are women losing their sense of feminity?

Well, there are women like that but I think most of us marry good guys. There aren't a lot left, but at least I got one. Some women seem to always pick the worse kind of guy and you may be right about the mothering instinct. But I think they are not the majority of women.

R e m i n d e r

Please do not resort to inflammatory comments.

Such posts will be deleted with or without any further warning.

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Originally Posted by Granny5

Well, there are women like that but I think most of us marry good guys. There aren't a lot left, but at least I got one. Some women seem to always pick the worse kind of guy and you may be right about the mothering instinct. But I think they are not the majority of women.

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Yeah, after a few bad experiences I think we all come to our senses.

I say all of us drinking, swearing women should get together and kick some pasty intellectual misogynist ***. and we'll do it in high-heels and lipstick. littlewing, you in? :) ;)

thanks, Virgil, that is so sweet. :blush:

and some of my favorite men go about picking flowers, and reek of sweet sentiment. so...life is complex.

I think if I had a nanny, a housekeeper, a landscaper, a cook, I'd be more inclined to be sweetly feminine.

hi riesa...i agree, life is for the living....oh, great words of wisdom...:D..i think you forgot the window washer at the end....:lol:

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Originally Posted by Riesa

I say all of us drinking, swearing women should get together and kick some pasty intellectual misogynist ***. and we'll do it in high-heels and lipstick. littlewing, you in? :) ;)

thanks, Virgil, that is so sweet. :blush:

and some of my favorite men go about picking flowers, and reek of sweet sentiment. so...life is complex.

I think if I had a nanny, a housekeeper, a landscaper, a cook, I'd be more inclined to be sweetly feminine.

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I'm up for it if its stillettos!:p I wonder what my worrior women ansestors would do in a situation like this........?

Just an interesting (well to me anyway) point about stillettos. getting trampled by women in stillettos can be more dangerous than an elephant due to weight distribution.

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Originally Posted by kilted exile

Just an interesting (well to me anyway) point about stillettos. getting trampled by women in stillettos can be more dangerous than an elephant due to weight distribution.

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:lol: That had me chuckling out loud. I wonder how many here understand that. Actually i've got a weight distribution problem on a design right now at work. :D

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Originally Posted by Riesa

I say all of us drinking, swearing women should get together and kick some pasty intellectual misogynist ***. and we'll do it in high-heels and lipstick. littlewing, you in? :) ;)

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Hey! That sounds like a great idea! Maybe we can get a couple fierce tattoos and piercings while we're at it, something pretty and feminine like fairies or and angel wings. :p

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Originally Posted by Idril

Hey! That sounds like a great idea! Maybe we can get a couple fierce tattoos and piercings while we're at it, something pretty and feminine like fairies or and angel wings. :p

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And adopt a name like The Femme Fatale Faeries!

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Originally Posted by Niamh

And adopt a name like The Femme Fatale Faeries!

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

And go around spreading our version of femininity, a femininity that is defined by us, not some silly poet. ;) :p

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Originally Posted by Idril

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And go around spreading our version of femininity, a femininity that is defined by us, not some silly poet. ;) :p

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woohoo! FFF, good one Niamh. the triple F-words.



that is oddly reminiscent of my signature, Idril. Someone once said to me that a certain sisterhood scared the crap out of him. :p as little wings become fairy wings, the moon blots out the sun, and the men all feel like George Costanza after swimming in a cold pool. ;)

and, flip flops can be feminine, if not quite as dangerous as stilettos.

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Originally Posted by Riesa

that is oddly reminiscent of my signature, Idril. Someone once said to me that a certain sisterhood scared the crap out of him. :p as little wings become fairy wings, the moon blots out the sun, and the men all feel like George Costanza after swimming in a cold pool. ;)

and, flip flops can be feminine, if not quite as dangerous as stilettos.

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Another good question is why are men so often threatened by female friendships? Are they scared their influence with their significant others will be undermined? Are they scared they will be discussed with all their faults and foibles? Are they scared that we'll give each other good advice and that good advice might be, "turn him loose"? :lol: Now, before anyone complains, I fully realize not all men are like that but I think there are plenty who, deep down, fear their mate's female friends on some level.

And of course flip-flops can be feminine, especially if you have a nice pedicure and some cute little toe-rings. :D

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Originally Posted by Riesa

I say all of us drinking, swearing women should get together and kick some pasty intellectual misogynist ***. and we'll do it in high-heels and lipstick. littlewing, you in? :) ;)

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Originally Posted by Niamh

I'm up for it if its stillettos!:p I wonder what my worrior women ansestors would do in a situation like this........?

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Originally Posted by Idril

Hey! That sounds like a great idea! Maybe we can get a couple fierce tattoos and piercings while we're at it, something pretty and feminine like fairies or and angel wings. :p

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Originally Posted by Niamh

And adopt a name like The Femme Fatale Faeries!

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Originally Posted by Idril

And go around spreading our version of femininity, a femininity that is defined by us, not some silly poet. ;) :p

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and go blougeon people with ceramic rolling pins??

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Originally Posted by Virgil

:lol: That had me chuckling out loud. I wonder how many here understand that. Actually i've got a weight distribution problem on a design right now at work. :D

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Not sure but I think most people here would understand it, the theory itself is pretty simple - as always its the practicalities that cause issues;)

i leave for a day the whole s###house here goes up in flames by a band of femininites! :D

and where are the guys (i.e. virgil) to hold up the fort when i need them?? :crash:

Well, the girls are busy holding up the fort, while Virgil is taking a little siesta.

:p

I just wanted to mention something. I often hold the door for other people, women with strollers, old ladies, or men with crutches, whatever. Now, does this make me masculine? or does it just show kindness and respect? Half of the time men will shove the old lady out of the way to get through the door I'm holding open for her.

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Originally Posted by Riesa

Well, the girls are busy holding up the fort, while Virgil is taking a little siesta.

:p

I just wanted to mention something. I often hold the door for other people, women with strollers, old ladies, or men with crutches, whatever. Now, does this make me masculine? or does it just show kindness and respect? Half of the time men will shove the old lady out of the way to get through the door I'm holding open for her.

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as far as women with strollers you must refer to my little Vacant poem. :D

wait, you just said that you hold the door for old ladies and men with crutches. perhaps. but admit to everyone that you tell them to hurry the hell up! :D

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Originally Posted by Virgil

As to Jon's subject, I have noticed over the years that girls have picked up many of the guy's bad habits. I even catch my wife swearing now when she never did that in the past. That doesn't excuse guys, but girls shouldn't emulate the bad habits

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She's not emulating the bad habits, she's driven to it. Only you know the reasons why. :p

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Originally Posted by Idril

Another good question is why are men so often threatened by female friendships? Are they scared their influence with their significant others will be undermined? Are they scared they will be discussed with all their faults and foibles? Are they scared that we'll give each other good advice and that good advice might be, "turn him loose"? :lol: Now, before anyone complains, I fully realize not all men are like that but I think there are plenty who, deep down, fear their mate's female friends on some level.

And of course flip-flops can be feminine, especially if you have a nice pedicure and some cute little toe-rings. :D

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but have you ever thought of the possibility that what you interpret to be a man's "fear" is actually a man's "frustration" that his girfriend or wife is not spending more time out of the house with her female friends so that he can relax at home in peace and quiet? :D ;)

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Originally Posted by jon1jt

as far as women with strollers you must refer to my little Vacant poem. :D

wait, you just said that you hold the door for old ladies and men with crutches. perhaps. but admit to everyone that you tell them to hurry the hell up! :D

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not here, in Texas, one says:
"Git!"
or
"come on, granma, i got cows and roosters to feed." or, "whatcha think there's rattlesnakes on t'other side of this here door?" or "what's the hold up? Jesse James robbin' your bank?"

certainly never, "hurry the hell up". :p

I don't know; just because most men or women are a certain way doesn't mean that they are inherently this way. I was talking about this with my mother, and she told me she'd never felt biologically driven until she felt the need to comfort and feed us (my brother and me) as infants. Still, we both feel the most important thing is how people choose to think and behave, rather than what one's gender is. I mean men and women have different hormones, but each are capable of kindness or meanness or anything.

So I think our psychology has a higher determination on who and what we are, above gender, and ideas about masculinity or femininity have less to do with reality, even though men are more naturally aggressive, etc., as to do with our society's stipulations (for instance is it masculine to sit practicing zen for hours? honestly, how many would say no)

Erm, okay I realize at some point this turned into a post for the other thread, but I guess about this topic I just want to say no, I haven't noticed such a trend. For one, the number of people I have met and known and talked with is so incredibly small that I would not make a judgment about women in general from it, and secondly because I haven't noticed a trend like this at all in the women and girls I know and talk with. And that has nothing to do with my being a feminist.

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Originally Posted by Riesa

not here, in Texas, one says:
"Git!"
or
"come on, granma, i got cows and roosters to feed." or, "whatcha think there's rattlesnakes on t'other side of this here door?" or "what's the hold up? Jesse James robbin' your bank?"

certainly never, "hurry the hell up". :p

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good point, i almost forgot that the women who yell at old ladies to "hurry the hell up" all live in NY and NJ. :D

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Originally Posted by NikolaiI

about this topic I just want to say no, I haven't noticed such a trend. For one, the number of people I have met and known and talked with is so incredibly small that I would not make a judgment about women in general from it, and secondly because I haven't noticed a trend like this at all in the women and girls I know and talk with.

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Ultimately I have to agree with you. The women I come into contact with here, in Texas, and no, it's not so out of tune with the rest of America as one might think, are for the most part very "feminine". If they drink, they drink white or red wine, or a spritzer, and very few at one time. or maybe if they are a little daring, an Appletini. They volunteer at school, go to church, bake cakes. Are "good" wives and "good" mothers. say things like, "good heavens", or "for pete's sake" (or is that idril?)

pity for me, I'd prefer to be surrounded by more of the type described by Jon we've been discussing here. :p

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Originally Posted by NikolaiI

about this topic I just want to say no, I haven't noticed such a trend. For one, the number of people I have met and known and talked with is so incredibly small that I would not make a judgment about women in general from it, and secondly because I haven't noticed a trend like this at all in the women and girls I know and talk with. And that has nothing to do with my being a feminist.

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social science found that it can make generalizations about entire populations within a very small margin of error based on the attitudes and opinions of a small population sample. it's no surprise that opinion polls drive campaign politics. we like to think we're complex. hardly true.

human beings are very predictable, more predictable now than we were fifty years ago, and fifty years before that. someday we'll stop asking "why?" and become complex creatures, like cats and dogs. :)

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Originally Posted by Riesa

Ultimately I have to agree with you. The women I come into contact with here, in Texas, and no, it's not so out of tune with the rest of America as one might think, are for the most part very "feminine". If they drink, they drink white or red wine, or a spritzer, and very few at one time. or maybe if they are a little daring, an Appletini. They volunteer at school, go to church, bake cakes. Are "good" wives and "good" mothers. say things like, "good heavens", or "for pete's sake" (or is that idril?)

pity for me, I'd prefer to be surrounded by more of the type described by Jon we've been discussing here. :p

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no problem, just move to Brooklyn. :D

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Originally Posted by Idril

Another good question is why are men so often threatened by female friendships? Are they scared their influence with their significant others will be undermined? Are they scared they will be discussed with all their faults and foibles? Are they scared that we'll give each other good advice and that good advice might be, "turn him loose"? :lol: Now, before anyone complains, I fully realize not all men are like that but I think there are plenty who, deep down, fear their mate's female friends on some level.

And of course flip-flops can be feminine, especially if you have a nice pedicure and some cute little toe-rings. :D

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this is such a good point, Idril. I wonder which would be the worse for sig. others to listen to? a 'hen' party or a poker game? I've been around men talking when they think I'm not paying attention, and while entertaining, in an often sick and disturbed way, :p relationship advice is hardly a hot topic.

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Originally Posted by jon1jt

no problem, just move to Brooklyn. :D

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egads!

u guys are cracking me up...have really enjoyed this post...i still say long live the FFF...

what's wrong with drinking and cursing?
if there's anything wrong with it, why do lots of men do it all the time? seeing as they are so incredibly strooooooong and rational, they should be able to stop it anytime?

a few random observations, not directed at anyone in particular:
if psychology was genetics it wouldn't be called psychology

re: "women are this, men are that"... the appropriate phrasing would be something like "there is evidence that..." ".... seems to indicate that...".
on that note: The world is flat, yours truly, SleepyWitch

FFF girls, can I join you? I'd prefer Doc Marten's to high heels, though

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

what's wrong with drinking and cursing?
if there's anything wrong with it, why do lots of men do it all the time? seeing as they are so incredibly strooooooong and rational, they should be able to stop it anytime?

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Well, a woman who drinks is not a problem; cursing comes across as a rather coarse behavior - it's not really "OK" for men, but its coarseness seems more appropriate to men and more inappropriate to women (whose refinement - both self-proclaimed and culturally-attributed - makes such behavior seem contradictory to the "softness" and "tenderness" that are associated with women). Women who act like "one of the guys" become just that - and I'm not necessarily sure that every man wants to date "one of the guys."

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

re: "women are this, men are that"... the appropriate phrasing would be something like "there is evidence that..." ".... seems to indicate that...".

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A reasonable request, though I would assume that it's understood by most people that any statement of "are" or "is" allows for the exception to the rule.

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Originally Posted by Redzeppelin

Well, a woman who drinks is not a problem; cursing comes across as a rather coarse behavior - it's not really "OK" for men, but its coarseness seems more appropriate to men and more inappropriate to women (whose refinement - both self-proclaimed and culturally-attributed - makes such behavior seem contradictory to the "softness" and "tenderness" that are associated with women). Women who act like "one of the guys" become just that - and I'm not necessarily sure that every man wants to date "one of the guys."

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tough luck on him then. if those women can live with some guys not wanting to date them, no harms done to anyone. so what's wrong with women behaving like "one of the guys", providet that women weren't created for the sole purpose of dating men?

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Originally Posted by Redzeppelin

A reasonable request, though I would assume that it's understood by most people that any statement of "are" or "is" allows for the exception to the rule.

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eh, that's not exactly what I meant

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

re: "women are this, men are that"... the appropriate phrasing would be something like "there is evidence that..." ".... seems to indicate that...".
on that note: The world is flat, yours truly, SleepyWitch

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:lol: :thumbs_up :p

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FFF girls, can I join you? I'd prefer Doc Marten's to high heels, though

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Of course! Type of footwear doesnt matter, as long as they hurt when they impact with limbs!:p

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Originally Posted by jon1jt

but have you ever thought of the possibility that what you interpret to be a man's "fear" is actually a man's "frustration" that his girfriend or wife is not spending more time out of the house with her female friends so that he can relax at home in peace and quiet? :D ;)

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Yeah...um...I don't think so. :p Otherwise we would hear, "Why don't you call up *insert female's friend's name here* and go out for coffee?" instead of, "Are you going out with her again?". :lol: And I've often noticed the attitude...on occasion...that when men get together with their buddies, they're bonding whereas when women get together, we're 'conspiring'. :rolleyes:

Female friendships can be incredibly empowering and that empowerment can bring about confidence and that confidence, in a woman's own mind, body, sexuality and just general worth, can be very feminine. Would you rather have a mouse or a tiger? ;)

Beyonce Knowles, isn't she a lovely young lady? you can even see some stubbles where she forgot to shave!

I got this pic from a thread in another forum (a nerdy Star Trek forum), where people where asked to nominate their sexiest celebrity. the guys all posted pics
like this one. so what does that tell us about the male psyche?
image of beyonce

anyways, this is another example of women/people in general losing their sense of decency, as oppposed to femininity/masculinity. what's wrong about this pic for me isn't that Beyonce behaves un-femininely, but that I'm forced to look at things I never asked to see. if a man posed that way, it would be called flashing...

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Originally Posted by Redzeppelin

Well, a woman who drinks is not a problem; cursing comes across as a rather coarse behavior - it's not really "OK" for men, but its coarseness seems more appropriate to men and more inappropriate to women (whose refinement - both self-proclaimed and culturally-attributed - makes such behavior seem contradictory to the "softness" and "tenderness" that are associated with women).

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..the softness and tenderness that are associated with women by whom?

Well, I'm all for sexy women, I encourage that, but sexy does not mean distasteful.

Sleepy, since this is an all ages forum, I've changed the img you had of beyonce into a link, so people can choose to look at it, and not be confronted with it directly.

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Originally Posted by AimusSage

Well, I'm all for sexy women, I encourage that, but sexy does not mean distasteful.

Sleepy, since this is an all ages forum, I've changed the img you had of beyonce into a link, so people can choose to look at it, and not be confronted with it directly.

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thanks Aimus:p i couldn't remember how to do it (just got up an hour ago :))

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

thanks Aimus:p i couldn't remember how to do it (just got up an hour ago :))

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Hey, I did too! :lol: But I am a morning person ;)

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

..the softness and tenderness that are associated with women by whom?

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by natural laws, evolution. why must women insist on making men out to be the villains?? there was never a vast conspiracy made up of men for the single purpose of controlling women.

rather, it was a band of rabble-rousing women who disrupted the course of social history. i'm not suggesting that all women were particularly "happy" about their place in the world; surely men prevented what they thought to be "normal"--that being a woman who stayed home to care for her children while the husband worked and provided. what was so wrong with that arrangement??

feminists point to history as if all were tragic, as if all men were systematically involved in the suppression of women "rights." gimme a break. it was merely a different value under which women cultivatedfeminine habits and attitudes that they have long since abandoned.

and for what? to behave like beyonce knowles? britney spears? paris hilton? because they can?? ok, so do.

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Originally Posted by jon1jt

what was so wrong with that arrangement??

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freedom to choose?

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Originally Posted by Madhuri

freedom to choose?

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excellent, Madhuri!