes and a perfectly round head, I'd probably believe in God.

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Enough of your impiety, Mark.

Consider the fact that if the loving Creator hadn't made retroviruses, trypanosomes, and birth defects, scientists wouldn't have to expand their knowledge to try to eradicate these things. And then where would we be?

Hard evidence, my friend, that the Lord works in mysterious ways.

Regards,

Istvan

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Originally Posted by JommiL

Good point but i´ll give my answer;

Just because there´s too much things in life that cannot find from wordbook of atheists. There´s too many "coincidents" in this universe, which - in VERY strange way are just too perfect.

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Your faith is a good thing for all of us. :)

What I don't get... those militant atheist... when I used to read their posts.. they consider all of us believers to be the "same." Even though some are fundamentalists, some are liberals, etc., etc... for me God is the sacred, the holy, the consecrate, the divine... the divine being full bliss, peace, knowledge, power, etc...

And scientists have come to a conclusion... that the universe is a like a holographic universe...and an infinitely repeating fractal pattern... which is something I thought of long before...

Some people don't realize this and that the scientists have come to these conclusions, which reveal a lot of beauty, complexity, (also simplicity) and mystery to the universe... they just hate those things!.. they would prefer every scientists to be a staunch atheist. :p

MSDGreen, yes, i understand your point.

Mark; Ah, How´s in Australia? I truly want to visit in that country in some day. I Live in Finland - and it is very cold in here and winter... well, a LOT more of snow in here than in Australia!

Good question. Also there was Indians in America, Blacks in Africa, idiots in Finland etc. No-one knows exactly, how old earth is, but to ME it could make sense, that in some day - many, many thousands years ago earth´s ground was much more solid. If you check out the world map, you see, that Africa and south-America will fit together as figure? Anyway, my point of view is that if this theory is true, perhaps kangaroos had one large population earlier in specific location - in that magnificent, endless landscape on Australia, and then land fell down, and water separated Australia from mainland? Fact is, that land is living all the time. Most of the kangaroos had to stay in Australia, and then, after all, population was stronger there? Also human being and most of the animals MUST stay with they friends and with they race, because other oppornity is to die.

Think this and tell me, what do you think? I will gladly hear your opinion.

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Originally Posted by JommiL

Well, then too all those wristwatches are from emptiness, no-one has build them...

But you got the point of water anyway. Dont you?

Lets ask this way; What would be proof of designing to you?

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Perhaps a big sign written in the sky. He could use the northern lights or something. It could say: "HELLO DOWN THERE! Yes it's me, GOD, and I did create the Universe- so think on!"

That would be enough. Not much to ask of someone who can make ice bergs float, is it?

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Originally Posted by NikolaiI

And scientists have come to a conclusion... that the universe is a like a holographic universe...and an infinitely repeating fractal pattern... which is something I thought of long before...

Some people don't realize this and that the scientists have come to these conclusions, which reveal a lot of beauty, complexity, (also simplicity) and mystery to the universe... they just hate those things!.. they would prefer every scientists to be a staunch atheist. :p

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I just wonder why it matters what scientists think. Many times I've said that I believe people profess faith for reasons that have nothing to do with facts and evidence. All this talk about the physics of religion seems irrelevant.

What I'd prefer is that believers be honest about the reason for their faith, that it's something that comes from within each one of them. No more cod statistics. No more pseudoscientific rationalizations. And no more of your New Age word salads.

Regards,

Istvan