Twilight

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Originally Posted by Dark Lady

Do you mean you think the last book was the only one that was playing on teenage girls' sexual fantasies? Because it was the one that did it the least.

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It was creepio! Fetish too far.

Haven't read the books or seen the movie. The fact that this is so popular seems to be a big reason people want to criticize it. It's kind of like the people who accuse the Potter books of being Satanic, (nevermind that the lesser-known His Dark Materials books are obviously anti-religious and also 'kids' books).
Twilight is a romance, and from what it sounds like, a pretty shallow romance. That's just a popular genre. Nothing new about it, or sensuality in a romance for that matter. Not that I don't understand people's frustrations that these kinds of books are more read than their oh-so-beloved classics.
But I'm getting sick of people complaining about Twilight, and making nasty insults about Meyer like they know the lady. It's one thing to say she's a crappy writer, it's another to call her a b**** or worse.
For all we know, Twilight may actually become a classic in the future. Weren't some classics considered trashy when they came out? But I'm in no rush to read it, I've got enough to read right now. Think I'll just pass.

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Originally Posted by teashi

Haven't read the books or seen the movie. The fact that this is so popular seems to be a big reason people want to criticize it. It's kind of like the people who accuse the Potter books of being Satanic, (nevermind that the lesser-known His Dark Materials books are obviously anti-religious and also 'kids' books).
Twilight is a romance, and from what it sounds like, a pretty shallow romance. That's just a popular genre. Nothing new about it, or sensuality in a romance for that matter. Not that I don't understand people's frustrations that these kinds of books are more read than their oh-so-beloved classics.
But I'm getting sick of people complaining about Twilight, and making nasty insults about Meyer like they know the lady. It's one thing to say she's a crappy writer, it's another to call her a b**** or worse.
For all we know, Twilight may actually become a classic in the future. Weren't some classics considered trashy when they came out? But I'm in no rush to read it, I've got enough to read right now. Think I'll just pass.

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The problem is not that it's a romance, not that it's popular, not that it makes vampirism a metaphor for teenage sexuality, not even that it has a predictable but surefire plot. All those are fine, and I'm sure we can come up with a list of books to which one or more of the above apply, but which don't attract the kind of dismissive weariness that's been seen in this thread. So - to be clear - none of those attributes cause a problem.

The problem is that it's so badly written. One might not mind that, or one might mind it so much that one feels like putting out one's own eyes with a newly-sharpened 2HB. But it remains the case - it's so badly written.

All together now, nice and loud - it's so badly written.

And that, if you ask me, is justification enough for expressing a low opinion of the woman responsible.

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Originally Posted by Dimitra

hello everyone :)
I have a friend who is "fanatic" about Twillight series.She has birthday and I want to give her a book.Any suggestions?:)
She likes vampires and stuff but what I suspect she loved the most of Twillight is that ehmm..romantic element.It's really not my cup of tea,so I can't think of any book she might enjoy.:/

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Err...

wrong thread?

{edit}

er...Dimitria....maybe something...Twilightish?

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Originally Posted by limajean

I'm not entirely too sure who said it but someone a bit further back in this thread said something about Twilight playing on the sexual fantasies of girls. You have to be very, very careful when making a comment like that and of which i'm about to support and add to, but I think it's bang on.

Twilight, in my opinion, does not simply appeal to girls because of its "storyline" or the characters of which are, I must add, poorly crafted and pathetically executed, it plays on the desires of young girls. I'm gonna be treading on egg shells with this so I have to be careful but the sexual energy in that book is insane. It's almost as though Meyer is writing out her own fantasies in a book. The comments Edward makes about "breaking" Bella in half if he's not careful, the constant emphasis on his strength and how fragile she is, SCREAMS sex. The whole, "oh Edward take control of me with your dominant ways" is highlighted, page after page in that book.

Ask most people who read that book, the thing they are most interested in is Edward and Bella's relationship. Most of them picture themselves in place of Bella and the thought of being "controlled" and in the hands of someone who could break them in half appeals to them.

Deny it as much as they want, but Meyer knew what her selling point would be.

Sex. sex. sex.



p.s hello CC!

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hello LJ midear!

Now on to the good stuff..

Can't argue with the fact that sex plays a giant part in the novels. I was actually really surprised by the blatant sexual undertones of the first two novels (they're not even undertones by the time you get to the last two) because of the age group towards which these books are geared. I wasn't reading stuff like that when I was twelve haha. But it's the dominance dynamics that make the whole relationship interesting because while Edward is clearly physically dominant and Bella's all fragile and whatnot, the author makes a point of expressing that Bella is meant to be the dominant person in their relationship. The characters are both meant to be such passionate people but there are physical barriers (at least for a while :rolleyes:) and that throws the dominance/ submission dynamics all over the place. The first book was obviously sexual in its descriptions, but it was the sensuality without the physical relationship that I found kind of interesting.

And this is why the fourth book was by far the worst- the author let go of all these interesting dynamics and just had the characters go at it the whole time. :sick:

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

The problem is not that it's a romance, not that it's popular, not that it makes vampirism a metaphor for teenage sexuality, not even that it has a predictable but surefire plot. All those are fine, and I'm sure we can come up with a list of books to which one or more of the above apply, but which don't attract the kind of dismissive weariness that's been seen in this thread. So - to be clear - none of those attributes cause a problem.

The problem is that it's so badly written. One might not mind that, or one might mind it so much that one feels like putting out one's own eyes with a newly-sharpened 2HB. But it remains the case - it's so badly written.

All together now, nice and loud - it's so badly written.

And that, if you ask me, is justification enough for expressing a low opinion of the woman responsible.

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Yeah, I know 'it's badly written' is a big complaint too. But the things I mentioned also seem to be reasons people dislike the books, or they seem to add to their disliking of it. It's understandable people want to blame someone for something they think is so grossly undeserving of success, but calling the writer a b****? That just seems low. And it hardly proves the person saying it is above her 'trashy' work.
People can say what they want, but I don't think reading a crappy book is a good reason to make personal insults about the writer. It's the work itself you hate, so attack that.

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Originally Posted by limajean

Err...

wrong thread?

{edit}

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sorry I just thought because many of you were big fans here could give me some suggestions..I didn't mean to interrupt your discussions.:/

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Originally Posted by Dimitra

sorry I just thought because many of you were big fans here could give me some suggestions..I didn't mean to interrupt your discussions.:/

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You didn't interrupt, Dimitra! We just don't want you to get jumped on by people telling you that similar work isn't worth reading either, or something like that :) Welcome aboard!

I'm a fan of Twilight, but I don't read anything else for this age demographic or relating to the subject matter, so I couldn't recommend anything similar to you!

Feel free to join the discussion though!

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Originally Posted by teashi

People can say what they want, but I don't think reading a crappy book is a good reason to make personal insults about the writer. It's the work itself you hate, so attack that.

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Now I think about it, it occurs to me that I can forgive a good writer anything - from an ugly beard (Dickens) to casual racism (Pound). But I will mercilessly cajole and insult bad writers, even if they're quite nice people and really kind to kittens.

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Originally Posted by Dimitra

sorry I just thought because many of you were big fans here could give me some suggestions..I didn't mean to interrupt your discussions.:/

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Don't be sorry.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

Now I think about it, it occurs to me that I can forgive a good writer anything - from an ugly beard (Dickens) to casual racism (Pound). But I will mercilessly cajole and insult bad writers, even if they're quite nice people and really kind to kittens.

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You're quite funny, i must say

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Originally Posted by Dimitra

sorry I just thought because many of you were big fans here could give me some suggestions..I didn't mean to interrupt your discussions.:/

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Hey don't be silly and actually you raise a great point here. How much of Stephenie Meyers work is orginal? I am currently making my way through Dead Until Dark the Sookie Stackhouse mysteries which was published before Twilight and I am stunned at some of the things that are repeated in the Twilight novels. Vampire/human romance - tick. Someone that can read minds - tick. There are other elements as well but I don't want to give away to many spoliers. Has anyone else found that with SM books?

Dimitra I am not sure of your age but these are adult only novel there is no attempt at all to keep sex as an undertone.

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Originally Posted by Joreads

Hey don't be silly and actually you raise a great point here. How much of Stephenie Meyers work is orginal? I am currently making my way through Dead Until Dark the Sookie Stackhouse mysteries which was published before Twilight and I am stunned at some of the things that are repeated in the Twilight novels. Vampire/human romance - tick. Someone that can read minds - tick. There are other elements as well but I don't want to give away to many spoliers. Has anyone else found that with SM books?

Dimitra I am not sure of your age but these are adult only novel there is no attempt at all to keep sex as an undertone.

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Yeah but those are themes that are found in most, if not all, vampire novels.


Tell your friend to read Interview with a Vampire

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Originally Posted by limajean

Yeah but those are themes that are found in most, if not all, vampire novels.


Tell your friend to read Interview with a Vampire

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Hey!
The movie's pretty good to! maybe only because Brad's in it, but who cares?

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Originally Posted by Dark Lady

Do you mean you think the last book was the only one that was playing on teenage girls' sexual fantasies? Because it was the one that did it the least.

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i disagree....c'mon, Breaking Dawn is the only one that talked about Bella sleeping with Edward...and it's also the same one in which she gets pregnant...! Yeah, it's the least...yeah..not what you'd call a PG rating...

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Originally Posted by Beautifull

i disagree....c'mon, Breaking Dawn is the only one that talked about Bella sleeping with Edward...and it's also the same one in which she gets pregnant...! Yeah, it's the least...yeah..not what you'd call a PG rating...

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Characters having sex is not necessarily sensual. In fact it is just plain annoying in Breaking Dawn. All of the sexual tension built up in the other novels is ruined by them actually having sex (although it was starting to get a bit old before then anyway). It is naive to think that overtly talking about sex is the only way something can be sexual. In fact most of the time it is the opposite.