Twilight

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Originally Posted by Lynne50

Oh,JBI , that sounds a bit harsh. Should we only provide books to people who have above average reading abilities? That denies a whole population of people the pleasure of reading. Who knows where the reading of Twilight will take them. It may just be a stepping stone,one where they take pride in finishing a series and now want to explore other avenues. Not everyone can start out reading War and Peace. Teenage readers need help in finding books they feel are relevant to them. Everyone knows that Twilight is not great literature, but it may give help to those who struggle with reading. The more you read, the better you get at it.

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That wasn't my point - at least there reading automatically lowers the bar, and makes reading essentially books for 12 year olds the standard of literacy. If we praise things that have no complexity inside them, or no depth, then ultimately, reading as a whole is degraded, and quite simply, if Twilight is the standard, then I hardly think reading is even worth saving. I assure you, few respect literary culture as much as I do - my adolescence, in effect, was essentially constructed out of it - but to degrade it so is just silly.

I have no problem giving help to those who struggle with reading - I myself struggle with reading daily, as I try and read texts in other languages, and, thanks to the help of friends, I slowly make progress. But since my literacy in Italian essentially means the only text I can read with ease is a cheap magazine, does that mean we should praise the cheap magazines because I am able to read them? I can't even read nursery rhymes in Chinese, should we scrap those?

Of course, reading is difficult, but there are plenty of texts, such as Housman's verse, which require minimal knowledge of the language to really appreciate - though, they often take a sort of willingness to be open minded on the part of the reader. But I don't quite see that in Twilight, in the sense that Mozart's music can often be very, very simple in its style, that any child can hum the tune, yet even then, I wouldn't consider a popsong by The Backstreet Boys to be an "at least they are listening to music".

Respectfully, JBIWho says that books for 12 year olds lowers the standard of literacy? You also stated that" if we praise things, that have no complexities inside them, then the whole of reading is degraded."
How do we know what complexities are found in these books for 12 year olds? These books may indeed make young people think deeply about things, just on a 12 year old's level which is appropriate.

Joreads...you are tru...so true!

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Originally Posted by Dr. Hill

Stephenie Meyer isn't a good author :\ Her books are aimed at people who aren't mature enough to understand what a good author is and are impressionable enough to become entirely immersed in a fantasy world in which all guys are perfect, even the nerdy girl gets laid and vampires have a sweet and innocent side (much unlike the eponymous bloated leech who throws dogs through doors, found in Bram Stoker's famous work, Dracula).

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HAVE YOU READ ANY OF HER OTHER BOOKS BESIDES THOSE VAMP BOOKS?!!:flare::rage:

jeez, can't you understand that its not what the book is about but the quality of how she put it together?

yeah i understand you don't like the story...but the book was made to bring an escape to fantasy world,in a manner of speaking...

yeah i understand you didn't like guy-perfect and nerdy girl-laid thing, but to each his own.

have you even tried to write a story of your own..maybe then you'll see what i'm talking about, it's not so easy to make your characters come to life.
what i'm saying is Stephenie has a knack of making her book seem near real, making a world where things don't seemed planned out by an author, but it's almost real;believable.

if you can't see that, i pity you!!!

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Originally Posted by Seraphina

hmm, I read the books (what I thought of them is another matter), and I have to say I thought Robert Pattinson played Edward to perfection. I'm usually ultra critical on actor's portrayals of characters, but I thought Pattinson was perfect.

As for the book itself....mostly, it was a good idea. I...didn't exactly enjoy them, but I didn't hate reading them. However, I'll never pick them up again. I have a major personal ick over the whole idea of vampires not going out in the sun because they're too sparkley and pretty, though...honestly. Best way I'd describe it, is as literary candyfloss; no nutritional value, but most people enjoy it once in a while.

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to each their own, right?

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Originally Posted by Beautifull

jeez, can't you understand that its not what the book is about but the quality of how she put it together?

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But see, the thing is, the 'story' is the only thing that got her famous. The quality of the writing when you actually evaluate it is not that good.

I read Twilight the first time and I was intrigued by it. But when I tried to read it again, all I noticed was how sucky it was written. Without the mystery/love story, the book has nothing.

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have you even tried to write a story of your own..maybe then you'll see what i'm talking about, it's not so easy to make your characters come to life.
what i'm saying is Stephenie has a knack of making her book seem near real, making a world where things don't seemed planned out by an author, but it's almost real;believable.

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I hate when people use the comeback of 'you don't write stories so you can't critique'. We don't have to be writers to know if a story sucks or not. It's almost like saying, if you don't write than you can't fully appreciate the book either. That's absurd. We have tons of books to judge Meyer's story against and that's what we do. And to a lot of people, hers just doesn't equate with the amount of fame and popularity she's receiving.

And for the record, I do write frequently. ;)

My goodness this discussion just keeps going in circles.

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Originally Posted by Homers_child

But see, the thing is, the 'story' is the only thing that got her famous. The quality of the writing when you actually evaluate it is not that good.

I read Twilight the first time and I was intrigued by it. But when I tried to read it again, all I noticed was how sucky it was written. Without the mystery/love story, the book has nothing. )

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I have to say, I agree with this. The story is intriguing and that's what carries the popularity of the book. The writing itself is of rather poor quality. Grammatically, it's painful. And this in itself shows how the novel has it's use- it's a nice story. That's all. And really, do some degree, that's all it needs.

If we were to say, think of a piece of literature like a cake (I know this sounds lame, but it's the closest analogy I could find):

Anyone can make a cake. Bake batter in a pan. It may be bare bones and require no skill to make, but it's still a cake and it still tickles your sweet tooth. Then there's the master baker's cake. Layers of cake and custard and fruit and icing and chocolate with all kinds of adornments. Every little detail is there and eating it is an experience unto itself. You pay attention when you eat it.

The classic, renowned works of literature are these master cakes. It's a carefully, masterfully adorned work of character and story and setting and every other device down to the most minute detail all laid out in seamless prose. And almost everyone can read and agree that this is true art. But it doesn't mean that a novel with a story and nothing else does not still serve a purpose.

Reading Thomas Hardy is for me, a moving experience. But it doesn't mean that reading Twilight in one sitting doesn't strike my fancy in a different way.

And as I said, just because you don't have the time, patience, skill, whatever to bake the master confection doesn't mean there's anything wrong with a piece of plain white vanilla cake.

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Originally Posted by Beautifull

HAVE YOU READ ANY OF HER OTHER BOOKS BESIDES THOSE VAMP BOOKS?!!

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Don't care to.

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jeez, can't you understand that its not what the book is about but the quality of how she put it together?

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The way she put it together is rather simple, and without any originality.

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yeah i understand you don't like the story...but the book was made to bring an escape to fantasy world,in a manner of speaking...

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So can any other book.

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yeah i understand you didn't like guy-perfect and nerdy girl-laid thing, but to each his own.

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You're right, but I'm giving you my opinion, as that is what you ask for in this thread.

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have you even tried to write a story of your own..maybe then you'll see what i'm talking about, it's not so easy to make your characters come to life.
what i'm saying is Stephenie has a knack of making her book seem near real, making a world where things don't seemed planned out by an author, but it's almost real;believable.

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I've written on my own and it was rubbish. So is what Stephenie Meyers writes. I could probably get the junk I write published if I aimed it at a drooling audience; it's all business--Stephenie Meyers is a businesswoman, a capitalist. She knows how to advertise and she knows how to strike the hearts of pubescent girls.

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if you can't see that, i pity you!!!

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All right.

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Originally Posted by Beautifull

HAVE YOU READ ANY OF HER OTHER BOOKS BESIDES THOSE VAMP BOOKS?!!:flare::rage:

jeez, can't you understand that its not what the book is about but the quality of how she put it together?

yeah i understand you don't like the story...but the book was made to bring an escape to fantasy world,in a manner of speaking...

yeah i understand you didn't like guy-perfect and nerdy girl-laid thing, but to each his own.

have you even tried to write a story of your own..maybe then you'll see what i'm talking about, it's not so easy to make your characters come to life.
what i'm saying is Stephenie has a knack of making her book seem near real, making a world where things don't seemed planned out by an author, but it's almost real;believable.

if you can't see that, i pity you!!!

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Basically both the quality and the story are mediocre at best.

Her fantasy world is unrealistic.

Both Edward and Bella and everyone else are Mary/Marty sues with no real personality.

I do write and to be honest her work is NOT realistic, it reads like a cheap fanfic or even My Immortal (If you haven't read it, then google it, I'll bet you'll like it)

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Originally Posted by JBI

That wasn't my point - at least there reading automatically lowers the bar, and makes reading essentially books for 12 year olds the standard of literacy. If we praise things that have no complexity inside them, or no depth, then ultimately, reading as a whole is degraded, and quite simply, if Twilight is the standard, then I hardly think reading is even worth saving. I assure you, few respect literary culture as much as I do - my adolescence, in effect, was essentially constructed out of it - but to degrade it so is just silly.
Of course, reading is difficult, but there are plenty of texts, such as Housman's verse, which require minimal knowledge of the language to really appreciate - though, they often take a sort of willingness to be open minded on the part of the reader. But I don't quite see that in Twilight, in the sense that Mozart's music can often be very, very simple in its style, that any child can hum the tune, yet even then, I wouldn't consider a popsong by The Backstreet Boys to be an "at least they are listening to music".

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The vampire books of Stephenie Meyer aren't silly - or at least not sillier than the Tarzan and Winnetou Stuff I read when I was 12 years old. They're just children's literature like Harry Potter, Eragon, Lord of the Rings. That children's literature seems to become standard of literature results imho from a infantilization of culture as a whole. Consumption patterns and cultural preferences of children and teens have been increasingly taken over by adult age groups. Being mature has become worthless, everyone (or at least a lot of people I know) wants to stay as young and as childish as possible. It's not the fault of Stephenie Meyer ...

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Originally Posted by amarna

The vampire books of Stephenie Meyer aren't silly - or at least not sillier than the Tarzan and Winnetou Stuff I read when I was 12 years old. They're just children's literature like Harry Potter, Eragon, Lord of the Rings. That children's literature seems to become standard of literature results imho from a infantilization of culture as a whole. Consumption patterns and cultural preferences of children and teens have been increasingly taken over by adult age groups. Being mature has become worthless, everyone (or at least a lot of people I know) wants to stay as young and as childish as possible. It's not the fault of Stephenie Meyer ...

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Its not the Fault of Meyer but she is profiting from the ignorance you just stated with a horribly written fantasy book. People that see the ignorance in society should stand up and fight it instead of just giving in.

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Originally Posted by kevinthediltz

Its not the Fault of Meyer but she is profiting from the ignorance you just stated with a horribly written fantasy book. People that see the ignorance in society should stand up and fight it instead of just giving in.

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I agree but anyway I don't have the slightest clue how to fight an army of giggling 30-year-old Peter Pans. And I'm not sure if there isn't something like a human right to bad taste, silliness and infantilism which has to be respected.

I'm not saying fight everyone and try to take down Meyer. Just dont support her writing if you dont like it or think that it fuels a generation of idiots like you posted above. I'm not telling you to hate people for reading Meyer. Just dont buy her work if you disagree with who it profits from.

(By the way, when it first came out I borrowed "Twilight" from a friend of mine to see what the fuss was about. I got through almost 20 pages before I just couldnt stand to read another word. And that was my experiance with Meyer.)

Why don't we all ban and burn comedy movies while we're at it? chick flicks, trashy horrors? and just leave the masterpieces. WE NEED TRASH. I don't like Twilight very much but it is extremely imaginitive and at least it gets kids reading. When i was younger i used to read trash, it took some growing up and time for my taste to evolve but at least it got me reading in the first place.

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Originally Posted by limajean

Why don't we all ban and burn comedy movies while we're at it? chick flicks, trashy horrors? and just leave the masterpieces. WE NEED TRASH. I don't like Twilight very much but it is extremely imaginitive and at least it gets kids reading. When i was younger i used to read trash, it took some growing up and time for my taste to evolve but at least it got me reading in the first place.

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Could not agree more.

It seems that you can not win. If you don't read look out. Oh and if you do read it better be the right sort of books or else. Let people read and enjoy what they like. There is nothing wrong with reading Twilight and loving it (I did) and there is nothing wrong with reading it and not liking it.

What happened to reading books cos you enjoy the story? The majority of the world doesnt give a {expletive deleted} about literary form & technique. It doesnt really matter. People read for enjoyment, the same way they listen to music for enjoyment, or do any past-time for enjoyment, relaxation or escapism from the mundanity of life for a while. If you enjoy picking apart the bones and examining why a writer does such and such a thing thats fine, whatever floats your boat, but there is no need to belittle & deride people for having no interest in doing so.

I for one cant stand Joyce & would far rather pick up grisham. Have no time for mozart & want Del Amitri & the beautiful south instead. I would frankly kill myself if I woke up one day & everyone was poring over Milton & listening to Beethoven.

It's one thing to read what you enjoy, but to say that Stephenie Meyer is a good writer is simply false.