Is Quran Biased?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JonathanB

The Quran, like the Communist Manifesto, is an analysis of the human condition with a strong recommendation as to the appropriate action in the circumstances. It is not biased towards Muslims. It is saying all humans should follow its recommendations, which will mean they would then be Muslims.

---

The fact that the Quran implores people to give up their own beliefs and instead adopt Islam is bias. A universal piece of literature would not force people to give up their beliefs.

Quote:

---

Twenty years ago I studied modern Christian theology with a feminist theologian. Many women say they have found meaning and encouragement through being Muslims.

---

I never said they hadn't. Islam and the Quran is a long ways away from Goddess Worship and The Mists of Avalon, however.

I'm not saying it is wrong to refer to any given deity as a "He", I'm just pointing it out that said deity does not act from a female point of view.

Rather than say "The Quran is biased" why not say "Islam is intolerant and exclusive"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JonathanB

Rather than say "The Quran is biased" why not say "Islam is intolerant and exclusive"?

---

beacause the topic of this thread is whether or not the Quran is biased or not. This is a literature forum, not a forum for discussing the merits of any given religion.

Quran says: Oh MAnkind!
Quran says: Oh the Believers!
Quran says: Oh the Disbelievers!

Quran calls all. Otherwise it won't refer it as a guidance for 'mankind.'

Quran only prohibits friendship with those, who have fought the followers of truth on account of religion or made the Truthfuls leave their homeland. Otherwise, it says: Allah loves those, who deal in equity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sk A Hakim

Quran says: Oh MAnkind!
Quran says: Oh the Believers!
Quran says: Oh the Disbelievers!

Quran calls all. Otherwise it won't refer it as a guidance for 'mankind.'

Quran only prohibits friendship with those, who have fought the followers of truth on account of religion or made the Truthfuls leave their homeland. Otherwise, it says: Allah loves those, who deal in equity.

---

The Quran requires that all humans follow only one god, while completely disrespecting all others gods. Does the Muslim god love those who reject "him"?

Duplicate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

the question at hand in this thread is whether or not the Quran is biased. I have taken the position that it is. It explicitly excludes both non-Muslims and women from it's telling.

---

Many verses in third chapter of Quran mentions non muslims in a good light and portrays them as possessing positive attitude and appreciates their good characterisitc .

Exclusion of women? really? if that is case then why is chapter # 19 named after Saint Mary, another chapter #4 is titled as The Women and also why in other chapter 23 and 33 the issues pertaining discuseed in detail?

Quote:

---

The main character of the Quran (the Muslim god) is a male,

---

According to you? Well you are free to believe whether male or female but do not present your reasoning as facts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

as well as the main human characters which are also male (Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Adam, etc).

---

Womenfolk is consider a main part of Islam doctrines and literature, and appreciates their sacrifices and dignity. These Quranic verses considers and stresses on them ( Saint Mary, Pharoah`s wife, Prophets wives) being an ideal and an example, in piety, for the present and coming generations, male and female.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

faith in which god?

---

Which God you want to discuss on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

what's wrong with polytheism?

---

Have you even gone through the references give in post # 72? the references given there are sufficient enough to answer your whys and ifs regarding polytheism. If you had do let us know which translation you refer to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

Many verses in third chapter of Quran mentions non muslims in a good light and portrays them as possessing positive attitude and appreciates their good characterisitc .

---

does it portray polytheists in a positive light?

Quote:

---

Exclusion of women? really? if that is case then why is chapter # 19 named after Saint Mary, another chapter #4 is titled as The Women and also why in other chapter 23 and 33 the issues pertaining discuseed in detail?

---

how many other women characters are there?

Quote:

---

According to you? Well you are free to believe whether male or female but do not present your reasoning as facts.

---

does the Quran not use male pronouns when referring to the "God" character?

Quote:

---

Womenfolk is consider a main part of Islam doctrines and literature, and appreciates their sacrifices and dignity. These Quranic verses considers and stresses on them ( Saint Mary, Pharoah`s wife, Prophets wives) being an ideal and an example, in piety, for the present and coming generations, male and female.

---

"Womenfolk"? Are males and females presented as being equal in Quran? is there a male god and a female god?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

Which God you want to discuss on?

---

oh. that god.

Quote:

---

Have you even gone through the references give in post # 72? the references given there are sufficient enough to answer your whys and ifs regarding polytheism. If you had do let us know which translation you refer to.

---

I'm just asking. The Quran is not a feminist text whatsoever. It heavily favors the male point of view and disregards female contributions to society.

[QUOTE=HCabret;1301555]does it portray polytheists in a positive light?

non muslims inclusive of polytheists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

"Womenfolk"? Are males and females presented as being equal in Quran?

---

define equal?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

is there a male god and a female god?

---

refer to post # 75

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

The fact that the Quran implores people to give up their own beliefs and instead adopt Islam is bias. A universal piece of literature would not force people to give up their beliefs.

---

Implore? Force? Really where? Can you bring any proof for your allegations? the point is you are making numerous numbers of preposterous claims to support your misconceptions before making a thorough research. It seems your judgement are based on your line of reasoning alone.

In chapter # 109:

1 - Say, "O disbelievers,
2 - I do not worship what you worship.
3 - Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
4 - Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.

5 - Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
6 - For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."


A question, which Quran translation are you using that is, IF you are using one, can you tell us?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

Islam and the Quran is a long ways away from Goddess Worship and The Mists of Avalon, however.

---

There is no concept in Islamic religion of its followers even converting to worshipping a male or female form, ever. Btw goddess is not the feminine expression of God.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

beacause the topic of this thread is whether or not the Quran is biased or not. This is a literature forum, not a forum for discussing the merits of any given religion.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

There are many female Hindu gods and there are no gods in Jainism or Buddhism. The usage of masculine language in the text if the Quran is a sign a bias towards males.

---

Your comments in this post contradicts the one you made in previously. So what are you implying that ( those who are) having a female god will have a positive impact on the treatment of the female subjects?

Arent you championing certain principles and morals of a said given religion , in the face of another, by resorting to cutting and pasting others beliefs, (which according to your line of reasoning is faulty) to demerit it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

non muslims inclusive of polytheists.

---

so the the Quran endorses, or at least tolerates, polytheism?

Quote:

---

define equal?

---

1.
a person or thing considered to be the same as another in status or quality.
"we all treat each other as equals"
synonyms: equivalent, peer, fellow, coequal, like; More

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

The Quran was
1-written by males

2-about males

3-for the benefit of males.

---

1- This has already been clarified in one of the earliest posts of this thread, refer to post #9

2- only males? there is a verse in Quran which was revealed, as a proof of a woman's innocence ( who was slandered) and thus clarifying and restoring her dignity.

3- as mentioned before, in various chapters ( 23 & 33) there are verses concerning women dealing on there day to day issues and offering solutions to it.

Posts after posts of twisting facts, selectively resorting interpret doctrines out of context (simply on the basis of ones line of reasoning that" as they thought so, so it is"), it is high time to be be respectful of others sensitive beliefs by at least researching about some facts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

the topic of this thread is about whether Quran is biased or not. The Quran is the Muslim holy text. There are many female Hindu gods and there are no gods in Jainism or Buddhism. The usage of masculine language in the text if the Quran is a sign a bias towards males.

---

Really!! are you comparing one religion to another? Presenting ones merit(according to you) to demerit another?

This is not a preschool playground where kids squabble on ones superiority by claiming the superhuman strength of ones father or fighting whose Mom sings a better lullaby.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

Implore? Force? Really where? Can you bring any proof for your allegations? the point is you are making numerous numbers of preposterous claims to support your misconceptions before making a thorough research. It seems your judgement are based on your line of reasoning alone.

---

The Quran requires that people worship only one god and that they follow a certain set of religious rules and laws.

Quote:

---

the point is you are making numerous numbers of preposterous claims to support your misconceptions before making a thorough research. It seems your judgement are based on your line of reasoning alone becuase there is no such verse saying in Quran

---

I am only asking. Does the Quran allow polytheists into the Muslim afterlife or not? Are women allowed to be in positions of authority?

Quote:

---

There is no concept in Islamic religion of its followers even converting to worshipping a male or female form, ever. Btw goddess is not the feminine expression of God.

---

The word "goddess" refers to a female deity. There are many female gods in other literature, but the Quran does not feature a single female god.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

1- This has already been clarified in one of the earliest posts of this thread, refer to post # 9.

Posts after posts of twisting facts, selectively resorting interpret doctrines out of context (simply on the basis of ones line of reasoning that" as they thought so, so it is"), it is high time to be be respectful of others sensitive beliefs by at least researching about some facts.

2- only males? there is a verse in Quran which was revealed, as a proof of a woman's innocence ( who was slandered) and thus clarifying and restoring her dignity.

3- as mentioned before, in various chapters ( 23 & 33) there are verses concerning women dealing on there day to day issues and offering solutions to it.

Posts after posts of twisting facts, selectively resorting interpret doctrines out of context (simply on the basis of ones line of reasoning that" as they thought so, so it is"), it is high time to be be respectful of others sensitive beliefs by at least researching about some facts.





Really!! are you comparing one religion to another? Presenting ones merit(according to you) to demerit another?

This is not a preschool playground where kids squabble on ones superiority by claiming the superhuman strength of ones father or fighting whose Mom sings a better lullaby.

---

This thread, and entire forum, is about literature, not religion. Bias is a not bad thing, as I stated before. The Quran is biased towards Muslims to the detriment of those who reject Islam.

The Quran, in the context of this thread and forum, is an example of medieval Arab literature and not an infallible, uncritiqueable holy text. The Quran is open to interpretation, as is any of other piece of literature. I appreciate that you hold an opinion which differs from my own; I hope that you understand that you position is not shared by either me or the majority of humanity. Most people accept the Quean as great work of world literature, but not as a divine creation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

This thread, and entire forum, is about literature, not religion. Bias is a not bad thing, as I stated before. The Quran is biased towards Muslims to the detriment of those who reject Islam.

The Quran, in the context of this thread and forum, is an example of medieval Arab literature and not an infallible, uncritiqueable holy text. The Quran is open to interpretation, as is any of other piece of literature. I appreciate that you hold an opinion which differs from my own; I hope that you understand that you position is not shared by either me or the majority of humanity.

---

Of course, you or anyone is free to believe in or reject any concept, doctrines ( as stated in in previous posts) and no one is forcing or imploring anyone to give up their faith.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

Most people accept the Quean as great work of world literature, but not as a divine creation.

---

Yes and the other,more than 20 percent of the world population, consider it to be a divine revelation and its not a matter concern what others think so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

The Quran requires that people worship only one god and that they follow a certain set of religious rules and laws.

I am only asking. Does the Quran allow polytheists into the Muslim afterlife or not? Are women allowed to be in positions of authority?


The word "goddess" refers to a female deity. There are many female gods in other literature, but the Quran does not feature a single female god.

---

So what. If your or anyone`s belief is inclined towards faith(s) that considers there Supreme entity to be either a male or female, you are free in your selection. No one is imposing their set of beliefs on anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

The Quran is not a universal document and does not conform to the conceptions of religion which the vast majority of human beings hold. It is biased towards Muslims, while excluding all those who are not.

---

It seems after every lengthy discussion its back to square one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

The Quran requires that people worship only one god and that they follow a certain set of religious rules and laws.

I am only asking. Does the Quran allow polytheists into the Muslim afterlife or not? Are women allowed to be in positions of authority?

---

Asking? Does this post below, seems like making an inquiry?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

The fact that the Quran implores people to give up their own beliefs and instead adopt Islam is bias. A universal piece of literature would not force people to give up their beliefs.

---

Can your quote the source? or which author`s translaton you are using?

Since it is obvious from your comments and posts that you do not refer to/quote from the original text in Arabic, where it doesn't recommends or encourages forcible conversion of non Muslims nor in any in the translated works of Pickthall, Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali, Abdalqadir as-Sufi, Muhammad Asad, Abdul Majid Daryabadi , Arthur Arberry , M.A.S. Abdel-Haleem, Muhammad Taqi Usmani , Dr. Ahmad Zaki Hammad , Wahiduddin Khan, Sarwar and many other who are reputed scholars and professionals in their own right.


As stated before, everyone is free to have their own set of beliefs and theories but just not at the expense of twisting and misinterpreting facts.It is time consuming to research and collect reliable sources, so if you are interested in prolonging this the discussion it would be better if you first brought evidence of the facts that you made in post above and enlighten us in which translated work was that fallacious judgment based on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

It seems after every lengthy discussion its back to square one.



Asking? Does this post below, seems like making an inquiry?



Can your quote the source? or which author`s translaton you are using?

Since it is obvious from your comments and posts that you do not refer to/quote from the original text in Arabic, where it doesn't recommends or encourages forcible conversion of non Muslims nor in any in the translated works of Pickthall, Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali, Abdalqadir as-Sufi, Muhammad Asad, Abdul Majid Daryabadi , Arthur Arberry , M.A.S. Abdel-Haleem, Muhammad Taqi Usmani , Dr. Ahmad Zaki Hammad , Wahiduddin Khan, Sarwar and many other who are reputed scholars and professionals in their own right.


As stated before, everyone is free to have their own set of beliefs and theories but just not at the expense of twisting and misinterpreting facts.It is time consuming to research and collect reliable sources, so if you are interested in prolonging this the discussion it would be better if you first brought evidence of the facts that you made in post above and enlighten us in which translated work was that fallacious judgment based on.

---

What facts am I missing? Does the Quran actually endorse polytheism? Or are polytheists going to the Muslim "hell"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

Of course, you or anyone is free to believe in or reject any concept, doctrines ( as stated in in previous posts) and no one is forcing or imploring anyone to give up their faith.




Yes and the other,more than 20 percent of the world population, consider it to be a divine revelation and its not a matter concern what others think so.

---

The Quran is not uncritiqueable. It is open to interpretation, just like any other piece of literature. There is no single, correct way to interpret what it says. The Quran is not infallible anymore than other religious texts like the Protestant Bible, the God Delusion, or the Rig Veda. The vast majority of humanity rejects the concept that the Quran has a divine origin, and this forum is not a place for proselytizing religion, it is a place to discuss literature.

Ah, for god's sake. You are just attacking the book. Some of your claims are very strange. Anyone who reads the Quran knows woman are not excluded from the narrative of the book. They are often mentioned - which does not imply the Quran have a moderm feminist view (time for the borges's camel joke) - and that it is a universal book. Several themes are universal concern. Claiming it is biased towards an interpretation of the truth therefore not unviersal will just exclude every book, be it Plato, the bible, Shakespeare or Peanuts from "Universal" as all of them are biased towards their idea of truth. Books are not universal because everyone will agree with them, because they use themes or characters with universal appeals. Muhammad is one of those characters (and Jesus, Mary, Moses) and the themes are universal (the Quran have a lot of themes, some are very specific to the region or time, but so are some pages of Hamlet or Don Quixote).

And frankly, most of the book, specially considering that indeed the focus of the book are the followers of Islam, is quite tolerant. There is one or another momment of harshness, specially considering it was written during war times, but most of the momments it just claims God will judge harsher disbelievers. Boo-hoo, that is so terrible. If you do not believe God why would you care about his after-life judgment anyways.

Have you even read the book that you are attacking?

You ask repetitive questions. Many posts, earlier in this thread, has quoted Quranic verses out of context (not you, since you have never given any reference to your claims discussed in this thread up till now) ) to distort it completely. It is still not clear what your motive was by making a comparison between two major religions of the world, which differ in many respects.

Do you even have any credible sources/references to your claims especially in post # 81? for the unth time lets us know which source you refer to?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JCamilo

Ah, for god's sake. You are just attacking the book. Some of your claims are very strange. Anyone who reads the Quran knows woman are not excluded from the narrative of the book. They are often mentioned - which does not imply the Quran have a moderm feminist view (time for the borges's camel joke) - and that it is a universal book. Several themes are universal concern. Claiming it is biased towards an interpretation of the truth therefore not unviersal will just exclude every book, be it Plato, the bible, Shakespeare or Peanuts from "Universal" as all of them are biased towards their idea of truth. Books are not universal because everyone will agree with them, because they use themes or characters with universal appeals. Muhammad is one of those characters (and Jesus, Mary, Moses) and the themes are universal (the Quran have a lot of themes, some are very specific to the region or time, but so are some pages of Hamlet or Don Quixote).

And frankly, most of the book, specially considering that indeed the focus of the book are the followers of Islam, is quite tolerant. There is one or another momment of harshness, specially considering it was written during war times, but most of the momments it just claims God will judge harsher disbelievers. Boo-hoo, that is so terrible. If you do not believe God why would you care about his after-life judgment anyways.

Have you even read the book that you are attacking?

---

Bias is not a bad thing. The Quran was written for Muslims, therefore it is biased towards Muslims. That's not a bad thing, it just is.

Women are portrayed as being subordinate to men. Women are expected to be modest and obedient to their male husband. Homosexuality is portrayed in a negative light in the Quran, as is polytheism. Why can't the Muslim god just accept everyone and just "believers"?

FYI, I accept the existence of many different deities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

You ask repetitive questions. Many posts, earlier in this thread, has quoted Quranic verses out of context (not you, since you have never given any reference to your claims discussed in this thread up till now) ) to distort it completely. It is still not clear what your motive was by making a comparison between two major religions of the world, which differ in many respects.

Do you even have any credible sources/references to your claims especially in post # 81? for the unth time lets us know which source you refer to?

---

There isn't only one way to interpret the Quran. Just because you disagree with someone's literary analysis does not make it wrong. For the purposes of this thread, the Quran is not non-fiction and is open to literary analysis as is an other work which is discussed on this forum. My "motive" is to take the negative position of the question which is posed in the OP.

There is no requirement for me unconditional sing the praises of any work of literature and I intend to critically analyze the Quran from a variety of perspectives, as I would with any other piece of literature.

There is what? four lines about homosexuality in the Quran, it is hardly a main topic (or even a cause of huge scandal) of the book.

Yes, Bias is not a bad thing. Everything is biased, but if you have a bias towards something before knowing about it, then it is bad. That is why I ask again "Have you read the book you are attacking?"

p.s. you should stop to hide behind the "Literary analyses", you have not presented one at all. Knocking on the same keys as "not for woman" "treat homosexuals badly" is attacking the religious content of the book. Nothing even to do with the philosophy behind it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JCamilo

There is what? four lines about homosexuality in the Quran, it is hardly a main topic (or even a cause of huge scandal) of the book.

---

so homosexuality is an off limits topic? which parts of the Quran am I allowed to talk about?

Quote:

---

Yes, Bias is not a bad thing. Everything is biased, but if you have a bias towards something before knowing about it, then it is bad. That is why I ask again "Have you read the book you are attacking?"

---

i have not read the entirety of the Quran. I was not aware that I was "attacking" anything. That being said, the Quran is not above being attacked or critiqued anymore than any other piece of literature. The question of this thread is not whether or not anyone biased agai at Islam, it is whether the author of the book had any biases against any particular individual and/or group.

Quote:

---

p.s. you should stop to hide behind the "Literary analyses", you have not presented one at all. Knocking on the same keys as "not for woman" "treat homosexuals badly" is attacking the religious content of the book. Nothing even to do with the philosophy behind it.

---

the whole point of this thread and forum is to analyze literature. If I can't even discuss literature on a literature forum, what is the point of being here at all?

The religious content of the Quean is critiqueable, just as any other portion of the text is open to discussion. The section in which this thread is found is called "Religious Texts".

What is wrong with treating women, polytheists, and homosexuals as being equal to true Muslim believers?

There is only a single female character with a name in the Quran and her notability comes due to whom her son is. This women is portrayed as being either a virgin and/or completely asexual. It also shows her as having a death wish.

Virtually all other women in the Quran are nameless wives and mothers. None are portrayed as being fully independent, nor are any portrayed in any position of authority.

The God character in the book massacres an entire city of people for their acceptance of homosexuality. There are seven mentions of this (7:80–84, 11:77–83, 21:74, 22:43, 26:165–175, 27:56–59, and 29:27–33).

Polytheism is only "unforgivable" sin found in the Quran. "Shirk" is the worst of all the "wrongs" which a person could do according to the Quran.

The Quran is far from being a positive depiction of women, homosexual people, and especially polytheists. The author of the Quran obviously has a bias against these groups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

The fact that the Quran implores people to give up their own beliefs and instead adopt Islam is bias. A universal piece of literature would not force people to give up their beliefs.

---

And what are those facts? Can you enlighten us about it? After thousands of years being hidden from numerous religious scholars and its detractors, it appeared recently.

NB:

It is obvious from the comments posted by this user, in the absence of any proof till date, that it has (the comments) beautifully managed to portray Islam negatively. In the face of credible references this user has resorted to begin asking repetitive questions and have never backed its claim made in the above post, an attitude hardly conducive for discussion, a style being envious towards islam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

And what are those facts? Can you enlighten us about it? After thousands of years being hidden from numerous religious scholars and its detractors, it appeared recently.

---

4:89, 5:33, 47:20-21. Monotheism is an absolute requirement of all Muslims according to the Quran. Polytheism is constantly portrayed in a negative light in the Quran.

Quote:

---

It is obvious from the comments posted by this user, in the absence of any proof till date, that it has (the comments) beautifully managed to portray Islam negatively. In the face of credible references this user has resorted to begin asking repetitive questions and have never backed its claim made in the above post, an attitude hardly conducive for discussion, a style being envious towards islam.

---

There is no mandate in the rules of this forum that any particular religion be portrayed in only a positive light. Both Islam and the Quran are fully open to criticism, here on this forum and everywhere else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

There isn't only one way to interpret the Quran. Just because you disagree with someone's literary analysis does not make it wrong. For the purposes of this thread, the Quran is not non-fiction and is open to literary analysis as is an other work which is discussed on this forum. My "motive" is to take the negative position of the question which is posed in the OP.

---

Sure, thus many translations, but also interpretation according to ones whims and desires is a big NO and that still does not give you the authority to do so

What if that "literary analysis" has been made randomly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

4:89, 5:33, 47:20-21. Monotheism is an absolute requirement of all Muslims according to the Quran. Polytheism is constantly portrayed in a negative light in the Quran.


There is no mandate in the rules of this forum that any particular religion be portrayed in only a positive light. Both Islam and the Quran are fully open to criticism, here on this forum and everywhere else.

---

Are these verses your proof for of Islam demanding forcible conversion? you have just selectively mentioned verses that supports your motive and that too out of context.

If you want your future posts taken seriously and be responded too, trying posting something credible. Your comments and posts and selectively measured references show hatred towards Islam though it might not be your intention, maybe the real problem lies in your choice of translation. Can we know it?

PS: choice of translation does not mean ones personal interpretation of a the Book.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

Sure, thus many translations, but also interpretation according to ones whims and desires is a big NO and that still does not give you the authority to do so

What if that "literary analysis" has been made randomly?

---

there is no wrong way to interpret any work of literature. There are many different ways to view the motivations of literary characters and the thematic qualities of a work. There is no authority which can legislate interpretation of literature. I am sorry that you disagree with my interpretation, but simply because you disagree with it, does not make it wrong.

Quote:

---

Are these verses your proof for of Islam demanding forcible conversion? you have just selectively mentioned verses that supports your motive and that too out of context.

---

they are quotes showing how Islam is being portrayed as superior to non-Muslim religions. Am I not allowed to cite the Quran as a means of backing up my argument?

Quote:

---

If you want your future posts taken seriously and be responded too, trying posting something credible. Your comments and posts and selectively measured references show hatred towards Islam though it might not be your intention, maybe the real problem lies in your choice of translation. Can we know it?

---

Which parts of the Quran am I allowed to cite? Show me where in the Quran, feminism, homosexuality, and/or polytheism are portrayed positively. Neither the Quran, nor Islam, are above criticism and both are fully open to critique.

Quote:

---

PS: choice of translation does not mean ones personal interpretation of a the Book.

---

Nor did I say otherwise.

It occurred to me that I don't have any "sacred texts". Or maybe my list of sacred texts is fluid being a list of whatever I happen to be biased enough toward to like at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

there is no wrong way to interpret any work of literature. There are many different ways to view the motivations of literary characters and the thematic qualities of a work. There is no authority which can legislate interpretation of literature. I am sorry that you disagree with my interpretation, but simply because you disagree with it, does not make it wrong.

---

It was obvious all along that it was your version of interpretation. There may be different ways to express Quran, only in the selection of words, but the core theme is the same if there is any doubts scholars revert back to the original text in Arabic, where the concept of coercion ( which you so claimed) does not exist.

I am sure those fallacious judgements concerning forcible conversion , made in the heat of the moment and which you cover it as “literal analysis” was not to incite anyone or concerning anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

they are quotes showing how Islam is being portrayed as superior to non-Muslim religions. Am I not allowed to cite the Quran as a means of backing up my argument?

Which parts of the Quran am I allowed to cite? Show me where in the Quran, feminism, homosexuality, and/or polytheism are portrayed positively. Neither the Quran, nor Islam, are above criticism and both are fully open to critique.

---

Islam does not demand that you wage an all out war against polytheism. The verses on fighting polytheist was related to the pagan Arabs, mainly around the time of wa,r and since most newly converters to Islam were subjected to inhuman and barbaric tortures by them.

Do you want to say if someone fights you, you stay put? One should not act in self defense?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soul cu Item

It was obvious all along that it was your version of interpretation.

---

I am glad that my intention to give my own personal interpretation if a book came across as being obviously such.

Quote:

---

There may be different ways to express Quran, only in the selection of words, but the core theme is the same if there is any doubts scholars revert back to the original text in Arabic, where the concept of coercion ( which you so claimed) does not exist.

---

You do not have a monopoly on interpreting the thematic qualities of any particular piece of literature. There are many different outlooks concerning the literary themes of the Quran.

Quote:

---

I am sure those fallacious judgements concerning forcible conversion , made in the heat of the moment and which you cover it as “literal analysis” was not to incite anyone or concerning anything.

---

All I have done is give my opinion concerning a piece of literature on a literature forum. I am sorry that my opinion does not align with your view.

Quote:

---

Islam does not demand that you wage an all out war against polytheism.

---

Nor did I say otherwise. I said that the Quran portrays polytheism as being a bad thing.

Quote:

---

The verses on fighting polytheist was related to the pagan Arabs, mainly around the time of wa,r and since most newly converters to Islam were subjected to inhuman and barbaric tortures by them.

---

So you do admit that the Quran portrays polytheism in a negative light?

Quote:

---

Do you want to say if someone fights you, you stay put? One should not act in self defense?

---

I personally am against violence, but I will not claim that any other particular person agrees with me, as I can only speak for myself. How is this relevant to the literary analysis of the Quran or Medieval Arab literature?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

so homosexuality is an off limits topic? which parts of the Quran am I allowed to talk about?

---

What about topics relevant to the book? Or do you also waste your time talking about the topic of animalcruelty on Don Quixote?

Quote:

---

i have not read the entirety of the Quran. I was not aware that I was "attacking" anything. That being said, the Quran is not above being attacked or critiqued anymore than any other piece of literature. The question of this thread is not whether or not anyone biased agai at Islam, it is whether the author of the book had any biases against any particular individual and/or group.

---

You are fanatically attacking a book you didnt read. That is ridiculous. You are producing anything close to a literary critic. In fact,the only bias here is your own. A bad kind of bias, as you are showing pure prejudice.

Quote:

---

the whole point of this thread and forum is to analyze literature. If I can't even discuss literature on a literature forum, what is the point of being here at all?

---

You are not analysing literature. You are just attacking religious dogmas you consider wrong. All you do here is talk in the religious ground about the book.

Quote:

---

The religious content of the Quean is critiqueable, just as any other portion of the text is open to discussion. The section in which this thread is found is called "Religious Texts".

---

Then stop claiming otherwise, that your attacks on Quran are because any literary text deserve critics.

Quote:

---

What is wrong with treating women, polytheists, and homosexuals as being equal to true Muslim believers?

---

Muhammad improved the treatment towards woman at his time. Only blind fanatism would demand it to be an improvement 15 centuries after it. Your critic seems to be those silly new atheists, devoid of any historical and social context, which is a toll for a good literary critic. You are just googling and quoting other sites, which is funny when you do not notice Lot tale is about disobedience, not mainly homosexuality, as his wife died and she is not homosexual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

I am glad that my intention to give my own personal interpretation if a book came across as being obviously such. You do not have a monopoly on interpreting the thematic qualities of any particular piece of literature. There are many different outlooks concerning the literary themes of the Quran.

---

For Islamic followers/Mohammedans the correct definition lies in the original Arabic scriptures not basically in the interpretations by humans and scholars do revert back to the it but when in doubt, rather than by their personal views( not even if they are a native Arab).
Scholars who translated Quarn had gone through a lengthy academic process, mastering the pronounciations, vocabulary and grammatical connotations. Each translations many vary in the it style it has been presented but the core message theme is the same because they always had the same source at hand, Arabic scripture, even though most of the authors came from different backgrounds, culture, eras and time zones and even some did not share the same faith.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

All I have done is give my opinion concerning a piece of literature on a literature forum. I am sorry that my opinion does not align with your view.

---

So, in a way, you saying your personal views and judgments were based ( and you are free to) on your own personal interpretations, not derived from your referring the original scripture and its background?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCabret

Nor did I say otherwise. I said that the Quran portrays polytheism as being a bad thing.

So you do admit that the Quran portrays polytheism in a negative light?


I personally am against violence, but I will not claim that any other particular person agrees with me, as I can only speak for myself. How is this relevant to the literary analysis of the Quran or Medieval Arab literature?

---

In Quran, when there are more than one individual or a group of people, God sometimes converses in second or third person, referring to the persons concerned by their honorific title, tribe and faith.

The two parties who were at loggerheads ( Mohammed and his followers and Pagans Arabs) shared and were of the same language, lineage creed, race, city ,tribe, culture and they even shared the same belief up until that point.Imagine how odd and confusing it would have been if they were referred as, ”O ye dwellers of Makkah” or as “ O ye Arabs”. The only difference between them was their faith, one practicing monotheism and the other polytheism, not necessarily to impose ones superiority over other.

This style of speech is still used in among modern Arabic literature and individuals

Nazish

All religions are biased. They are all soap ads of a sort claiming their product washes whiter than the rest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Munshie

Nazish

All religions are biased. They are all soap ads of a sort claiming their product washes whiter than the rest.

---

this thread is about whether or not the Quran is biased, not whether any particular religion is biased or not.