The puzzle of the socalled "Bach variations".

I'll give it another try, improving the language of my previous:

To the 'noble' keeper of the Groveling pile of musicological productions, member of C.R.A.P. aka Markiss-my-a**- de Lyingville, ie Robert Newman, author-to-be of 'The Manufacture of Mozart':

Subject: The 1770 Mozart contact to 'an englishman" while in Italy

-The version of the Allegri Miserere published in London in 1771 is very, very different from the version we know today. And it was definitely NOT made by Mozart either. Nor has Mozart ever been associated with it. The truth is you do not know your subject. Charles Burney in Italy was shadowing the Mozart family on their tour of Italy. (As I will clearly show in the 'Manufacture of Mozart'). Burney was part of the same stooge group that included Venetian occultist G. Ortes and many members of the elites of the Holy Roman Empire (and those of feudal England) directly involved in manufacturing one of the great lies of western culture. The legendary exploits of W.A. Mozart.
(From http://www.online-literature.com/for...+Burney&page=2)

By same man sometime later:

-The Englishman you wish to identify is probably George Nassau Clavering (1738-89) then Resident in Florence. Later made a Baron of the Holy Roman Empire and a vital contact between the British Empire and the Holy Roman Empire in matters of culture, art and music. And, as for the stage managed progress of the secularisation of society, it involved, of course Benjamin Franklin, elites of Britain and of continental Europe). In a huge revival of pagan religion and philosophy which became, eventually, globalism.
(From http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=59067&page=2, post 24)

Is that better?

:party:

Yanni,

I post as 'Musicology'. You have made a mistake. Try again.

'Lellyvigni' is the Marquis of Ligniville. I do not know this man. But at least I have replied to him. He obviously knows a great deal about this subject.

Marquis or not, you still have to provide an explanation for your change of tune re the identity of Mozart's 1770 'englishman'.

:yesnod:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musicology

Yanni,

I post as 'Musicology'. You have made a mistake. Try again.

'Lellyvigni' is the Marquis of Ligniville. I do not know this man. But at least I have replied to him. He obviously knows a great deal about this subject.

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Yanni,

Do you correct your mistakes ? I am not the Marquis. I have already told you this, twice. I have no idea what the Marquis thinks about this. He is not me. I am not him. Is this simple enough or shall I write it again ???

The Englishman you have asked about is NOT identified. Is he ? That means it could be one of several Englishmen who are known to have been involved with Mozart's career. An aristocrat, for sure. And there are numerous candidates. What is the problem with saying so ? Has this not helped you ? You may consider the question yourself and you may actually post some real information for once. I have now given two candidates for you to consider because both were involved in Italy with the career of Mozart. And both were Englishmen. That is better than your posts which provide nothing on this question. Do they ? When the composer Josef Mysliveveck died in 1781 in Rome his funeral expenses were paid for by..... ''an unidentified Englishman''. That means the exact English person is not clear. Doesn't it ? Any suggestions ? So I have not 'changed my tune'. I have provided not one but two suggestions. Either are possible. Which fact you now complain about. Shall I stir your coffee when you put some sugar in it ? May I drink it for you also ? LOL !

Is this message clear enough ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yanni

Marquis or not, you still have to provide an explanation for your change of tune re the identity of Mozart's 1770 'englishman'.

:yesnod:

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In other words, Robert, when relaxed, earlier on, you were quite sure, having researched the matter in detail, that...

Charles Burney in Italy was shadowing the Mozart family on their tour of Italy. (As I will clearly show in the 'Manufacture of Mozart').

..but when under pressure (from 'his excellency general Koch' who took you by surprise), the englishman changes to 'propably Clavering-Cowper' (whom the Mozarts had no problem naming earlier on in Florence):

The Englishman you wish to identify is probably George Nassau Clavering (1738-89) then Resident in Florence.

Two distinctly different tunes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musicology

Yanni,
The Englishman you have asked about is NOT identified. Is he ? That means it could be one of several Englishmen who are known to have been involved with Mozart's career. An aristocrat, for sure.... I have now given two candidates for you to consider because both were involved in Italy with the career of Mozart.

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Yanni,

Stop ! You are totally confused. There is not one but various options. You now have two. Both are possibles. Either may be the one.

Am I going too fast ?
:nopity:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yanni

I'll give it another try, improving the language of my previous:

To the 'noble' keeper of the Groveling pile of musicological productions, member of C.R.A.P. aka Markiss-my-a**- de Lyingville, ie Robert Newman, author-to-be of 'The Manufacture of Mozart':

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Hi Yanni,

Most Reverend Innay,
Celebrated Knight of the Golden Spur.
You are too modest to confirm that. Nevetheless I can guess
how graceful your mannners are.

I see thou thinkest I am Robert
If I would think thou art Robert would thou be ?
Yanni, why do you always hide such a divine attitude
Under such a rude, impolite, insolent appearance ?

If I would be Ligniville
as I am - Eugene
and also François

Marquis de la Maison de Loraine
How many Ligniville
would there be ?

(Sonnnet translated from Languedoc)

Innay (nom de guerre Yanni). I' sorry :sad: you are lost in the puzzle of the so-called 'Yanni Variations'. Hope you'll find a hint and a solution to those conspiracy theories which persecute your living days.

I most humbly kiss your hands and am

Most Gracious Knight
and Lord

Most submissive and obedient
Devoted and grateful
Servant

Marquis de Ligniville

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musicology

Dear Marquis,

Thank you for your letter

The brilliant research of Luca Bianchini deserves credit for bringing together all of the documentary evidence in this PDF - the most detailed article on the hoax of 1770 which has so far been published.

http://www.mediafire.com/?y6x6caeo2a84yfj

I hope you find it interesting and informative. It is a small but basic part of the ongoing criticism of the cultural and musical myth that is Mozart. There are more than a dozen similar articles that will shortly become available.

Yanni will no doubt join in congratulating Mr Bianchini for this outstanding work.

Regards

Robert Newman

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Hi Robert,

Thank you very much for the link. I've just downloaded the file. I'm reading the pdf. It seems to be interesting :).

Compliments for your, aesthetically unique, verse, markiss-my-a**!

Dear Marquis,

I hope you will forgive the crudities of Yanni's more recent posts. These are side effects of him relying too heavily on a musical diet of timelines and multiple personalities. (He is nice when you get to know him. Honest. Although he does lapse in to the idea that J.S. Bach and G. F. Handel are the same man).

A small example of Bach.

BWV 1053/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ27A...eature=related

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yanni

Compliments for your, aesthetically unique, verse, markiss-my-a**!

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Adieu, Yanni, teller of 1,000 Arabian Nights :).

Markiss-your-face Eugène François De Ligniville

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musicology

Dear Marquis,

I hope you will forgive the crudities of Yanni's more recent posts. These are side effects of him relying too heavily on a musical diet of timelines and multiple personalities. (He is nice when you get to know him. Honest. Although he does lapse in to the idea that J.S. Bach and G. F. Handel are the same man).

A small example of Bach.

BWV 1053/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ27A...eature=related

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Hi Robert

I thank you. I've read the pdf. I'll open a new thread, so we do not disturb Yanni :sleep:, and we could continue with Mozart :).

Lellyvigni,

I am glad you've read the PDF. Yes, please open a new thread and I will be happy to share with you on Mozart.

Regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lellyvigni

Hi Robert

I thank you. I've read the pdf. I'll open a new thread, so we do not disturb Yanni :sleep:, and we could continue with Mozart :).

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Returning the compliments:

There were two "padre Martinis" in Italy, 1770, both musicologists and both involved with the Mozarts and their mysterious "english friend" (or friends, if they were two as you say).

Can you name them and trace their whereabouts with regard to the Mozarts, Burney and/or Cowper, and Herr Misliwetschek as well?

Did the Mozarts visit Venice in August?

Ta-ta!

PS While at it, you may also try solving the puzzle of Berezovsky's Symphony in C, composed around 1770-72. October 1773 Berezovsky returned to St Petersburg with 'youknowho'!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Musicology

Yanni,

Stop ! You are totally confused. There is not one but various options. You now have two. Both are possibles. Either may be the one.

Am I going too fast ?
:nopity:

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27 June 1770 Rome: LEOPOLD MOZART TO HIS WIFE IN SALZBURG We arrived here in Rome at 8 o`clock yesterday evening by mail coach, taking 27 hours for a journey that took 4 and a half days by vitturino [1] . But we really flew. Count Kaunitz didn`t arrive until today: I thought it would be better if we travelled on our own as it`s not always possible to find enough horses at the post-stages, in which case we`d have had the honour of spending half a day at the post-stage waiting for the horses to return, all the more so in that I knew that His Excellency General Koch was leaving for Rome with 5 horses and a certain Englishman with 7. And so we left Naples on our own and I told everyone we met that I was the steward of the imperial ambassador, because the stewards of such gentlemen are held in high regard hereabouts. This not only made my journey safer, but I was also given good horses and prompt service, while in Rome I didn`t need to go to the Customs House to have our things examined. Instead I was received at the gate with a deep bow and simply told to drive on… http://letters.mozartways.com

7 juillet 1770 Abbé Galliani (from Naples?) à Madame d'Epinay: Je crois vous avoir écrit que ce petit Mozart est ici, et qu'il est moins miracle, quoi qu'il soit toujours le meme miracle, mais il ne sera jamais qu'un miracle. Et c'est tout… Adieu encore. Je vous embrasse, en dépit du scandale de Panurge et de tous les envieux de notre tendre correspondance .

Here is, then, a summary list of crucial questions for any Mozart scholars to answer re his 1770 Bologna exams etc:

1.What was 'His Excellency General Koch' doing in Naples and Rome, alongside Kaunitz, at the time?
2,Who was he?
3.How did he relate to the Mozarts?
4.Who was the 'certain engishman'?
5.How do they all link to Wolfgang-Amadeus's 'padre Martini' and, in particular, to 'abbe Galiani'? Who were these expert musiciens-opera composers?
6.There were two "padre Martinis"* in Italy, 1770, both musicologists and both involved with the Mozarts and their mysterious "english friend". Can you name them and trace their whereabouts with regard to the Mozarts, Burney and/or Cowper, and Herr Misliwetschek** as well?
7.Did the Mozarts visit Venice in August***?
8.PS While at it, you may also try solving the puzzle of Berezovsky's Symphony in C, composed around 1770-72. October 1773 Berezovsky returned to St Petersburg with 'youknowho'!

*Not included in the two 'padre Martinis' is another 'great unknown' composer,'Giovanni Battista Sammartini' whom the Mozarts also met in Italy, 1770. (Saint Martin's miracles, heh-heh)
**R.Newman:'It is surely a remarkable coincidence that Mozart, commissioned to write ‘Betulia liberata’ for Padua was unable to do so, and yet the very same piece was composed by Josef Myslivececk in Padua, in that very same year of 1771, now lost ! '
***see the 'August blank' at http://www.mozartproject.org/biography/ch_66_70.html