Can someone please help me understand portraits?
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Can someone please help me understand portraits?
What is there not to understand?
Stlukesguild, I have something for you as I have noticed your obsession with nudity. Mahlon Blaine’s and Nova Venus.
Ironically, young people are not obsessed with nudity…….but it is obsession for 40+. :rofl:
His drawing # 17 “Laughter become scorn, life a combat”……..expresses it all. :lol:
http://www.all-art.org/art_20th_century/mahlon1.html
This, and Beardsley, and Rops, and Franz von Bayros are certainly what were referred to in the old 19th/early 20th century come-on: "Come on up and let me show you my etchings."
I'm obsessed with nudity. Just sayin'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
I didn’t know those chaps. It is hard to call them artist. :D BTW, I didn’t know that Félicien Rops was a freemason and a member of the Grand Orient of Belgium.
Well, preoccupation with sex, lesbians and much more from very sick minds.
Are they your favorite? :devil:
Franz von Bayros
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...anz_von_Bayros
Félicien Rops
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...%A9licien_Rops
...preoccupation with sex, lesbians and much more from very sick minds.
Are they your favorite?:devil:
I don't know how "sick" they were. I doubt they were any more obsessed with sex than artists of any other period... however spurred on by the times, sex had become a theme which could be tackled far more openly than in the past.
Are they favorites of mine? Far from it. My favorite artists of the period would include Manet, Degas, Monet, Odillon, Gauguin, Van Gogh, Bonnard, Vuillard, Munch, Klimt, Schiele, etc...
Stlukesguild, I have something for you as I have noticed your obsession with nudity.
I won't deny this. As an artist the nude is my primary subject matter... and has been one of the primary themes of the whole of art. On the other hand... unless you count the near-naked Christ being taken down from the cross or a few putti, the only nudity in the post above was in Ruben's Allegory of Peace and War.
Well, if you can’t see how sick is that….I can’t help you. :biggrin5: Second, don’t project your issues upon other artists. Not ever artist was obsessed with sex. It is a big difference between sick minds of the artists I posted and a mind who appreciates beauty and love.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
First, I didn't talk about you last post but we had a conversation on Public Nudity thread. Second, don’t try to hide behind being and an artist. You are art teacher, aren’t you? You know much more artists than I and you know their paintings. There is a number of painters who were psychologically challenged, and luckily, they don't constitute the majority. I don’t care if they had a talent if their art reflects their sick mind. :eek6:Quote:
I won't deny this. As an artist the nude is my primary subject matter... and has been one of the primary themes of the whole of art. On the other hand... unless you count the near-naked Christ being taken down from the cross or a few putti, the only nudity in the post above was in Ruben's Allegory of Peace and War.
St Lukes - your contributions to threads with your breadth and knowledge of art are admired from the many posts I've seen complimenting you. I just thought I'd add this after reading how someone has tried to set you up.
Keep up the good work.
LOL! That’s a direct communication. I didn’t try to set stlukesguild up. I have noticed that you have a problem when I honestly express my thoughts and concerns.......Nothing has changed since we have had a conversation about Buddhism where you couldn’t digest that I had a very different opinion. :brow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulclem
Don’t forget change is inevitable….misery optional.
I have a gift for you.....a different painter but the same theme.
An allegory of Truth and Time (1584-5), Royal Collection, London, Annibale Carracci.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CA...e_(1584-5).JPG
Well, if you can’t see how sick is that….I can’t help you. Second, don’t project your issues upon other artists. Not ever artist was obsessed with sex. It is a big difference between sick minds of the artists I posted and a mind who appreciates beauty and love.
I think perhaps you need to learn a bit about art history before you start making such statements. Caravaggio, the father of the Baroque in painting... surely recognized as one of the greatest artists in history...
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...o_deathmed.jpg
... began his career by pandering homoerotic images of prepubescent boys to high-ranking clergy with a taste for such.
Gauguin... one of the seminal figures in the transition from 19th century art (and the whole of the Post-Renaissance focus upon the illusion of reality) to Modernism died of syphilis as a result of any number of sexual trysts with prepubescent girls in Tahiti.
Do I need to bring up Picasso, Matisse, Renoir, Rodin, Klimt, Schiele, etc...
Artists are no less "obsessed" with sex than anybody else. In some cases this obsessing may verge upon the pathological... but I don't think I'd want you in charge of deciding which sexual passions are acceptable and which are "sick".
Until the period of Romanticism, most art was created on commission and thus if a painter employed an erotic theme it was in response to the demands of the patron. Michelangelo's erotic passions famously drew a good deal of criticism when included in the Sistine frescoes. It was not until the late 19th century that art allowing an open exploration of sexuality (and I'm excluding non-Western and pre-Medieval art here) was allowed.
Goya's famous Naked Maja is perhaps the first image that displays the existence of pubic hair... and was commissioned for one of the most powerful figures in Spain at the time. Even so, Goya was summoned and interrogated by the Inquisition.
Beardsley's prints were repeatedly ran afoul of the censors. Klimt's nudes... painted in the 20th century... earned him criticism from the officials of the academic art establishment of Vienna, while Schiele's cost him a stay in prison.
Bayros and Rops are both minor figures in the history of art... and along with Beardsley they tapped into a demand for titillation and eotica not far removed from today's pornography... albeit with a greater degree of aesthetic sophistication. I'm not willing to jump to conclusions about their "sick" sexual obsessions based upon their art work for the simple reason that I don't see art in a Freudian manner as an autobiography in which we may analyse the personality of the artist. Schiele painted some of the most graphic and some of the most disturbing nudes... and yet from all I have read of him, he was rather conservative in his personal life... happily married and little by way of any suggestion of affairs or illicit sexual conduct.
Awwwwwww snap, school's in session!
Ditto.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulclem
I also like ftil's technique of throwing in an emoticon after every jab. Every insult comes with plausible deniability. "Insult? That wasn't an insult! Look at the emoticon, I was just joking!"
Quote:
Originally posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
Ditto.
I also like ftil's technique of throwing in an emoticon after every jab. Every insult comes with plausible deniability. "Insult? That wasn't an insult! Look at the emoticon, I was just joking!"
You are making assumption like Paulclem. It sounds that it is also your modus operandi. :biggrin5: Don’t waste your and my time. I have been on a few forum where I have learned all methods to stop, silence, or distract members. Very primitive methods indeed. Interstingly enough, they were masons or occultists…very clever indeed but being clever doesn’t mean being smart. It didn’t take that long to see their games. :rofl:
BTW, you may not like using emoticons. You may have suppressed your feelings so that there is no need to use emoticons. :rofl:
Enjoy LItNet forum and find likeminded people.
No, I studied about artists enough and it is not of my interest what "authority" says. In fact, I was laughing sometimes when I read their interpretation, therefore, I never read about the artist before I can see his or her art as I don’t want to be influenced by “educated” interpretations. Only the artist or the sponsor can talk about the art, everything else is a pure speculation.Quote:
Originally posted by stlukesguild
I think perhaps you need to learn a bit about art history before you start making such statements. Caravaggio, the father of the Baroque in painting... surely recognized as one of the greatest artists in history...
Yes, Carravagio was one of the greatest painters and he was suffering from mental illness but it is not that kind of illness I was talking about. Don’t even try to compare Franz von Bayros, Félicien Rops, Shiele, or Klimt with Carravagio, Michelangelo, or Renoir to name a few.
I think that maybe you should learn bit about psychology to understand what obsession and psychological health means. As I said not every artists was obsessed with sex. Please don’t repeat like a broken records your arguments. Think harder or give up.Quote:
Artists are no less "obsessed" with sex than anybody else. In some cases this obsessing may verge upon the pathological... but I don't think I'd want you in charge of deciding which sexual passions are acceptable and which are "sick".
.Quote:
talbeit with a greater degree of aesthetic sophistication
LOL! We definitely have a different sense of beauty. Their art is nothing else but ugly and reflect their sick mind.
W a r n i n g
Please do not discuss each other but the topic at hand.
Off topic posts will be deleted without further notice.
:smilewinkgrin:
...it is not of my interest what "authority" says.
In other words, you are not interested in what others who know more about a given topic have to say.
I was laughing sometimes when I read their interpretation...
Because, of course, your own interpretation... which ignores any inconvenient facts that may be brought to the topic by someone a bit more versed than yourself is irrelevant... are naturally far better.
I don’t want to be influenced by “educated” interpretations.
That's clear enough.
Only the artist or the sponsor can talk about the art...
So why are you talking? Hmmm... in fact of the two of us here which one is actually a working and exhibiting artist?
The reality is that art is open to interpretation by anyone... however, having some knowledge of the history of the artist, the period and tradition in which he or she worked, etc... is useful in developing a more accurate interpretation.
Don’t even try to compare Franz von Bayros, Félicien Rops, Shiele, or Klimt with Carravagio, Michelangelo, or Renoir to name a few.
All artists are open to comparison. I find it telling, by the way, that you would throw a pair a major Modernist painters such as Klimt and Schiele in with Rops and Bayros.
Gustav Klimt was the leading figure in the visual arts in Vienna at the turn of the 19th century. After having visited Ravenna and viewed the mosiacs there with their use of decorative pattern and gold, Klimt began to employ similar elements in his painting. His portraits were in high demand by the wealthy elite of Vienna...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8423/7...7059c94d_m.jpg
... while the most famous of Klimt's paintings, The Kiss, is the single most reproduced work of art... beyond even the Mona Lisa...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8166/7...15930101_m.jpg
These two facts alone would seem to indicate that Klimt was a little more than some minor deviant as you would have us believe. Regardless of your personal preferences and beliefs... unhampered as they are by the facts... Klimt is one of the most respected and influential artists of the 20th century.
He may have shocked the conservative establishment of Vienna with his more sexually daring works... such as Hope... one of the first paintings to portray a pregnant nude... But of course this painting, like most of Klimt's nudes, offered something far more than mere titillation. In this case, he sought to convey the hope of birth and new life brought into a world filled with evil and death... seen lurking in the background...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8151/7...99e2b178_m.jpg
Even so... Klimt was admittedly a sensualist who had multiple affairs with his models. He absolutely worshipped women and his primary theme as an artist was his awe before the power of women's sexuality...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8282/7...3dba77cf_n.jpg
Beyond this, Klimt was the most important decorative painter of the era... and a major landscape artist...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8164/7...76a63c31_m.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7134/7...f7f436a7_m.jpg
Klimt brought to Impressionism a sort of elegant decorative design and daring composition.
Egon Schiele, the younger peer and pupil of Klimt in many ways, brought to his art a wiry mastery of line, an angst, and a sort of simultaneous attraction and repulsion from or horror of the flesh, that echoed German Gothic art, and pointed the way toward German Expressionism.
Klimt is acknowledged by artists and art lovers as a master draftsman...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8008/7...734712d1_n.jpg
Like the sculptor Rodin, and Klimt before him, Schiele was able to capture the unexpected poses... often seething with an unbridled sexuality... by allowing his models to simply move about the studio according to their own whims.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8004/7...837de1fd_n.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7136/7...8f3dd88b_n.jpg
In spite of the artist/model relationship that many artists over the years have taken advantage of, Schiele, from all reports, maintained a strictly professional relationship with his models. Quite often, while working, he was accompanied by his long-term lover, Wally... and later his wife, Edith.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7273/7...155667ed_n.jpg
He was actually with his wife when the incident occurred that led to his arrest for "indecency". Schiele and his wife wished for a break from the confines of the city, and so they left Vienna for a stay in a small rural town, accompanied by one of their models. The residents of this town, having less liberal concepts with regard to nudity reported the goings-on in Schiele's studio to the authorities and the police raided the studio, arrested Schiele and seized a good number of drawings. He spent nearly a month in jail awaiting trial for indecency. The most serious charges were dismissed as it became clear that there was no suggestion of Schiele having sex with his model, but he was fined for contributing to the deliquency of a minor for having erotic drawing on display where a minor might have seen them. Just to drive the point hoome, the judge burned one of the drawings in the courtroom. An act that some of today's more prudish critics would undoubtedly agree with.
Schiele's career ended tragically... just as he was beginning to develop a real ability for painting (He had long been a talented draftsman... but struggled as a painter). He, his wife, and their infant son all succumbed to the Spanish Influenza epidemic of the period following WWI.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8020/7...269230d7_n.jpg
Both Klimt and Schiele are major figures in the history of 20th century painting. While neither may be as much of a towering figure as Caravaggio or Michelangelo (and few artists are of such distinction), neither are they minor figures and sexual deviants best forgotten... as some would have us think.
LOL! You haven't learned yet that I am not a blind follower but I think independently. :rofl: How many times I have to repeat it?Quote:
In other words, you are not interested in what others who know more about a given topic have to say.
Because, of course, your own interpretation... which ignores any inconvenient facts that may be brought to the topic by someone a bit more versed than yourself is irrelevant... are naturally far better.
I choose from whom I want to learn and what I want to learn. If I read someone’s’ brain farts who tries so hard to interpret the painting…...I laugh out loud. Second, I am interested in learning about certain techniques and I love to learn about new artists. I need a name of the painter and a few words about the artist. I would never give up a pleasure to study on my own and if I have a question, I always ask. But since I am not an artist, it is not my priority to learn about techniques. I am more interested how images affect our mind. After all, Bruno’s The De vinculis in Genere is considered a cornerstone of modern political thought – on the par with Machiavelli’s Prince. In fact, many Anglo Saxon and Middle European historians and intellectuals consider De vinculis in genere modernity’s most intelligent and insightful political work.
Second, Carl Jung, godfather of art therapy, utilized art making process in therapy. He was Gnostic and his knowledge has come from the occult. Goethe, a mason, considered his Theory of Color more profound than his poetry. Rudolf Steiner, esotericist and founder of Anthroposophy, was very interested in his theory.
I definitely share masons or occults passion for art but my reason are very different than that of masons and occultist.
I don’t even want to talk about Klimt. Egon Schiele has a few interesting paintings but many of his paintings are disgusting.
BTW, a few months ago you wrote:
Quote:
You still haven't learned your lesson from Oscar Wilde:
The highest as the lowest form of criticism is a mode of autobiography. Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault.
Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the cultivated. For these there is hope. They are the elect to whom beautiful things mean only beauty.
There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written. That is all.
I don’t know if you remember what I said. I was laughing that I was choosing from whom I wanted to learn and I preferred to quote Bruno who understood art the same way as I do. I didn’t agree with Wilde but I didn’t explore it deeper. But thanks to you I connected Wilde, another mason, with the Félicien Rops, Franz von Bayros, or Franz von Stuck and aestheticism related to other movements such as symbolism or decadence. I understand his words. After all, he has to find justification for his perversions. :biggrin5:
Still, isn't a little close minded to not open oneself up to interpretations and art that one may not agree with or like? How can someone discover something new if not by steeping out of their comfort zone? I like plenty of art now that I never had an interest in before. If I never let myself explore other works I wasn't initially interested in, I'd still just be a Dali and Escher fan (not that I am not now).
I like to try to understand as much about any subject as I can, including what I don't like. I've learned that my opinion does not necessarily translate to an evaluation of a piece of art's worth. I don't really like the above pieces by Klimt posted above, but I get what their impact was (at least a little). Maybe someday I will like them, I don't know. I'll leave myself open, though.
Absolutely not! I wrote earlier that I had my own approach to art. Nobody was teaching me that but it was a result of my understanding of psychology and healing. I was surprised when I read Bruno’s work, a renaissance occultist and magician, who understood the art as I do. So, saying that it may be a little close minded is very wrong. We have to get back the control over our minds and not to blindly listen to “authority”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
I wrote earlier that I was laughing sometimes while I was reading someone’s brain farts. I read carefully, thought about it, and laughed. Only children or immature adults can't think critically. But a psychologically healthy adult moves into Critic stage of development at the age of 20. Many peole are locked in earlier stages of development and never reach this stage or Integrated Faith.
Don’t make assumptions that I don’t use my brain. I use it and I love using it. I am not afraid to question pseudo scholars or authority. People are close mined who blindly listen without questioning and researching the subject. Or using the human development terminology, they are at Literalist or Loyalist stage.
My point is that we have mind and we got it for a reason. People need to think independently and sharpen their critical thinking. Unfortunately, school doesn’t teach to think independently and critically.
I guess we can go back to art. Hopefully, St. Luke will bring new artists I don't know and I will enjoy looking at their art. But it was good to learn about Félicien Rops or Franz von Bayros to see how sick some artist can be. :D
Well, I didn't really say any of that, but okay.
After seeing these pictures, I looked into El Greco a little more, as I only knew of him by name. I love his bold use of colors, and while his style is simplistic, it manages to convey more emotion than many realistic pieces. After seeing his work, I was quite surprised to see he was a late 16th-early 17th century painter, since it looks more like something out of expressionism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88
From what I've read, he only did two landscapes, or at least only two still exist. One of them, The View of Teledo, is one of my favorite landscape paintings of all time.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rt_Project.jpg
LOL! You haven't learned yet that I am not a blind follower but I think independently. How many times I have to repeat it?
In other words... you think independent of the facts... or the facts that might contradict your own personal interpretations. Sounds like an approach taken by many with regards to politics.
By the way... I must agree with the comments per your use of emoticons. Such an excessive use comes off like a drum roll after a bad joke.
I am more interested how images affect our mind.
The problem is that there is no "our". Clearly you respond to art in a vastly different way than many others.
After all, Bruno’s The De vinculis in Genere is considered a cornerstone of modern political thought – on the par with Machiavelli’s Prince. In fact, many Anglo Saxon and Middle European historians and intellectuals consider De vinculis in genere modernity’s most intelligent and insightful political work.
Now that was certainly a major and wholly irrelevant digression. I almost found myself thinking (ala Monty Python) "And now for something completely different."
Carl Jung, godfather of art therapy, utilized art making process in therapy.
Who cares? Jung was probably a bigger idiot than Freud, and art therapy has nothing to do with art as created by professional artists.
Goethe, a mason, considered his Theory of Color more profound than his poetry.
Is there any point to these digressions? By the way... if Goethe did indeed believe this, he was wrong. Any artist will tell you that you'll learn far more about color theory by studying the a few paintings by Veronese, Rubens, Ingres, Monet, and Bonnard than from all the collected written theories by Goethe, Albers, and even Matisse.
(Matisse famously went on for pages in discussing his theory of color when asked. He was then told Picasso's answer to the same question about his color theory: "If I don't have red, I use blue." Matisse responded, "I wish I'd said that.")
I don’t even want to talk about Klimt. Egon Schiele has a few interesting paintings but many of his paintings are disgusting.
You forgot the key sentence in Wilde's preface to Doran Gray:
"It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors."
Your disdain and disgust say far more about you than they do about the art work of the artists in question.
I wrote earlier that I was laughing sometimes while I was reading someone’s brain farts. I read carefully, thought about it, and laughed. Only children or immature adults can't think critically. But a psychologically healthy adult moves into Critic stage of development at the age of 20. Many peole are locked in earlier stages of development and never reach this stage or Integrated Faith.
Now there's surely a subtle way to dismiss everything that you personally disagree with... you simply portray such as the product of immature or diseased thinking as opposed to your own advanced development and psychological good health.:rolleyes5:
I looked into El Greco a little more, as I only knew of him by name. I love his bold use of colors, and while his style is simplistic, it manages to convey more emotion than many realistic pieces. After seeing his work, I was quite surprised to see he was a late 16th-early 17th century painter, since it looks more like something out of expressionism.
Back in art school I became quite enamored of El Greco... in part because of his use of tall, narrow formats that I was intrigued with myself:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...on-elGreco.jpg
I was also fascinated with his bold, gestural brushwork... which indeed appears Modernist and Expressionistic. I agree that his use of color appears quite bold... but in actuality he was not much of a colorist. Indeed, he could have said as well as Picasso, "If I don't have red, I use blue." This may owe much to the fact that he studied under Tintoretto... who in spite of his name (his nick-name meant "little dyer" or "little colorist") was perhaps the single Venetian master who was not much attuned with color, and more concerned with the drama of light and dark):
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...h_21cruci1.jpg
Seeing his works in person as part of a major retrospective a few years back reinforced my recognition of how poor a colorist he was. The worst paintings almost come off like black velvet painting. Nevertheless... the strongest works... such as the View of Toledo... certainly do have a real power... and an almost unearthly, electric energy than one might term "visionary".
Still... I'd take Veronese in a pinch:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._Rennes400.jpg
By the way... for the experience of Baroque art that seems as if out of its time... give a listen to this... wait until the second movement...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9DJpaxT7wg
I'm a big fan of Veronese, and the Wedding at Cana is one of my favorite paintings--I've found I'm a fan of clutter, for lack of a better word. I love works with a lot going on, be it lots of people, objects, colors, etc. Anyways, I saw Wedding at Cana at the Louvre, and was blown away by its immensity. I loved the contrast of it with the Mona Lisa, which is displayed on the opposite wall of the big room (I know you've been there, of course, but maybe the set up has changed). I can't say the same for The Mona Lisa, which was quite underwhelming (a reaction I think most have when finally seeing the actual painting), though it was neat to see what is probably the most famous painting ever.
And I'll listen to that, but when I'm not fighting to stay awake (as my rambling paragraph shows).
I don’t have any idea where your interpretation of my words comes from. Hey, why don’t you read carefully my post ….:rofl:Quote:
In other words... you think independent of the facts... or the facts that might contradict your own personal interpretations. Sounds like an approach taken by many with regards to politics.
Thanks for good laugher. No feelings that need to be expressed???? Not healthy for physical and emotional well being.Quote:
By the way... I must agree with the comments per your use of emoticons. Such an excessive use comes off like a drum roll after a bad joke.
Quote:
The problem is that there is no "our". Clearly you respond to art in a vastly different way than many others.
Why don’t you read Giordano Bruno. The first to recognize the importance of Bruno’s text were the Rosicrucians, as indicated in the texts of P. Arnold and F. A. Yates on the movement’s history. He was very perceptitive into human nature and he made his observations from a different angle that modern psychology. I my reiterate that De Vinculis in Genere, is considered a cornerstone of modern political thought – on the par with Machiavelli’s Prince. In fact, many Anglo Saxon and Middle European historians and intellectuals consider De vinculis in genere modernity’s most intelligent and insightful political work.
You will understand why I said ‘our” :ihih:
Hey, you have missed my point again. Jung was Gnostic and he got his knowledge from the occult. Rossicrucians, masons, or Steiner and Antroposophy were very interested in occult work of Giordano Bruno and art. Connect the dots.Quote:
Who cares? Jung was probably a bigger idiot than Freud, and art therapy has nothing to do with art as created by professional artists.
You know very well that there are a number of painters who were/ are masons or occultists. I have posted a few of them on Mythology and Religion in Art thread but there are much more than that...... Try to think outside of the box. Everything is connected when we start paying attention. Fragmentation is not a good sign.
True. You maybe exited to watch Franz von Bayros’ version of masturbation, lesbian sex or his painting of a dog and a naked women. It is similar to India temple’s sculpture and sex with animals. I remember your excitement about sexual freedom in India. :reddevil: But I have a very different idea about beauty and love. I can’t be more clear than that.Quote:
Your disdain and disgust say far more about you than they do about the art work of the artists in question.
Quote:
Now there's surely a subtle way to dismiss everything that you personally disagree with... you simply portray such as the product of immature or diseased thinking as opposed to your own advanced development and psychological good health.
Hehehe……you mean that I don’t agree with you. You are right. I don’t but I don’t stop learning about art. I love art very much. BTW, I know several painters, very talented, and we don’t have any problem to understand each other. A few of them share my passion for psychology and think outside of the box. Like attracts alike. :p
So, why we go back to art. I have been looking at Jean Delville, (1867 – 1953), Belgian Occultist Symbolism and his painting School of Plato. Very intriguing indeed. All men have feminine feature except Plato. It is similar to Apollo, Dionysus, or Siva or Michelangelo's Ignudi at Sistine Chapel. We hear a lot about transgender. Well, collages even have course about that subject.
He must have been a prophet like Michelangelo, for example.......:rofl:
School of Plato
http://jeandelville.org/Paintings/Sc...lato/index.htm
More of his paintings.
http://jeandelville.org/Paintings/index.htm
Truth be told, I'm more interested in... I'm not sure how to put it. Art forms I haven't seen before.
This women is my favorite artist. It's hard to even call it performance art, but what it does to people is captivating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASS7xMOM1EE
Captivating. No. It is a new age version of “ being present in the moment” like Ophra's E. Tolle. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolte
Can you imagine how captivating was a glamour model at London Fashion Week? Programming people to new behavior in a full light!
Hat's on! But everything else is off... Pregnant glamour model walks the runway naked at London Fashion Week
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...hion-Week.html
I don't get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolte
I really feel I ought to mention this as; Ftil, you keep mentioning masons as if they were some occult sect with secret knowledge. My father is one, it is essentially a club of affluent and powerful and intelligent men of all walks of life - art, business , politics, lawyers, doctors et.c. It serves as an except social networking space, that is all, a bunch of influential men who meet each other and thus are able to help each other and scratch each others backs.
There is some religious element to it, but it is merely that one must believe in God to enter, but the God of the masons was the free-thinkers God, the god devoid of all the superficial inanities in all the abrahamic religions used to pander to the masses. At first it was a club were free-thinkers could discuss their religious ideas and politics without fear of persecution. Nowadays it is essentially a country club.
The internet is full of those consiprasists who say the Masons, are a secret religious sect which plan to conquer the world or have special knowledge of magic and know the powers of god. But truly let us think about this. This was born as a society were intelligent and educated and influential men could be free to discuss with each other their political and religious beliefs, sans persecutions. Is it such a surprise that the uneducated and superstitious men of the time believed that masonry was some sort of supernatural, secret knowing, society for devil worship?
As a person who knows my after and has met several of his friends who are part of it as well, it is hilarious to see such speculations on the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander III
Internet is full of conspiracies but who is going to believe conspiracy theories. :rofl: But I will tell you something. My grandfather, a man of brilliant mind, was very interested in masonry. He researched this subject very thoroughly. There was not Internet at that time but many books were written about masonry and masons had bad reputations for centuries. Do your research and you will be surprised how many books you will find. Anyway, I wanted to research that subject to make up my mind about masonry. I have started with "blue blood" masons and I found scandals and corruption. But I have also found Masonic the Royal Order of Jester and their sex scandals.
Royal Order of Jesters from Masonic museum.
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masoni...ters_plate.htm
A few examples.
This one was in Canada.Quote:
Several members of the organization in Western New York were charged with providing prostitutes for Jesters functions and transporting them across state lines. Retired State Supreme Court Justice Ronald Tills was sentenced to 18 months imprisonment in August 2009. Previously sentenced was former police captain John Trowbridge (two years probation) and Till's law clerk Michael Stebick (4 months home confinement).[5] The charges were limited to these members of the Buffalo chapter, and a Jesters spokesman stated that this conduct was confined to that chapter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Order_of_Jesters
From CBCnews.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/01...ner012901.html
There are more sex scandal and corruptions exposed but I don't want to waste my time for those bastards. Yes, they are well educated, judges, layers, or scientists.Quote:
Police launch Shriners investigation
There are several investigations underway concerning a raunchy Shriners fundraising event last week, and now the Winnipeg police are involved as well.
Last Thursday night, the Motor Patrol of the Khartum Shriners held a 'gentlemen's dinner' fundraiser at the Garden City Inn. Roughly 400 men paid $75 each for the event, which included exotic dancers.
Witnesses at the event say the dinner turned lewd when a naked woman began performing lap dances. Lap dancing was declared illegal by the Supreme Court three years ago. They also say one woman was lying nude on a table and a man inserted a beer bottle in her. Later, men were throwing money on the table and performing oral sex on the same woman. There are several investigations underway concerning a raunchy Shriners fundraising event last week, and now the Winnipeg police are involved as well.Last Thursday night, the Motor Patrol of the Khartum Shriners held a 'gentlemen's dinner' fundraiser at the Garden City Inn. Roughly 400 men paid $75 each for the event, which included exotic dancers.Witnesses at the event say the dinner turned lewd when a naked woman began performing lap dances. Lap dancing was declared illegal by the Supreme Court three years ago. They also say one woman was lying nude on a table and a man inserted a beer bottle in her. Later, men were throwing money on the table and performing oral sex on the same woman.There are four separate investigations into what happened at the dinner eventThere are four separate investigations into what happened at the dinner event The organizer of the event said money raised would go to help Shriners charities. But the Shriners executive says it didn't sanction the event, even though the liquor permit for the event used the Shriners name. So far, the Liquor Control Commission, the Garden City Inn and the Shriners have launched investigations into what happened that night. Now the Winnipeg police have entered the picture. "With what we've heard, and certainly what's been reported in the media, we have to look into it," says Inspector Gary Walker of the Winnipeg police. "There's significant interest in the community, and I think people want police to have a look at it." Manitoba's Minister of Justice, Gord Mackintosh, says the public needs to come forward to help police. "The allegations are disappointing and disturbing to me, and I urge anyone who believes they witnessed a criminal offence, to report that to police as good citizens."A spokesman from the Garden City Inn said today that as a result of the dinner, it will no longer allow strippers in its banquet room. No one from the Winnipeg Shriners would agree to an on-camera interview Monday.But the man in charge of all the Shriners in North America says he'll ask for an investigation.
"It's always bothered me that in a large organization where we have half a million members, the actions of a few individuals can tarnish the image of the majority who work so hard to do so much good," says Robert Turnipseed, the Imperial Potentate of the International Shriners, speaking to CBC News from Idaho.The local chapter of the Shriners says it will not be accepting any of the money raised through the dinner.
Again, do your research before telling people what they should think about masonry. I am not saying that every mason is like that. In fact, a mason in Texas a member of The Royal Order of Jesters said that many masons in his lodge were not aware was was going on in The Royal Order of Jesters. They love secrecy. :yikes:
Me neither. I wonder if it's a case of the emperor's new clothes, or am I missing something? Yes I am, the clothes are there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
Edit: Just imagine if one of them started sniggering. I hope they had deep cushions.
I really like the View of Toledo though. Never seen it before.
The French writer and art critic, André Malraux made a good number of observations concerning art that have remained with me for years:
There are no Sumerian, Egyptian, or Medieval hacks, but (our time is overrun with them).
Masterpieces were never the "best products of their period," and they seem to be connected only with each other, and to rejoin each other across time- sometimes very long periods. The best part of Rodin's work knows nothing of the three centuries preceding it but continues Donatello.
We know... that the pursuit of the divine is no assurance of genius, but genius cannot exist without it.
The artist can reach art only on the stairs of his highest values which he recognizes within his heart...
The matter of fact gods cannot replace those of profundity... money cannot replace god or spiritual longing as a source of passionate inspiration for the artist.
All great works of art are "original" but not in the modern sense of the word. For they are unique, and not unusual. Today "original" tends to mean "surprising"... the search for novelty... and the unusual.
For centuries religion... the Catholic Church and other religious/spiritual institutions... were the greatest patrons of the arts. There were, as Malraux suggested, few Medieval... and one might add few Renaissance "hacks" for the simple reason that the artists were largely employed in the honest expression of their highest beliefs and heart-felt faith.
One first discovers a wealth of hack-work in the field of painting during the Baroque period... especially in Holland. Where the French, Spanish, and Italian artists still labored for the aristocrats and the church... whether their art conveyed their unsullied faith in the infallibility of these institutions... or whether, like Bosch and Breughel (among others) they offered satirical critical commentary upon the same. The Dutch, however, turned painting into one more mass-produced commodity. They instituted the middle-man... the art dealer... and they promoted specializations in order to reach every possible market: "You want a landscape with cows?" We got a guy who paints just that." "You want a still-life painting with lobster and tropical fruit to convey your wealth?" We got that too." Rembrandt struggled... and in his later years slipped into obscurity and poverty for the simple reason that he could not paint for such a market. Even when he made an attempt... such as in these paintings of a young girl at the doorway... a subject any other "Little Dutch Master" would have rendered in a cloyingly cute manner... certain to attract the buyer...
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...h_a_broom_.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...Ohio/th_R3.jpg
Rembrandt was unable to avoid attempting something a bit more profound... a sense of the personality or character of the sitter... and a certain brooding meditation upon the temporal nature of youth and beauty.
All these thoughts came to bear as I stumbled upon the sculptor, Ana Maria Pacheco. I used to stumble upon new artists quite frequently when I played a game over at the art site I frequent, at trying to guess the mystery artist from a posted image. Unfortunately, programs such as TinEye...:
http://www.tineye.com/
eliminated the challenge. Nevertheless, during a recent image search I stumbled upon Ana Maria Pacheco's work.
Ana Maria Pacheco is a sculptor, painter, print-maker who was born in Brazil and works and resides in the UK. Her work is partly inspired by the troubled period of Brazil's history, culminating in the takeover by the military junta in 1964, to which she was an eyewitness. Pacheco is best known for her multi-figure groups of polychrome (painted) sculptures carved from wood. These often deal with social/political issues as well as questions of spirituality and mortality. The works themselves are at once darkly sinister, touching, and comic.
I brought up Malraux's comments and the notion of the church as patron of the arts for the simple reason that Pacheco's strongest work is undoubtedly a multi-figural installation created for Salisbury Cathedral, entitled The Longest Journey... which undoubtedly alludes to the journey from life to death... and whatever (if anything) awaits beyond.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ourney_070.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...y-pacheco1.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...e4af2870_b.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...1aac7b9d_b.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...289522d1_b.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...6d755fc0_b.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._145268058.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...268022_101.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...5266417_10.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...5266375_10.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...5266374_10.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...5266369_10.jpg
Pacheco's choice of medium: polychromed wood, alludes to the Spanish/Latin-American tradition of polchromed retables or altarpieces:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...edral_7132.jpg
-Retable of the Cathedral of Toledo, Spain
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...Catedral_4.jpg
-Retable of Turibius of Mongrovejo
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...32850e4a_b.jpg
-Retable of the Cathedral of Iglesia de Santa Ana in Maca
The simplistic forms of her carvings suggest the wood sculpture of the German Expressionists, such as E.L. Kirchner:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...h_27940341.jpg
They also offer a nod in the direction of the simple and honest work of folk artists... in a manner not unlike the work of Elie Nadelman:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ressed_600.jpg
Perhaps most importantly, Pacheco's work employs a clarity of form and simplicity of gesture commonly found in the work of medieval sculptors:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...Ohio/th_M1.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...Ohio/th_M2.jpg
This simplicity was demanded by the Church that looked to the visual arts as a means of conveying the essential narratives of the faith to a largely illiterate audience.
Malraux speaks of true "originality" as having little to do with novelty and striving for the latest astonishing effects. In contrast to many sworn-Modernists, Malraux recognized that contrary to the usual accusations of conservatism and reactionary tendencies, an artist may actually build upon the past... and even ignore the present and even generations that have preceded... and still achieve work of real merit... even genius. Pacheco avoids novelty and ornate or convoluted intellectual and/or visual complexities. Rather, she employs a "traditional" visual language capable of reaching an audience unfamiliar with the mental Onanism of Post-Modernist art and theory.
Her installation, The Longest Journey, is quite touching in its representation of the waiting figures... men, women, and children. The boat is some ways suggests the crossing over to an unknown shore... whether this be the crossing of the River Styx undertaken by Dante in the Comedia, or that in Max Beckmann's iconic Modernist masterpiece, Departure, to which the sculpture almost surely pays homage...
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hio/th_132.jpg
...or any number of folk tales and songs that allude to going down to the river and waiting to cross over to the other side.
Pacheco's work is worth exploring. Beyond The Longest Journey she has created memorable images of the often sinister powers that be and their abuse of those who they lord over:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...r-1081x784.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...e-1083x720.jpg
Perhaps intriguing to the literary lovers are Pacheco's allusions to various literary/poetic narratives... such as Aeneas fleeing the destroyed city of Troy and carrying his elderly father, Anchises... an image implied by Pacheco's Shadows of the Wanderer:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...Title-card.jpg
And then there is the Dark Night of the Soul, an image of suffering, brutality, and torture that is both a response to The Martyrdom of Saint Sebastian by the Pollaiuolo brothers, and to the great poem by the visionary Spanish poet, San Juan della Cruz:
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...log-763339.jpg
You can explore more of Pacheco's work at her website:
http://www.prattcontemporaryart.co.u...ria-pacheco-2/
I got to see this when it was installed at a gallery in Massachusetts a few years ago. Very affecting work. Your picture doesn't convey the imposing size of the sculptures: huge, heavy presences which make the scene seem all the more foreboding.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
This one cracked me up:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19349921
I couldn't help but thinking of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=NQevyIy8hzs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMpsM...eature=related
Ha! so that's what it looks like.
I had just overheard this today on the TV news at the airport waiting to board, but I didn't have a chance to actually see it.
The "restoration" is quite unusual a blend of St. Ignatius and a Teletubby.
Funny videos too.
I'm looking for a painting and I do not have the title or artist, and Google is not being helpful - so I'm hoping one of you might know the work.
I'm going to say it's Renaissance, but it may be Classical.
Three sections (panels) depicting Moses in three stages of life. The first one is him as an infant, the third is him leading the Jews out of Egypt - that's about all the details I have.
Thanks in advance!
"Three" and "panels" sounds like a Triptych? You might narrow your search under that category. Do you recall if the panels were connected or could it be you recalled three separate paintings in a series?
One example is the triptych of Moses and the burning bush:
http://www.artfinder.com/work/the-tr...-1/in/tag.oil/
If you are recalling images then perhaps the Moses series at the Sistine Chapel, by Perugio, Boticelli, Roselli and Signorelli but if this is something you saw in the flesh, then you wouldn't have forgotten the Sistine Chapel!
Other painters you might consider, that used Moses as a subject, include: Gentileschi, Veronese, Collantes, Poussin, Eckersberg, Romanelli, Subleyras. (from the old family bible illustrated with paintings)
Maybe St. Lukes or someone else will peg this.
I'll pass on anything else that comes to mind.
.
Hey, St. Luke's Guild, I can't find the thread for postin' your own art, please... where is it?
Anywho, here's a video with a most special appearance by Duchamp.
:coolgleamA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwc65bf99_o :drool5:
Stay on groovin' safari,
Tor
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo...4t4vo1_500.jpg
Aha, I found it!
It is a painting by 16th c. Flemish painter Peter Classens the Elder. "Moses Breaking Pharaoh's Crown"
A bit different from your recollection, but good to see you found it none the less.
Now that my thoughts are on Moses, I'm recalling the sculpture of Moses with horns by Michelangelo at San Pietro in Vincoli Rome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_(Michelangelo)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...in_Vincoli.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_(Michelangelo)
One of the fresocos at San Pietro in Vincoli :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._retouched.jpg