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Well the reality is. God and Satan are both a creation of the mind of man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny5
In order to evaluate something there must be a base. We think in opposites.
Good/Evil, God/Satan, etc.
It's a by product of living on an earth made of opposites.
Opposing poles, Night/Day, hot/cold, life/death.
You can't say something is good if there isn't something evil to base your judgement on.
Reality? How do you know reality isn't a creation of your mind? Do you think your reality is the same as mine? Is your reality the same as anyones? How could it be? We are all individual filters on the universe. What is the probability that we see anything the same way? What you are calling reality is simply an overlap in common experience between one or many.
I believe God and Satan to be the same.
As you said reality is a creation of the mind. Everyone's may be different.
To say my reality is SIMPLY AN OVERLAP IN COMMON EXPERIENCE BETWEEN ONE OR MANY, says I am not an individual free thinker but a sheep amongst the brain washed masses. Wrong.
I believe God and Satan do not exist at all except as an extension of the mind. How we choose. There is a balance and opposing sides. Call them what you will.
You live your life. Either you create your heaven or you create your hell as you live it and as you like it or not.
Life is a matter of odds. What you do betters your odds to achieve or have what happens around you happen. You create a goal for yourself. Then you do things to achieve it. Those things you do to try and achieve are bettering your odds for your goal to happen.
[QUOTE=Rockin462;463105]As you said reality is a creation of the mind. Everyone's may be different.
To say my reality is SIMPLY AN OVERLAP IN COMMON EXPERIENCE BETWEEN ONE OR MANY, says I am not an individual free thinker but a sheep amongst the brain washed masses. Wrong.QUOTE]
I do agree with skull farmer. Our realities our shaped by experience, and depending on our experiences, they overlap. From the difference between my experience on this earth and a someone from Africa's experiences, our realities are different by a much higher degree than mine and my next door neighbour. However I am a pretty religious person (but I am open to new ideas about religion) so I do not agree that god and the devil are the same person. And I do not understand how you can think god and satan are the same.
Please explain what you mean and your point of view. I am interested and totally open hearted.
I believe you've misinterpreted my meaning as I've perhaps done a poor job of explaining it. Firstly, I wasn't singling you out, but was speaking in more general terms. What I meant was that what you and I agree on as reality is actually a smaller part of who we are. We are all made up of our experiences and what you and I truly understand about one another is the small overlap of common experience that tends to garner for itself the label of 'reality'. I was actually suggesting that reality is much wider versus much narrower than what is commonly suggested by the word. Also, I'm not certain the brainwashed masses exist. I've never met them anyway. I think people usually have a valid reason for doing what they do in the context of their own reality. Sure, we may find it easy to just write people off as stupid but without understanding motivation then it is we who judge who ignore facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin462
Of course you can say if something is good without something evil to base it on. At least I can. If something makes me happy without hurting anyone else, I consider it good. That doesn't mean I have to hurt someone to know that. Babies know that to be held and loved is good without knowing that to be neglected and hated is bad. I believe that there are truly evil people living in our world and satan was created to explain them. The Devil made them do it is much easier to accept for most people than the fact that there are just plain evil people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin462
From a Christian friend's point of view (I talked to him after starting this discussion) Satan is the root of all evil. God wants to make human beings perfect. Satan was the original rebel against God's plan, so when the End comes he's off to Hell. Satan knows this so he wants to corrupt as many people as possible and drag them down to the eternal fire with him. Misery loves company. Satan is not only NOT a figment of the imagination, he actively tries to cause people to slip up and go down with him. The evil people in the world did not cause Satan. Satan caused them.
How do you know the baby doesn't feel neglected the moment it is not being held? Hence they cry when they are put down? Babies are greedy. Do they not only think of themselves?
You may not have had to hurt someone because you have seen hurt done by others or have seen pain in life itself? No one leads a sheltered enough life to not have seen pain, suffering, hatred, misfortune or anything that someone may call evil!
Thinkerr, in a life of free will. The outside influences that can change perspective or sway a decision is what you are calling Satan? It' not a voice in your head is it?
I see things as odds. The company you keep, the decisions you make, the places you are or go, the goals you make, your desire to achieve them. It all changes the odds to what happens in your day and life. Freak instances or happenings,common occurances, what are chances or odds of them happening?
The cop out the devil made me do it, is someone who can't atone for their own doings. Call them psycho or evil or whatever. But that same trait exists in all of us. Some don't have enough self control to stop themselves.
Generally speaking, people have the self control to not do what they know is wrong. Some don't. And then there is the point that we do what we think is right. It may not be right to all.
I do disagree that we are merely a by product of our surroundings. As many things I see the way I do may be different from someone in Africa, or next door. There is many the same. We are considered individuals for a reason. But that doesn't mean 2 people from completely different worlds couldn't agree on most things.
Rockin, I do agree with you up to a point.
Some women in the Middle East believe its okay to be treated as such and not having the "freedom" that woman in America would consider to be okay. Because these women grew up in the Middle East and were taught this by their religious leaders, they believe that's okay. Most women in America, because they were born with more freedoms, don't think this is okay. Being born in the Middle East totally influenced their thoughts about women's freedoms.
And as we have individual thoughts and personalities and as we are individual thinkers, a lot of our ideas about religion, politics, and freedoms are developed by our communities, societies, and parents. They may differ because my thoughts on religion are definitely different than my parents, but I grew up with ideas about politics and have those same ideas today.
Please explain your thoughts if they differ.
I believe, to say we are simply a by product of our surroundings is naive.
Though many people do not have the will to allow themselves true free thought, there are many great thinkers who do.
Our decisions change our lives daily. Some people who do not analyze or make informed decisions but simply do as expected or as taught, I can agree will be a by product of their surroundings and family influences.
Though someone is unable to express their desire in some places on this earth, doesn't mean they don't have them. And there is people with the courage to stand when told to lay down.
With Freewill we have the ability to shape our lives, surroundings, and decisions to create the outcome we desire. It doesn't always go the way we would like. And people change.
I believe life is a set of odds. Everything that happens and all that we do can be calculated. We dont have much control of what's to come, except to say, we can better the odds to achieve what we desire.
I was raised Catholic. I have ventured into brief studies of other religions. I came to the conclusion that religion is a base set of laws for which people to live by. Beyond that, human beings manipulated the WORD for their benefit through out the centuries. The also use the WORD to cause the greatest man made catastrophies. War and worse.
If we could as Human beings go 1 step ahead of religion and regional, family beliefs. And create a set of Laws for Humanity that superceed any and all other belief systems, we could truly break down the walls that separate us and no matter where we dwell or what we believe, we could be treated all as equals.
After all, isn't that what Jesus tried to do?
Hi, my name is Doug. I haven't posted in these forums for at least 6 months. When I logged in this morning I got this:
Hello Wintermute it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?
So, I figured I better hop to it!
The topics being discussed in this formum seem to be indistinguishable from those of six months ago. You have the folks that think there is some sort of creator, and those that don't. Both argue with conviction and passion. Then you have agnostic goobers like me that get more and more uncertain as we read all of these well written posts (I'm just assuming there are a few of us). My off-topic question is: Has anyone changed thier minds or gained a deeper understanding of the opposite's perspective? If so, this would seem to be a worthy forum.
I think I have learned some things from reading the posts here, so I will continue to do so. And, occasionally, I'll post something to keep from being yelled at by the forum.
Moderator: Sorry, didn't know what else to post.
i'm almost at same page as Rockin, that is what i think too ...
i'm just following one law and that is , my moral code...
My moral is telling me what is good what bad / evil.
I would be careful with saying "Satan is evil in and of himself" if you are going to quote Lewis. Lewis most definitely believed that evil can not exist in and of itself but can only be a perversion of something good.Quote:
Originally Posted by weepingforloman