e-book or paper book?

I do not know what happened to the kindle thread, but I would like to correct an error I posted to WuWei: I wrote that archived kindle content could not be deleted, and I was only correct insofar as it pertains to deleting from Your Media Library. If you literally want to remove content it can be done from computer> my account> my orders, and then you turn kindle wireless on, sync to Amazon, and voila, the content disappears, but I would use this sparingly if any money was paid for the text file; even with the free files, if those are under copyright Amazon can offer it free one day and then put a price in place the next.

I hope this post corrects my unintended error.

My e-reader is pretty cool. It came with over 100 classics already on it. Plus, you can download others for free. It's easier than trying to find time to go to the library or bookstore. Plus, if you're one of those readers who can't resist flipping to the end, the e-reader kind of discourages that.

Just one question, with these e-reader things can you annotate whilst reading them in some form? I assume that you can't and it strikes me as another drawback of using them. Whenever I read, mostly I will annotate what I am reading, jot down thoughts here and there, but surely this is not possible with the e-readers, or can you do this?

Either way though, I don't think that I'll be getting one in the near future, though I can see them inevitably taking over eventually.

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Originally Posted by Neely

Just one question, with these e-reader things can you annotate whilst reading them in some form? I assume that you can't and it strikes me as another drawback of using them. Whenever I read, mostly I will annotate what I am reading, jot down thoughts here and there, but surely this is not possible with the e-readers, or can you do this?

Either way though, I don't think that I'll be getting one in the near future, though I can see them inevitably taking over eventually.

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Yes, you can, there is the ability to make notes anywhere in the text and you can search on those notes.

This is one area where I think I'll stick to the old school.

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Originally Posted by papayahed

Yes, you can, there is the ability to make notes anywhere in the text and you can search on those notes.

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OK thanks, they've obviously thought of that one then, I thought that there may be a gap in the market for a e-reader student edition, but obviously not. I wonder if you can print off your notes on them too, can you do that do you know, I bet you can then?

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Originally Posted by Neely

OK thanks, they've obviously thought of that one then, I thought that there may be a gap in the market for a e-reader student edition, but obviously not. I wonder if you can print off your notes on them too, can you do that do you know, I bet you can then?

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Yes, but it has to be done through your pc usb port. I am pc stupid but I have my ereader operation down; it breaks my heart that this was not around when I could have closed the deal on my doctorate, because I probably could have with tools such as this.

For me audiobooks all the way. I can read ebooks (I have a very very smart ereader for that purpose and will buy an iPad in very near future) and I regularly buy and pile up paper books but for the time being I can only afford to give time to audiobooks. I listen to my books while walking the dog and during my commute to and from work.

I used to listen to audio books when I had this other job where I could listen to the headphones all I wanted. I would read on the bus to the job, listen all day to various audio books, then read on the bus all the way home, then read at home - it was good; the audio books kept me in that job for about three more years then I would have done. However now with that job gone I don't have any reasons to listen to them, so have hardly used them since.

I've never been able to listen to audio books. In any setting when I can read, I would rather be read (its much faster) and in any setting where I have to primarily give my attention to something else so I can't read, such as in the car, I unconsciously turn it into background noise and tune it out. I still have a fairly good collection of public domain audio books because I have a few friends who swear by them for their long car rides and they've come to count on me for recommendations of something interesting that they haven't read/heard yet.

As far as e-books go, though they've come a long way in the last handful of years, I don't think that they could ever outright replace paper books. They certainly have several uses that can make it more convenient to make than getting ahold of a paper book (actually, my chosen college Senior Project was to build an e-book, so I would hope I have some appreciation for them), but as several of the comments on this thread demonstrate there are some aspects of paper books that people simply prefer.

To bring up a point that hasn't been mentioned here: One thought I heard recently that I never would have thought of on my own is that with ebooks one does not have the opportunity for serendipitous conversation. For example, if I see a co-worker with a kindle reading during every break, unless I regularly ask them the obnoxious "Whatcha readin'," then I won't know when they are reading something I might actually be interested in discussing with them. Likewise, a stranger on the bus might be reading my favorite book of all time, and I'd be happy to strike up a conversation about it for the rest of the bus ride (I've done this before) but I would never know to if they were reading it on an ebook reader (and I certainly don't want every stranger on the bus to ask me what I'm reading or try to peer over my shoulder).

Personally, I like reading in the bath. Not sure that taking my lap-top is a brilliant idea, and at least if I drop a paper book, it'll dry out, although it might not be too pretty. I know how it feels.

Last weekend I bought a Kobo eBook reader from Chapters. I personally, at least right now, enjoy it more than a typical book. The big thing for me is that I ride the bus quite often and never know what mood I'll be in on the way home; and I used to need to carry 5+ books at a time. With an eBook reader I have 100+ with me right now from many different genres.

Worth the 150$ in my opinion.

Paper all the way for me, even if it's just for the fine odour of "fresh" books. And the joy of stalking through the library in search of something to read.
Sadly, I fear that someday they may become the same conossieur object vinyl records have become :(

Pessimism aside, I hate audiobooks since I read much faster than some dude (or woman) can narrate and thus get bored. Anyone else sharing that quirk?

Strangely after reading and looking around, it seems that China has pretty much gone down the route of e-publishing without the rest of the world, where people pay per word for novels, almost exclusively pop fiction. what this implies is, to me, a recreating of the Newspaper years of 19th century serialized novels, where people will pay per subscription, per word pretty much, to grab the latest volume of literature and find out day to day how their favorite stories finish.

At the moment, 90% of best selling romances begin as e-published texts commercially.

If that were to hit the American market, which combined with other English countries would make up a sizable netizen population, the implications for mass-genre producing presses are dreary - Harlequin would become obsolete quickly, if, as we model on the Chinese example, the first 1/3 of a book is handed for free, and the rest readers pay per page - in that world, capitalist fiction connects directly to the readers as before, recreating the traditional serialized world of fiction in the modern day.


To me now, looking at it, it seems only a matter of time - and probably sensible in its conceptualization, especially when those e-readers become 60$ or less (that also is only a matter of time, as sooner or later cheaper equivalents will emerge, as it isn't too difficult to make an e-reader). When that happens, commercial printing will become bound to e-publishing.

What is slowing things down is generally the nature of our markets - TV sitcoms rather than TV dramas are the norm, so adaptation, which feeds much of the Chinese market, is impossible. Likewise, the demographic of people reading is dismal, whereas by sheer number of netizens, a Chinese market has millions of teenage and 20-30 year olds reading in mass numbers.

The transition will happen eventually though, since 10$ for a book that may be bad isn't plausible anymore, and 20$ surely isn't. Novels seem better suited for serialization anyway, given their derivative nature, so I think I must retract my early statements, and say, though my preference is certainly in favor of printed books - they are better to me, - electronic books will dominate in the near future, and take over.

It makes sense to me. I like books - i'm a book nerd - i got an inordinate amount of pleasure selecting the book covers I had on my original editions when I recently signed up to Library Thing.

Yet I know I'll end up with an e-reader. it will make economic sense, as JBI points out, plus all the other advantages too. paper books wil be really special then, and a dying breed.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

It makes sense to me. I like books - i'm a book nerd - i got an inordinate amount of pleasure selecting the book covers I had on my original editions when I recently signed up to Library Thing.

Yet I know I'll end up with an e-reader. it will make economic sense, as JBI points out, plus all the other advantages too. paper books wil be really special then, and a dying breed.

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it's not even that - there are literally millions of people who read on smartphones now, rather than printed form. the actual practicality of such an idea, plus the necessity to innovate will have these e-readers cheaper and cheaper as soon as e-text as a medium advances in the English market.

I think it's just dependent on linguistic barriers now. China has 385+ million netizens, reading in Chinese, so it's easy for them, who have a very strange publishing industry anyway (books are like 1$, and often start as ebooks before being published due to popularity).

Also, our presses don't have a great relationship with the television, which creates another problem, so if we take Japan for example, the Manga artist can expect, if successful, some sort of adaptation (even if they are drawing the worst, most deranged of pornography) and the Chines romance writer can expect some Soap Opera adaptation.

Here we don't have that, which makes commercial writing too tied in with publishing - also publishers (and we are talking the big players) don't seem to want to adapt, because of their ridiculous foothold on profit margins.

If we could get the pay-per-read going on from net reading, and even move that into other genres, not only could reading and writing advance, but also much of the copyright problem of infringement can, to some extent be avoided. As it is, if the readers gain popularity, there is little venue for good commercial writing on the net, so people will just resort to illegal e-texts. IF there was a market, the same way Itunes works for songs, the author would fair a lot better. As it is the author is making a 10% margin on royalties - that same amount can be made while getting books at a much cheaper prince - people would be willing, for instance, to spend 2$ a book, and if 1$ goes to the author, they have made the same profit, only people can read more for their dollar, and the advertisement can be brought up to speed.

That being said, some text will always exist, as the best-selling will be published, or republished traditionally, but electronic text for commercial writing has, to my knowledge now, become so persuasive as a better commercial option, that authors will be inclined to move to.

It will begin with mediocre authors, then pulp authors, until best-selling authors begin publishing in both mediums conveniently, then eventually its influence will spread, to the point where genre writing will be so tied to the internet, that even non-fiction and poetry will feel the need to adapt.

Poetry will be hard to go with, but as it is poetry is not commercial, so maybe people will recreate that communal identity of poetry readers onto the web, where discussion and understanding have begun to move anyway. Look at this forum for instance, if discussion of literature is heading onto the internet, as well as in the street, then ultimately publishing online is sensible.

Paper, please!

Having over a thousand books at home, paper is my first choice, but I recently spent a few minutes playing with a Kobo at Chapters when I was in the other day, and it's a pretty neat toy. My issue is how many of us with personal libraries will end up with multiple formats of the same text? For example, I have it at home in paper, but want an easy way to travel with it; or I loved it on e-text, and now I want a hard copy for my library. Computers, of any sort crash eventually, and how is the system backed up?

The advantage in coming years would be for us university students to be able to download onto a digital reader our required texts, from a campus bookstore website. That would be great! I was very angry this summer when my inter-session class required a specific edition of a two-hundred old text which was over $50 new in paperback! What a rip-off.

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Originally Posted by Iwanuschka

Pessimism aside, I hate audiobooks since I read much faster than some dude (or woman) can narrate and thus get bored. Anyone else sharing that quirk?

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Most people read faster than they talk. Or that narrators talk. I don't regard that as a quirk.

What may be my personal quirk is that I like well-crafted prose that sounds good when read aloud. I deliberately read slowly, and often read aloud, if the prose is good enough. My problem with audiobooks is that the person reading doesn't perform the work the way I would - sometimes that's very annoying!

I've read a lot of e-books and can safely say that I'm never gonna switch. It's easier on the eyes and you can customize the font to what suits you best...I personally think paper books, at some point, will cease to be produced in a massive scale. If you take into account environmental factors, E-books provides a reasonable option.

Just read in a mag yesterday about publishing e-books. It's a growing market. Some authors are turning to e-publishing without the constraints of paper poublishing. It'll be big.

I personally read ebooks now that i have an ipad. I find they are great as far as being practical and convenient but the only drawback is you cant really share the book with your friends.

Although I much prefer the hard copies for reasons already stated, lately I had to succumb to e-books due to financial situations. I suppose this is where the library would be best to turn to, but the availability and selection is not always there. Those Kindle/nook devices seem to have their conveniences, especially for space making, but they are not the same. Electronic devices cannot be fully reliable.

I wonder how you burn an e-book.

Paper books will last longer and I can flip back and forth between the pages faster? Not too sure since I haven't actually read an e-book before. But for now I'll say that I find paper books more.. pleasant.

I'll definitely try those e-book readers one day when they take over the world or something.

Is the Book Dead?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00v4s8v

Paper for me, bookshops draw me in like a giant magnet.

Well, they both have their place in my life.

I like the flexibility of the actual physical book. I can take it anywhere, hide in a corner with it, take it on a Ferris wheel, lay upon a raft with it. There are no worries of dead batteries or malfunction. It's always going to be there except in the cases of extreme elemental disaster of which any medium must hold it's breath against.

The e-book is a matter of convenience. As it stands, we have access to tons of information that exceeds even the largest library. To trade books or buy books online and receive instant access is a concept we are still trying to corral and fully take under our wing. The Kindle is a mere prototype of the ideal that has yet to come. The ideal would either be some sort of realistic digital paper book that you could download words onto or, to some, the ability to download text straight into the brain! The e-book isn't to be feared. For the information is still there, waiting to be read. But it hasn't reached its full potential yet, so physical books still have their place and function.

one problem with e-readers is they are technology. Ie, they will have to be upgraded or replaced every 4 or 5 years (see the different generations of the Kindle). It is like a computer, laptop, or even cell phone, the technology required to read your books will come with a neverending upgrade price tag.

That doesn't make e-readers vastly inferior - it is just one drawback about them

If I buy a paperback, I don't need to upgrade a reading device for it for $100+ every few years

I've been reading about e-publishing recently, and it's certainly an easy and possibly profitable way of getting published and sold.

It's opening up!

For the longest time, I was in the crowd that had to have the feel of a book in my hand. But I recently made the plunge and wish I did so years ago. One of the major benefits is free books. Tons and tons of free books/really cheap. Amzon had files of authors entire libraries for free or under $5.00. I downloaded a file of the entire works of HG Wells off Amazon for something like $2.00. I also grabbed the libraries of H.P Lovecraft, Robert Louis Stevenson, Oscar Wilde, etc. all for about $2.00 a pop. Tons of books by Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Hugo, Joyce, etc. all for free. For years I have been searching for affordable sets of "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" and the "Arabian Night." Got both of them, the ENTIRE sets for free. I know they were already available to read on the web, but that's not an enjoyable way to read, nor is it portable. A Kindle (or whatever e-reader) is enjoyable to read on and is portable. It's great.

I can swing both ways. For longer books, I prefer paper. I like seeing the progress being made. I'm spending the fall/winter finally reading the classics of Russian literature, all on paperback. Shorter books and more current books, I can do on my iPad using the Kindle or iBook apps.

I totally prefer paper books.
I don't like reading on the computer or on e-readers. I can not manage to focus to read. And it will eventually screw up your eyes. An article I read a few weeks ago said that reading speed actually goes down with the use of e-readers.

I am sure that there will come a time when e-books will be for me.

For the meantime one of my greatest pleasures in life is finding paper books at all of the different outlets. Covers get me in, I do not buy new books and I do not keep keep many, only the special ones, I pass the others on to a little retirement village library. It may only be two a week, that is enough to keep me happy:seeya::seeya:

Wow, old thread. :)

I have to say though that I feel a little vindicated by recent trends in eBook reading, though even I'm a little surprised by how quickly things are progressing. Personally I do nearly all my reading on my iphone these days, its gotten to the point where I have high quality hardbacks sitting untouched in my bookcase and I'm reading a ebook version of the same on my phone.

I think its fair to say that eReaders and ebooks have irrevocably progressed past the point of being gimmicky.

hm.... dunno if the real book is dying
but to me it's paper!
easier to handle, not so easy to break... easier to make notes in and underline stuff
then there is the paper the ink... the touch the smell, the cover of course, I buy many books because of their cover..
and then, the way they are stored in my room ... it's each book a world, they need to be seperated like this
but perhaps I'm just oldfashioned

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Originally Posted by hazelk

Paper for me, bookshops draw me in like a giant magnet.

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true true.. a bookshop .... as if there where worlds lined up for me to chose which one I want to escape to... it's just the real stuff

The paper book is just so special for me, the cover is so important of course.

If I am lucky enough to find a special book I will hold it to my chest, not caring if I am observed.

I have even been known to give a special book a kiss.

Book searching is one of my greatest pleasures in life.

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Originally Posted by David Lurie

Is the Book Dead?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00v4s8v

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Thank you for that, David. I really enjoyed that talk. First of all, because I loved the UK-ish accents. But also because I thought it was an engaging conversation.

I personally love the e-book. I think it's the wave of the future and it's so convenient. I was actually able to buy Journey to the West--a one-thousand page novel--for only one dollar. I could never get such a deal from a real book! The main argument for the real book is the aesthetic sense: it smells good, it feels good, etc. That is true, and for that reason I do feel the book will always stay with us. But quite frankly, arguing the importance of a book's smell seems like a trite argument when compared to the accessibility of e-books. Don't get me wrong, I love books, but e-books are the future. And more than that, e-books provide a different sort of literature. They provide the potential for something revolutionary. In particular I'm excited about the episodic format of it all. In many ways, these novels will almost be given out in a television-esque format and that's just going to change literature so much. I'm excited to see what the future holds.

I'll give a link of my own, for people who want to take a gander at books being written online: http://webfictionguide.com/ That's a great little website which compiles a good number of the e-books being written online

Oh dear, I'm thinking of getting one of those new Kindle things. Anybody got one?

I mean the ability to hold my library in my hand and get almost any book I want instantly is a huge pull. On top of this are the free classic books which are available. I also have to think about saving space, as I do not have the room for any more books. Anybody recommend one of these?

Yep I have a kindle and I love it, its nothing like reading of a screen, electronic ink is immensely easy on the eyes, also having all your books in one small device is a huge boon, not to mention the fact that you buy books for much cheaper. However as a negative, many of the kindle editions you find of poetry are badly formatted with line-breaks and such, but a bit of searching and a well formatted edition is usually found, so yea with poetry before buying always download a sample to check what its like.

I definitely recommend it !