Your avatar is again giving me shudders. Other than the Afghani girl, she is also reminding me of a girl who had been a victim of this earthquake which hit Pakistan recently....Quote:
Originally Posted by ozbey
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Your avatar is again giving me shudders. Other than the Afghani girl, she is also reminding me of a girl who had been a victim of this earthquake which hit Pakistan recently....Quote:
Originally Posted by ozbey
I am very sorry for all the victims of earthquake which hit Pakistan and other countries..I pray to Allah for giving them peace...
Well, yes, natural disasters can hardly be helped... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ozbey
Natively I can speak Croatian and/or Serbian (depending on whether you view them as separated languages, or as variants of the same language - however, differences exist and I do feel the difference when I switch between the two, regardless of them being mutually intelligible; also for cultural reasons I consider them to be separated languages) and Russian. I also grew up with Slovenian as my third/fourth native language, but I have not uttered a word of it since I was 9-10 years old, so I usually exclude it off my list. I understand it, but I am not an active speaker. Therefore, 3 languages here.
That of course implies that I can understand to great extent other Slavic languages, and read in them (in fact I quite often read in some of them), but I would not dare to claim that I speak them - the only Slavic languages I am fluent in are my native ones.
Other than them, Italian is my best foreign language, followed by English, both of which I would dare to say I speak fluently, though of course to varying degrees (which is also reinforced by the fact that I spent quite some time in Italy, whilst I have never been to any anglophone country). So that would be another 2, which would with the previous 3 add to 5 languages.
Due to the wonders of solid old-fashioned classical education, I was taught Latin and Ancient Greek for many years, and was also forced to study Old Church Slavonic for two years out of "religious" reasons, but really, how well can one ever speak dead languages?
They are beautiful, but they are largely uncongenial - they are the languages of some other times, some other places, and present more a burden to one's soul, to carry something so bygone inside, than another language. I am supposedly well-versed in them, if my professors are to be believed, and I can read them - OCS and Latin at least - with considerable "reading fluency" (that is, I do not need to translate them before I can read them, I can read them more-less as living languages), but those are not the languages I can use actively (well I can, in terms of writing quite laughable juvenile hexameters :D). So, not counting of those.
There are three other living languages which I studied throughout the years, but would not dare to claim any greater knowledge - let alone fluency! - of... yet, at least.
So, five languages for me so far.
Anastasija, I'm very impressed. For a seventeen year old that is incredible.
Well i keep finding statements like this one in this forum and i am really annoyed. Modern greek is in fact the continuation of ancient greek. The languages are in fact one. All modern greek words are derived from ancient greek words (apart from some words we have borrowed from our neighbours the Italians and the Turks and a few English words). In most cases, in modern greek, only the ending of the word is changed. There are a lot of different things in grammar, but that doesn't mean that the language isn't the same!!! It only means that greek is a very old language and it has changed through the centuries that have passed. Please don't presume that our language is dead!Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasija
I am not responding to you only and when i said that i was annoyed i didn't mean by you :-)
Oh so many pages that I can't finish reading within such a short time.
I wonder if anyone here can speak Chinese? As Chinese is my first language, of course I can speak it very very fluently! I learned English in school and now I am learning it by myself, whether can speak it fluently? maybe! but when I am speaking, there must be mach solecism.(Hah...) So, writing in English is easier for me. In addition, I can speak a little Japanese (only very a little!).
I respectfully disagree, though had my Greek professor seen this thread she would have seconded every word of what you said, and slapped me for daring to claim her beloved Greek 'dead' ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by manolia
But see, it is somewhat different when you say it, as a native speaker (I assume?), or she, who lived in Greece for years and is occupied by classical philology in life. You are amongst the people who actually speak Greek, possess larger knowledge on the subject, and who are able to view it in a context lot broader than I can.
I have two years of Modern Greek behind me, and over double as much of the Ancient one. With those little snippets of Modern Greek I learnt (but let us not fool ourselves that I actually speak it, as you can see I did not even bring it up :D ), I realised how incredibly connected they are ("duh", I hear you saying :D), of course, but they were still two quite different variants of a language for me, and I would never be able to understand Greek spoken today relying solely on the classical one (in fact, I would probably understand written kathareuousa much better than anything else), and certain things which are obvious to you might not be so obvious to me.
The "bygone" issues I brought up I had in mind more about vocabulary than anything else - as I said, the languages of some other times. How are you going to say "subway" in Ancient Greek or Latin? Or a thousand of other words related to the present-day life? Who speaks Ancient Greek or Latin as their first language today? Those are the things I had in mind rather than just "burying" the languages - they are simply historical episodes of current languages of some other times. In that precise form they are no longer used, thus the 'dead', whilst of course that throughout the centuries they developed and created some new forms of language used today.
Trust me that in Italy we hear as much about "our beloved and dear Latin" as you probably do in Greece about Ancient Greek, but even if Latin was the root of Italian, that form of the language is simply not used any longer (other than Vatican, and certain circles of language enthusiasts who would like to revive Latin), and if it is incomprehensible for an Italian speaker, and only vaguely resembles the current form, it is not the same language.
Of course that when we see Latin we recognise things, we recognise roots of our words, but we are simply not able to read much Latin without previous instruction in it.
If you can tell me than an average Greek (i.e. not somebody who studied Greek or philology at university) can read and fully understand any text ever written in various historical forms of Greek, without previous instruction in Ancient Greek, and that forming the kind of sentences they are formed in Attic Greek is a 'minor change' for them and that they can intuitively do it, and relying solely on the knowledge of current standard Modern Greek they understand everything, then I am going to take back all I said, and promise you never in my life again claim Ancient Greek to be a dead language, and I will agree that Ancient and Modern Greek are pretty much the same language, and that I am stupid for having to study them both separately as knowing one should obviously suffice for all.
Until then, I will consider that form of the language bygone, separate from the current form of Greek except in terms of being its source.
Of course I still admit it is the same language only in its various historical phases, but then again, one could make such a claim for Latin/Italian as well. The fact that all of Greek is the same language does not necessarily mean it is automatically understandable, and history can do quite a thing here. Hell, I do not understand current Italian dialects, and somebody could still claim that to be "the same language"...
I did not mean to bury your language :-) It is just that for me they really are different, at least in this stage of learning. I probably will grow to see your point with the time, but you must always keep in mind that as a native speaker you have broader and more complete view of it than I do.
She would have done well :lol: Just kidding ;) .Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasija
I know. That's why i should advise you not to jump into conclussions untill you learn the language well. It would take you years though. It's difficult (as many other languages ;) ). I bet yours is difficult too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasija
Two years is a very short period for any language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasija
Well the difficulty a foreigner faces while learning our language and how our language sounds to his/hers ears doesn't justify your opinion about "two different variants" as you term them or prove anything about the language itself. It just shows a foreigner's efforts to learn a language. Even if you'd been studying greek for ten, nay twenty years and went to Crete or Cyprus, or Trikala or Agrinion etc etc you wouldn't be able to understand a word spoken to you. The language is still the same but the accents and pronunciation is very different. Moreover in Crete they have retained the original form of many words (i mean the ancient greek form, ending and all).Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasija
Exactly. It's the vocabulary that is the same!!! The grammar has changed a lot. We don't have Dativ (Δοτική) for example in modern greek. It has been replace with Σε+την or Σε +τον etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasija
Well, let me fill you in. All the new words have been constructed using ancient greek roots. For example:Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasija
Subway = Υπόγειος Σιδηρόδρομος
(Υπό + γη = υπόγειος
Σιδηρόδρομος = Σίδηρος + οδός)
second example: The sport basketball =καλαθοσφαίρηση = καλάθι +σφαίρα
Well, even english isn't used in the precise form as in bygone ages. No one says "Thou shalt" or "thine" anymore etc etc. Every language has a past. And every European language is old enough to have a past. The older the language the more the changes (i say European because i speak only european languages currently)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasija
Well let me inform you, almost anyone i know can fully understand an ancient text. I can't speak for the entire country, only the people i know. But we are quite average greeks :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasija
I don't really care whether you change your opinion or not. That's your problem ;) But i'd advise you (if my advice is accepted) to view it as a whole and not two separate things. As a language that has evolved through the ages and is spoken by 15.000.000 (approx) of people. And if you pay attention in your ancient greek classes you'll learn modern greek perfect. Everything is connected. Everything has a continuity.
EDIT
Since you mentioned Καθαρεύουσα (Cathareuousa) which as you said is very close to ancient greek, be informed that Cathareuousa was Greece's official language since 1975. Well that explains a lot about the language NOT being dead..
English, Dutch, German. Bit of French and Spanish but that doesn't count.
I am fluent in English and Filipino. I can speak a little of Spanish and French.
Does secret language count? If it does, then allow me to say I am fluent in "Horse."
Four for me. :blush:
1. Slovenian.
2. Yugoslavian
3. English
4. German
I guess I can converse decently in Latin...but seeing as how it's a "dead" language, I shan't mention it. I can also manage to make myself understood in high school Spanish, but it's not something I flaunt...the ability is slowly fading away anyways.
I'm studying French and Japanese now, as well. :D I can read, write, and converse decently in them already, but I'm going to need a little more work before I dare call myself fluent in them.
One, but I've been trying to learn Magyar for the longest time, and pretty soon I'm going to start working on my oligo-synthetic conlang again(I stopped because it was extremely stressful).
Two. I only speak English and my national language and that's it. I'm currently learning how to speak French, but everytime I try, my tongue get's tired and I will stop, and I'll try the next time and the next time and the next time until I really get to know how to speak it. "Try and try until you succeed" as the saying goes!
How many languages do you speak?
Three
(Romanian, English and Spanish)
Three:
Norwegian, somali and english.
Two:
English and Chinese (though I wasn't brought up in China and started learning it late. I do use it at home though.)
Mandarin or cantonese?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas Thorne
Mandarin. I guess I call Mandarin 'Chinese' because it is the lingua franca of nearly all of China now.:)
I fluently speak one language, English.
I can, rather haltingly, converse in both Spanish and Farsi though. My depth of understanding in Farsi is much better than Spanish though.
Also, I have a crazy internal dialogue that I scarcely understand.
Also, for my job, I speak SQL, CSS, HTML, ASP, C# and occasionally javascript. Does machine interaction count? :D
My first language is French and secound is English but thanks to school theres a course you can take to learn Spanish from 10th grade to 12 :)
Fluently: Serbian, Croatian, French, English.. and Latin. Even though it's not spoken- to be able to read/write..
Learning: German (with reckless abandon), and Russian (ah, 70% there).
Well, I speak English . . . I just wouldn't say 'fluently.'
Just English, although I am learning Spanish in High School and want to become fluent.
*bump*
My mom tongue (Spanish) and English, though they should be a few more by now.
I was a kid when I developed an interest in Italian, then I saw the first movie at the cinema, spoken in English, without the Spanish dubbing that is still common here in movies broadcast on TV, and I forgot Italian, therefore leaning towards English. I asked my parents to pay me classes at a language institute, because back then language teaching in our public educational system really sucked (and still does). They agreed and I began English. At first I couldn't show much language talent. I had a few big difficulties during the process, due to what I now perceive as insufficient explanations from the teachers and a general failure of the system. My grades were barely a bit over the average, which put me in a position of humble academic brilliance, but I insisted. In time, I figured most of what caused me trouble when I was a kid, and my grades also flew higher. Maybe I was just immature at the beginning. Not that I want to show off, but I became practically unbeatable in the last three years of studies, though this may comply with the reasonable explanation that the other mates did not love the language as much as I did. They were in class mostly because their parents were financially able to keep them entertained indoors, but not because they wanted to grab a knowledge out of a class.