Do we really respect each other's beliefs?

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Originally Posted by SirRaustusBear

As long as we're on the subject of the trinity, I have a question. How do you define a seperate being?

When I think of the trinity I think of 3 seperate bodies unified in mind. God's consciousness is within God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. But this raises a problem, because when Christ prays in the garden on the night before his crucifiction, he asks God to spare him if possible. This suggests two seperate consciousnesses, both on a superficial level, because Jesus is speaking to God, but also on a deeper level, because God and Jesus clearly disagree about the upcoming crucifiction. Even though he recognizes the inevitability of his death, Christ asks God to spare him, and God says no. This, to me, suggests that the trinity must contain at least two seperate beings.

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Excuse me for being so presumptuous as to answer, but speaking as a former Catholic, no, there is only one being, not two, not three.

St. Patrick is famously alleged to have explained the Trinity with a three-leaf clover: three leaves, one plant. Someone else likened the Trinity to three candles with their wicks twisted together: three candles, one flame. I remember the illustrations, perhaps from my catechism.

Speaking as me, the Church had a problem. If Christ and the Holy Spirit were regarded as lesser beings it weakened Their influence and utility, but to present them as equals with God created conflict with the first commandment. They solved the problem with doublethink. Three distinct persons, one being. "Triune Godhead be adored."

By the way, I like your spelling 'crucifixion' as 'crucifiction.' Very cute. I'm sure you aren't suggesting that the crucifixion never occurred. Are you then referring to the apocryphal bits of the story, like His falling three times on the way to Calvary, or leaving his faceprint in Veronica's veil?

Wow, it's cool that it worked out to spell fiction, but alas no, I'm just a poor speller.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

It's not polytheism. You confuse the word person, as in three persons, as separate beings. It's the same Being manifesting Himself as God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

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I am aware of how Catholic Church addresses the problem of trinity, and how it explains it, I just speak here from the Jewish perspective. And from that perspective, any 'splitting' of G-d, in any way, is polytheism - even if 'masqued' nicely this way. [The same goes for saints, praying to saints, etc.]

The major principle of Jewish faith is that G-d is one. To 'alterate' that just a little bit (like with trinity) is from Jewish perspective no longer with accordance with that principle.

Of course, Catholic Church and Christians in general have got argumentation for their beliefs why that's not it, and I'm aware of that argumentation, I just wanted to present Jewish perspective here.

No message... Apologies.

I am indifferent to others' beliefs at all. Everyone reserves the right to hold a particular belief and has the right to critique as well.

There is a significant difference between respecting the RIGHT to hold any religious opinion or belief, and respecting the particular opinion or belief ITSELF. It is far easier to do the former than to do the latter.

Here's the thing. If it's very important to you then you won't care about someone's belief - if your belief tells you that they are in trouble. If I saw someone about to get steamrolled by an 18 wheeler, I wouldn't care if they believed there was really an 18 wheeler coming or not, I'd be shoving them out of the way. Who cares if they are offended that I don't respect their right to believe that they are not in trouble, I see them in trouble and want to do something.

If I believe that if a person doesn't give their heart to the Lord and live for Him, they will be consigned to hell, it isn't disrespect I am offering them by telling them about Jesus, but it's love I'm showing them, by pointing out what I believe to be the way to heaven and to avoid the destructive justice they deserve from God.

The person has the right to disagree with me that they are in trouble without God, but my telling them the good news is not disrespect...quite the opposite actually. I won't tell them they are a moron if they don't believe the way that I do. But for me to be silent, and to believe what I believe...that would be disrespectful.

When you ask me to 'Respect others beliefs' what do you mean?
Must I respect their right to believe ? Their Religion ? {The Giant Pommegranat for example}. Just want to get it right, please.

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Originally Posted by jaywalker

When you ask me to 'Respect others beliefs' what do you mean?
Must I respect their right to believe ? Their Religion ? {The Giant Pommegranat for example}. Just want to get it right, please.

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I would expect it would be both. But I'm not a moderator here.

I suspect it's one of those Language things. I'm not able to respect most religions. It's not a choice.

I would say respect the right to have a particular belief and don't use disparaging words or call names. It is certain that one cannot respect all beliefs, you are going to find some hard to swallow. But give them their right to believe, or not believe, and try to just present your case without being rude. The Bible says

1Cor.14
[38] But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

That seems to be a good point. If others will not see the way you see, you got to let them see whatever they do see...

God Bless

Pen

:wave:

Should I respect their right to indoctrinate the children of my country?

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Originally Posted by Pendragon

I would say respect the right to have a particular belief and don't use disparaging words or call names. It is certain that one cannot respect all beliefs, you are going to find some hard to swallow. But give them their right to believe, or not believe, and try to just present your case without being rude. The Bible says

1Cor.14
[38] But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

That seems to be a good point. If others will not see the way you see, you got to let them see whatever they do see...

God Bless

Pen

:wave:

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Very well said Pen.

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Originally Posted by jaywalker

Should I respect their right to indoctrinate the children of my country?

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What are you talking about? You don't list your location, so how can anyone know what you are referring to.

In my opinion, Most of we never bother ourselves to repsect other's beliefs and ideas as we think the only truth is ours. This is especially evident in religious ones. As Pen said "If others will not see the way you see, you got to let them see whatever they do see..."

Virgil, Why so hostile ? I'm located {as you call it} in Belgium, my country is England.

I respect people, not their beliefs. It's like Schopenhauer said of religious beliefs "I should respect a pack oflies?". Beliefs are to be criticized and evaluated appropriately in the realm of philosophical argument, while left alone in everyday life. It's far more important to respect people, as our beliefs may differ quite a bit . . .

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Originally Posted by jaywalker

Virgil, Why so hostile ? I'm located {as you call it} in Belgium, my country is England.

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Who's being hostile? I asked a question based on your ambiguity. You must be reading hostility into my words. ;)

First of all I get a kick at all the people who come right out and say they will not respect other's beliefs. It's like you admit up front you are a snob and self rightous and bigoted. Nice.