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Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. oh and by the way...Amen. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelheid
You poor unbelieving people... How God loves you and longs for you to understand His perfect ways... If you would but repent...
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." -Jim Elliot, Christian missionary and martyr for the cause
All of us are going to die someday, that's a fact... and who can say exactly what happens in the moments after death... but, I would rather believe wholeheartedly in a God that does not exist, that to deny one that does.
I pray for you all... those of you who know the truth, please do the same... for how our world could change if all of us who say we are sons and daughters of CHrist, would but obey our father... we are called to bring others to Him and to crucify our sins, not to sin and expect him to forgive us when we do nothing.
My heart cries out for you all...Praise be to the Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit
Since you have already been to hell, would you feel outraged, if I sent you back?
If one leads a moral life without following a religion, surely there is no need to fear death? As said Isaac Asimov, "I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse." :) His last words were something similar, "Although the time of death is approaching me, I am not afraid of dying and going to Hell or (what would be considerably worse) going to the popularized version of Heaven. I expect death to be nothingness and, for removing me from all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism. "Quote:
All of us are going to die someday, that's a fact... and who can say exactly what happens in the moments after death... but, I would rather believe wholeheartedly in a God that does not exist, that to deny one that does.
:)
But who knows the truth? And after all, what is truth? Remember the Bible story that states that someone asked "what is truth" and even Jesus didn't dare answer...Quote:
I pray for you all... those of you who know the truth, please do the same...
Quote:
In general, on the simple account, truth - unlike beauty, in some people's view - does not lie in the eye of the beholder. Nor does it lie in the beliefs of a believer, or in whether or not we know what the facts are. Believing something to be true does not make it true, for beliefs themselves can be false as well as true.
Who is to say that God has not got an infinity of endlessly creative and effervescent spatial and intergalactic opportunities for all of us.... you who would constrain God to the popularly conceived image are so damned short-sighted that it is no wonder that you are ultimately going to be DAMNED! :rage:
Religion is absurd, since nobody can work out (even only in his mind) an experience demonstrating God's non existence, we understand how this notion is logically meaningless.
On the other hand if one says "iron can float on water" I can think of a way to demonstrate that it's false, and then put it into practice.
Moreover, if you say "Jupiter has a mass of x kg" I can find an experiment, even though I were not capable of doing.
Whereas, if you say, "electrons have an inner structure" I cannot think of an experiment, neither could I do it.
So, believing that, is absurd.
I am humble, man can only rely on his logic skills, so religion is absurd.
Anyway I'll show you what Leopardi thought of the "new believers"
"Racquetatevi amici. A voi non tocca
Dell’umana miseria alcuna parte,
Chè misera non è la gente sciocca"
"Be calm, friends. Any part of human misery
is not for you
since foolish people are not miserable"
We understand what you are meaning in general, but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxos
...iron can actually float on water.
Surface tension, you know.
pi, you said it yourself,
"who can say exactly what happens".
Swiftsleigh,
"you who would constrain God to the popularly conceived image are so damned short-sighted that it is no wonder that you are ultimately going to be DAMNED!" is a little harsh.
Maxos, I have seen iron filings float on gasoline.
People please if you are going to denigrate certain beliefs or non-beliefs here this topic will have to be closed.
Why did you remove my latest post?
Inquisition ended long time ago.
Maxos, the Forum Rules have been here since the day you joined, maybe you just forgot to read them. :)
You are christian, scantet so.
I have myself experienced - as I suppose most of you know :blush: - intolerance towards certain beliefs in modern society...but people never change. If some people feel the need of a god, let them feel it, let them do what they like. Let them educate their children to believe in the same god, and thus have their religion passed on and on, long after the first landing on the moon is rendered possible by science (sorry to those whom I remember to believe otherwise ;)), long after the advent of computers, telivisions, artificial intelligence...perhaps until the end of mankind. It's alright, even if a belief is incorrect, even if people have a view on truth that is a little different from what actually is. But if religion clashes with science, if creationists bombard the world with a "science" that is equivalent to pigs flying, if the masses are educated to despise those who disbelieve in their religion (or even non-religion), in short if religious strife channels through the world, how is there ever going to be such a thing as world peace? Think of the Crusades, the "Holy Wars", all the blood lost for religion. Pointless, cruel, don't you agree? My point is, being an atheist is perfectly moral...but what's the point of it if we can't tolerate other people's beliefs, however ill-founded they are? What's the point of any religion if it doesn't help people to be good to one another, to be kind to themselves? Let Christians pursue Christianity, let Jews be Jews, let Muslims be Muslims, and let atheists be atheists. There is no point in arguing about it, it only makes us hot-blooded and intolerant of others. Let's simply accept that people are different and have different needs and views. Christians should be able to accept that certain people don't mind being "damned" and atheists should be able to accept that even in the twenty-first century it is possible for people to believe in gods and witches and ghosts...we are, after all, all human. Being of a particular belief or non-belief doesn't mean that we are in any way more wise than others, just because we seem to know better...we'll always have equally strange ideas at times in our lives as the idea of God or the idea of no God (depending on your view of what is strange of course), and be whole-heartedly foolish at others.
After all, as the saying goes: to err is human, to forgive divine. To forgive mistakes in others, to forgive misunderstandings, to forgive offence. Let's finally understand that nobody is perfect.
I think I've said enough.
Eloquently put MissDarcy :)
I don't want to be moral.
I don't want to be tolerant in words on the net.
This is every-day-life business.
And I don't need a teacher.
Mein guter meister.
Moreover, you make the thing too simple, in your opinion the secret for living in peace and happy is toleration, my good lady, it is exactly the inverse: happiness induces toleration, but that is sociology not philosophy.
Further on, creeds are not simply opinions, creeds are a way of interpretating reality and, as a result, of behaving, creeds mean social advancement, for instance, in Italy Christianity is lately newly raising, adding the fact that Europe is meeting a period of economic recession, the whole situation is read as a revival of an Italy we believed to have disappeared.
Reality is very very very very complex, I cannot afford simplifying.
I would ask Jesus why he was so cruel to Judas. In front of all the rest of the disciples at the Last Supper, he created a situation in which one of them would be forced to either betray him or prove him a liar. Of course, a disciple therefore had to betray him. Then, Jesus allowed Judas to be cast as a monster by those that wrote the gospels.
Drama has its own rules, my friend.
WoOoOoOW. hmmm.....
well, my parents used to be missionaries in Indonesia, and my brother and sister and I were all pretty much raised there until I was five. In case you haven't heard on the news, Indonesia is filled with radical Muslims and terrorists, and my family was saved from countless dangers. One time, there was a riot outside of my sister's daycare, and we think my dad might have been poisoned one time.
Anyway, after crying and everything, I'd thank him over and over for all He's given me, even though I don't deserve it. Oh, and I'd thank Him for giving me hands and a voice.
"And men loved darkness rather than the light" (John; and ironically quoted by Leopardi in his "Ginestra" (Wild Broom))
That is a really good question...
I know when I am studying with friends or by myself that I think of certain things:
Some that come to mind, if I get to meet Him and chat with Him:
Why does God not directly forbid slavery? Why does He not specifically state "Thou shalt not commit slavery?"
He kind of addresses it for His chosen people in the books of law but not directly...
Why is Daniel mentioned in His Hebrew name consistently (not Belteshazzar) while Hanania, Mishael and Azariah are referred to more by their Babylonian names Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego? This question is silly but I still wondered.
I know that there are more questions. There is a lot of stuff I just don't get, but that's okay 'cause at some point I have to step back an realize I am a finite being trying to understand the infinite God and Creator of the universe. Sometimes I burn dinner so how can I expect to completely understand the infinite God.
I read a comment what questioned if dinosaurs exist and actually the bible talks about dinos with two different names: Leviathan and Behemoth. Our secular texts state that the most "explainable reason" for dinos disappearing was a meteor hitting earth some years ago. Secular texts also stated that dinos and humans did not live together, but billions of years apart, however it is not backed with science (measurable, verifiable data). I think the more indicated data from science, which the bible is consistent with, is a universal flood (remember Noah's Ark) that changed the known world at the time to what we see today. Did you know that all civilizations have some form of a flood myth? Different myths but still all involving lots of water. Read that part of Genesis carefully and write down your questions. :)
Some one asked why Jesus did not "save" everyone? I am not sure what they were referring to: do you mean now? or do you mean while He was "God-man"(as someone else referred) and doing His ministry?
If your question is regarding His time on earth doing His ministry that is simple... Jesus knew He only had three years to do what He came to do: make an eternal impact on people and die for our sins. He continued to tell His people He only had so long to do this thing. He certainly had the capability to heal the worlds hurt: sickness, demons, etc. but that was not his target. Did you notice that each time that He healed someone or "saved" them, if you will, He had something to be taught that directly related. Jesus did not come to heal everyone of their lack of sight, leprosy, demon possession (all worldly temporal hurts); He came to heal our hearts from Sin (the eternal)! It is very clear that despite all the signs and wonders many people believed one day and the next joined the crowds to stone Him to death. Jesus did not come to heal absolutely everyone because that was not His goal: we chose sin and satan over God and what He intended for us. Jesus came to fill that gap to put it simply. Jesus paid the price, that was His goal, that was His target. He did not come to heal the inconvenient worldly stuff which is temporal, but to heal the broken heart, the heart broken by sin so that we could have a chance to live eternally in heaven with God.
For those of you who are trying to interpret the book of Revelation, which was written by John (not Paul, but for credit Paul is highly suspected to have written more than half the new testament), please do not hold any of what you think it might be saying as true. Do you remember what the religious elite thought of the old testament prophets to Jesus' time of the prophesies of His coming, His life and His second coming? Do you remember that they were totally wrong. Guys, that's the way prophesy works. Hindsight is better than forsight. It will make sense when it's all said and done.
Grace and Peace to you.
Become informed, consider Christ today.
I'd show him a red-letter edition Bible. I'd take him to a couple of church services. I'd sit him down in front of the TV to watch some tele-preaching. I'd have him read the Religious Texts forum.
Then I'd ask him what he thought.
"Dude! Is it true, all that crazy stuff Milton said about your dad?"
I would ask him if he's sad that people worship him as a god [god, or son of god, or both, or...which is it???], when he's really just a prophet of God.
I would ask, "where the >>>> have you been hiding?"
I would thank him for the ability to love
I'd simply ask "Who's right?"
'Am I dead then?'
Nothing really, I doubt I would be interested in any deeper conversation with him - maybe shalom.
I wouldn't say anything at all. I'd just stare at him with a small yet meaningful smile on my face. I mean what do you say to Jesus?
"Hello there pet, how yer doing?"
Me: "Hello"
Jesus: "..."
Me: "My name is Patrick. It's a pleasure to meet you."
Jesus: "..."
Me: "So...what line of work are you in?"
:lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hahaha, I found that rater funny...
The first thing I would ask him is "Are you proud of me?"
The next thing I would ask him is, "Could you please clarify to certain denominations and individuals that you were serious about that whole 'Judge not lest ye be judged, love your neighbor as yourself, God is love...' thing?"
Seriously.
Who knows, I might just ask him if he wanted a cup of tea :) but seriously I don't think I could frame my lack of understanding into a coherent question. Perhaps I would ask if the world made sense to him. I'd find it pretty comforting if it did because it makes none to me.
Hehe, Dapper... :lol:
Sorry, it just made me smile.
"My Lord."
I simply would ask him why was he silent seeing things of miseries with no concerns.
1st thing: "Thank you."
2nd thing: "I'm sorry."
"tell me everything"..uh
I was thinking about this for a while.
There's nothing to say, really.
The more I thought, the more I realized there's no way god exists, which leads me to thinking, if he was real and if I saw him, I wouldn't believe it was him.
Sad, really.