Chekhov Short Story Thread

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09-13-2007, 10:10 PM
Quark

downing, that's a good post. You've hit on one of the big questions in the story. Is Gurov in love? Or, is he looking for escape from his monotonous life?

Quote:

Originally Posted by downing

I believe that this quote shows that Gurov was transfomed on the course of the story. At the beginning- a womanizer, at the end, a man who is capable of loving with his entire soul. Another quote which sustains this idea is:

So Gurov is transformed. He begins as an aging adulterer and ends as a passionate lover. I have to admit that I am partial to this reading. I like to think that Gurov is capable of change and love. Where do you think Gurov changes, though? Do you think it was a conscious change and a total change?

Quote:

Originally Posted by downing

This is a very fine idea which I also found in The Great Gatsby. Unfortunately, I couldn't discover the quote online: the idea of the primordial existence of nature, which goes on, whereas we are passing elements through Universe.

I found another resemblance between Anna Karenina and this Chekhov short story: the fact that the adulterous man and woman are always unhappy. Again, I can't find the quote from Anna Karenina because I don't know the chapter, but I know that Vronsky told Anna that they are doomed and insisted on this word. If the adulturous person is separated from the lover, she is unhappy, but if they are together she is also unhappy, because they cannot stay too much- the same problem which appears to Gurov and Anna at the end of the story. But the word unhappy appears in this part of the story:

You're going to make me read Anna Karenina again. I'm straining to remember, but I think you're right. Vronsky has this tragic take on adultery which turns out to be rather prescient. Both Anna's in these stories are faced with similar circumstances. They each have to choose whether to be loyal to their social duties or accept their new love affairs. Both Tolstoy and Chekhov end in a noncommittal way. One Anna is killed by a train, and the other isn't given enough room by the author to make a decision.

The adultery tale I thought of when I read the Chekhov story was actually Edith Wharton's The Age of Innocence. But, on second thought, I think that Anna Karenina is much better comparison. The Age of Innocence ends much more conclusively than the other two. Wharton wanted to attack society with her book, and I think the others just wanted to represent the conflict between private and public lives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by downing

Interesting.
The fact that our secret lives are our real lives- I believe that this is one of the text's main ideas.

Gurov certainly believes that. He says so directly to the reader. I'm not sure I believe it, though. Gurov is a married man trying to have an illicit affair with a married woman. The conclusion that personal interests should be placed about the standards of the community seems self-serving coming from someone in Gurov's place. I can't say I'm convinced. The cause of Gurov's unhappiness isn't the fact that he's neglected his secret life. In fact, he leads a full secret life--maybe even an over-full secret life. Gurov's depression stems more from his poor marriage choice. Chekhov leads us to believe that his marriage began like his one of his affairs. Dmitri was searching for variety and lustful pleasure and he met his future wife. After they get married, though, the relationship becomes unbearable because he doesn't care for his wife at all. He then proceeds to have many concupiscent affairs with same motive that got him his wife. Between the affairs and his marriage he does manage to strike a healthy balance (sort of). Anna changes this. When Gurov discovers genuine affection for another person, his previous life becomes unlivable, and he risks everything to meet with Anna. I think one of the main themes of the story is that love is more real than pleasure. When I talked about setting, I brought up a quote from the story that I think is quite good. I'll repeat it:

Quote:

At Oreanda they sat on a seat not far from the church, looked down at the sea, and were silent. Yalta was hardly visible through the morning mist; white clouds stood motionless on the mountain-tops. The leaves did not stir on the trees, grasshoppers chirruped, and the monotonous hollow sound of the sea rising up from below, spoke of the peace, of the eternal sleep awaiting us. So it must have sounded when there was no Yalta, no Oreanda here; so it sounds now, and it will sound as indifferently and monotonously when we are all no more. And in this constancy, in this complete indifference to the life and death of each of us, there lies hid, perhaps, a pledge of our eternal salvation, of the unceasing movement of life upon earth, of unceasing progress towards perfection. Sitting beside a young woman who in the dawn seemed so lovely, soothed and spellbound in these magical surroundings — the sea, mountains, clouds, the open sky — Gurov thought how in reality everything is beautiful in this world when one reflects: everything except what we think or do ourselves when we forget our human dignity and the higher aims of our existence.

Chekhov put it more poetically than I did, but that's what I'm saying.

Once again, downing, thanks for writing. It sounds like you took something meaningful away from the story--which is good so long as you condescend to share it with the rest of us. Just tell me if you think I messed something up (I probably did).
09-13-2007, 10:46 PM
Janine

Two truly excellent posts - Downing and Quark! I enjoyed reading them, although I won't comment at this time. I am too tired out now. I think both of you said it all very articulately anyway, so not sure I could add anything else to these fine posts. And no Q, you did not mess something up!... stop knocking yourself!
I will only comment now on this - I do see what you mean Q, about Gurov being this time really in love and not just a state of lust or pursuit of the woman. Also, I see that Downing agrees with this and she has posted some good quotes to support her postion. So therefore, I consider it might be the case this this older gray haired Gurov has now found the true meaning of love, even though it is so late in his life.
09-14-2007, 05:47 AM
downing

Wow, thank you both for your appreciation...I am flattered! :)

Quark- excellent post, just like Janine said.
Interesting idea about the resemblance between Age of Innocence and this Chekhov short story. Unfortunately, I haven't read the book you are referring at, even though I heard about it. I make you re-read Anna Karenina and you make me read The Age of Innocence.:lol:

Quote:

So Gurov is transformed. He begins as an aging adulterer and ends as a passionate lover. I have to admit that I am partial to this reading. I like to think that Gurov is capable of change and love. Where do you think Gurov changes, though? Do you think it was a conscious change and a total change?

To quote you again, I think that Gurov changes when he finds that 'genuine affection' for Anna. Until now, in the other affairs it was never love, as Chekhov says in the end, just lustful desire. I think it was lustful desire in his and Anna's case too, perhaps until the beginning of their sexual relationship.

Quote:

But here the timidity and awkwardness of youth and inexperience were still apparent; and there was a feeling of embarrassment in the atmosphere, as if someone had just knocked at the door. Anna Sergeyevna, "the lady with the dog," seemed to regard the affair as something very special, very serious, as if she had become a fallen woman, an attitude he found odd and disconcerting.

She is really different to the other women he was with and I think that her timidity and awakwardeness make him fall in love. And there is something else, too- the idea of soulmates.

Quote:

They were like two migrating birds, the male and the female, who had been caught and put into separate cages. They forgave one another all that they were ashamed of in the past and in the present, and felt that this love of theirs had changed them both.

Janine, don't kill me. I know you don't believe in the 'soulmates' idea.:lol: :lol:

Quark, do you disagree with the idea that 'our secret lives are our real lives'? I think it is a real thing, because we don't show everything to society, we look like different persons in real life, different than we really are. In one of our interesting IM discussions when talking about this, Janine said that even LitNet is the place where we are ourselves...it is the our secret life:D.

Quote:

Once again, downing, thanks for writing. It sounds like you took something meaningful away from the story--which is good so long as you condescend to share it with the rest of us. Just tell me if you think I messed something up (I probably did).

You are welcome. It is my pleasure! And you messed up nothing :)
09-16-2007, 11:07 PM
Quark

Alright, I'm back. I hope everyone had as lazy of a weekend as I did. I went off to my parents house for the weekend, and I didn't get a chance to post anything--even though it seemed like the conversation was starting to pick up. I don't know if I'll have time tonight to write some responses, but I will try to post tomorrow morning (so long as I don't have to work). downing raises some good points that don't need anything added, and she has some that could be debated. I'll be a little more specific tomorrow, I promise.
09-17-2007, 03:47 PM
chaplin

Hello,

I'm glad that Chekhov is being read and discussed, he truly deserves it, I mean he is the greatest short story writer ever (in my opinion, of course).

Pertaining to "The Lady with the Little Dog", I don't think it could be called exactly an autobiographical story, but it has obvious parallels to Chekhov's life. I don't know if they were worked into the story consciously or unconsciously, but I think they are definitely there. For example, at the end of the story he writes:
"And only now when his head was grey he had fallen properly, really in love -- for the first time in his life."

Gurov's path to "love" -a series of mostly physical relationships with a variety of different women- shadow's Chekhov's life. Chekhov had numerous liaisons, some sexual others not, with a really wide range of women, including even a pair of bi-sexual actresses, and two or three sets of "three sisters".

That being said, I don't think that Gurov is really at all Chekhov embodied in fiction. Chekhov had a knack for having autobiographical details of the story (a characters profession, as a doctor, a story's setting etc.) but was able to create a character from entirely original sources and not use him or her as a mouthpiece or mirror of himself.

Anyway, thank you for allowing me to add to your discussion and don't hesitate to tell me to stop if I depreciate it in any way.
09-17-2007, 04:57 PM
Quark

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaplin

Hello,

Where have you been? You may be the biggest Chekhov fan in this forum, and we haven't heard from you at all, yet. What do you think of the story? Many critics consider it Chekhov's best. Are they completely wrong or exactly right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaplin

I'm glad that Chekhov is being read and discussed, he truly deserves it, I mean he is the greatest short story writer ever (in my opinion, of course).

I think Chekhov may be the most accessible and popular short story writer. That's why I wanted to devote a thread to his stories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaplin

Pertaining to "The Lady with the Little Dog", I don't think it could be called exactly an autobiographical story, but it has obvious parallels to Chekhov's life. I don't know if they were worked into the story consciously or unconsciously, but I think they are definitely there. For example, at the end of the story he writes:
"And only now when his head was grey he had fallen properly, really in love -- for the first time in his life."

Gurov's path to "love" -a series of mostly physical relationships with a variety of different women before finding a marriageable mate- shadow's Chekhov's life. Chekhov had numerous liaisons, some sexual others not, with a really wide range of women, including even a pair of bi-sexual actresses, and two or three sets of "three sisters".

That being said, I don't think that Gurov is really at all Chekhov embodied in fiction. This is evident in Gurov's attitude toward love. It is more optimistic, hopeful, or, better, anticipative than Chekhov's. Even when Chekhov married Olga Knipper, I feel, that he wasn't enamored with her the way Gurov is with Anna. Chekhov definitely had a very fond affection for her, otherwise he wouldn't have married her (a step he was very cautious of taking); but, in his letters to and about Knipper, he never uses the rapturous language that Gurov sometimes does.

downing brought up the possible connection between Dmitri and Chekhov, and I wasn't sure how to respond--since I know so little about Chekhov's personal life. I had a feeling that Gurov's attitudes were probably similar to the writer's own, but it sounds like that their ideas could be pretty opposite. Was Chekhov really that dark? Do you think that maybe Chekhov would have accepted the more cynical reading of this story (that Gurov isn't really in love)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by downing

Interesting idea about the resemblance between Age of Innocence and this Chekhov short story. Unfortunately, I haven't read the book you are referring at, even though I heard about it. I make you re-read Anna Karenina and you make me read The Age of Innocence.:lol:

There are some parallels between the Age of Innocence and "The Lady with the Dog", but I wouldn't rush out to read the Wharton book. I actually like the Chekhov story better because it's much more succinct and poetic. Wharton's story is much more of a comedy of manners, and a lot of the book is lost on a twenty-first century audience. It can be boring at times. There are some good parts--the love story is well done--but the book delves deeply into these social questions that I really didn't care about. Stick with Anna Karenina.

Quote:

Originally Posted by downing

She is really different to the other women he was with and I think that her timidity and awakwardeness make him fall in love.

Yeah, I noticed this too. It's a good point, downing. Gurov calls her "pathetic", and that's her most attractive quality. Why is this? What's going on here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by downing

And there is something else, too- the idea of soulmates.

Janine, don't kill me. I know you don't believe in the 'soulmates' idea.:lol: :lol:

You and Janine can fight this one out, but I think I'll stay neutral. Although, the more important question might not be whether "soulmates" exist in reality, but whether they exist in the story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by downing

Quark, do you disagree with the idea that 'our secret lives are our real lives'? I think it is a real thing, because we don't show everything to society, we look like different persons in real life, different than we really are. In one of our interesting IM discussions when talking about this, Janine said that even LitNet is the place where we are ourselves...it is the our secret life:D.

What do I believe? Oh, no, I keep that hidden. I was just arguing that the story, itself, doesn't really give me the idea that the secret, personal life is more important than the exposed, public one. Gurov believes that strongly at the end, but he isn't exactly a believable character at that point.
09-19-2007, 06:07 PM
chaplin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quark

What do you think of the story? Many critics consider it Chekhov's best. Are they completely wrong or exactly right?

It is one of my favorites, the more times I read it the more I love it; and it is really a perfect story to illustrate what made Chekhov so great. For example, the minor, yet essential details inserted right in the middle of important scenes, (e.g. Gurov slicing a piece of watermelon as Anna sits dejected and troubled after they become lovers, two youths casting glances at Anna and Gurov from a staircase while they meet at the theater) which create a sense of reality that most other authors, being distracted with morals, messages, and conventional climax, take a pass on. Vladimir Nabokov sums it all up best: "All the traditional rules of story telling have been broken in this wonderful short story of twenty pages or so. There is no problem, no regular climax, no point at the end. And it is one of the greatest stories ever written."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quark

downing brought up the possible connection between Dmitri and Chekhov, and I wasn't sure how to respond--since I know so little about Chekhov's personal life. I had a feeling that Gurov's attitudes were probably similar to the writer's own, but it sounds like that their ideas could be pretty opposite. Was Chekhov really that dark? Do you think that maybe Chekhov would have accepted the more cynical reading of this story (that Gurov isn't really in love)?

I would say that reading too far into the autobiographical side of the story would be a mistake, as is true for most of the great authors.

It's easy to see the story cynically or pessimistically (which critics seem to have done with every Chekhov story), but I find think pessimistic is a word that rarely can accurately describe a Chekhov story. Particularly with this one. Conventionally, it would seem pessimistic, if compared to more fairy tale-like stories ("happily ever after"), but, in fact, when viewed against the backdrop of reality, of real life it is really neither. There is no "Love will overcome" or "Love is an illusion"; just: this is what these two people felt. (Nabokov: "There is no special moral to be drawn and no special message to be received.")

I've also read on previous posts about the ending of the story. I feel it is absolutely perfect. Chekhov's endings aren't for everybody, but I, personally, find them some of the most satisfying of any author. Again, Nabokov: "The story does not really end, for as long as people are alive, there is no possible or definite conclusion to their troubles or hopes or dreams."
09-23-2007, 10:11 AM
Quark

It's been a few days since I've posted. Sorry, I've been studying for the GRE (the big test that's going to decide everything that will happen in my life for years to come). I do want to keep the discussion going if I can. It's just going to be a little difficult until the 29th.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaplin

it is really a perfect story to illustrate what made Chekhov so great. For example, the minor, yet essential details inserted right in the middle of important scenes, (e.g. Gurov slicing a piece of watermelon as Anna sits dejected and troubled after they become lovers, two youths casting glances at Anna and Gurov from a staircase while they meet at the theater) which create a sense of reality

Yes, the Chekhov is in the details. I especially liked Gurov eating the watermelon while Anna is having her scene in the hotel room. The careless way in which he regards Anna makes it clear to us how Dmitri feels about women--at that point. Also, it reflects how the reader is feeling during that scene. We know that Anna's is only being insecure here, and we know that she sincerely likes and wants to make love to Gurov. Yet, she has this scene in the hotel room because of her own insecurity. It makes us all want to roll our eyes and do something to pass the time until she's done. Gurov casually strolling over to eat a watermelon is perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaplin

that most other authors, being distracted with morals, messages, and conventional climax, take a pass on. Vladimir Nabokov sums it all up best: "All the traditional rules of story telling have been broken in this wonderful short story of twenty pages or so. There is no problem, no regular climax, no point at the end. And it is one of the greatest stories ever written."

If Chekhov wasn't interested in morals, messages, or the usual methods of storytelling, what do you think Chekhov wanted to do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaplin

It's easy to see the story cynically or pessimistically (which critics seem to have done with every Chekhov story), but I find think pessimistic is a word that rarely can accurately describe a Chekhov story. Particularly with this one. Conventionally, it would seem pessimistic, if compared to more fairy tale-like stories ("happily ever after"), but, in fact, when viewed against the backdrop of reality, of real life it is really neither. There is no "Love will overcome" or "Love is an illusion"; just: this is what these two people felt. (Nabokov: "There is no special moral to be drawn and no special message to be received.")

I've also read on previous posts about the ending of the story. I feel it is absolutely perfect. Chekhov's endings aren't for everybody, but I, personally, find them some of the most satisfying of any author. Again, Nabokov: "The story does not really end, for as long as people are alive, there is no possible or definite conclusion to their troubles or hopes or dreams."

I think it's fair enough to say that the writer doesn't give us, the readers, one message about love and relationships in this story. I don't think you can say that Chekhov was simply cynical or idealistic about those topics. There is so much conflicting information; and, as we've pointed out, there is no typical conclusion that points to what's going to happen next. That being said, though, I think we can still learn something from reading the story. It made me think about how both personal insecurity and mundane sameness can threaten togetherness. I don't mean to suggest that that is the moral or point of the story. I just think it's part of the representation of life that's in the story. It's not a conclusion, just a thought.

Did anyone else come away with anything?
11-11-2007, 05:06 AM
zinfar

Does anybody know where to find an on line english translation of "He and She" by Chekhov? If so please email me at [email protected]. Thank you
02-12-2008, 01:54 PM
gijmaj

Chekov is the master of the short stories. each one is characteristic. discribing one side of the man.
02-12-2008, 04:14 PM
Janine

Since this thread, 'Chekhov' came up today in the listings in bold, does anyone know if we are going to revive it soon? I bought the audio CD's of about 8 of his stories and I would like to discuss them.

If anyone is interested, I would be interested in reading and discussing a Chekhov story next month or perhaps the following month.
02-12-2008, 04:41 PM
Quark

Oh, alright, Janine

Remind me again which stories do you have?
02-12-2008, 05:31 PM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quark

Oh, alright, Janine

Remind me again which stories do you have?

Quark, you are killing me! ...*groan groan*....:( I'm lazy and I don't feel like typing them out again. I just looked through posts and can't find them, but will find a way to list them. Maybe they are listed in a PM and some are still past PM's in my file, so I might find the list. If not I will check online and copy and paste the titles. I know the main one is 'In the Ravine'.

Now,Quark, get over to the Lawrence thread and post something super intelligent to stun me!
02-12-2008, 06:16 PM
Quark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

I know the main one is 'In the Ravine'.

Hmm, "In the Ravine" isn't my favorite story, but it is a popular one so maybe it would be good. I try to find the stories that will generate interest more than the ones I just happen to like. I'll read over "In the Ravine" tonight and see what I think.

I'll also send out some PMs to see if there really are enough people interested to reach that critical mass needed for discussion. If I can find four or five moderately interested people, then I'll give it shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

Now,Quark, get over to the Lawrence thread and post something super intelligent to stun me!

Um, yes ma'am
02-15-2008, 01:44 AM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quark

Hmm, "In the Ravine" isn't my favorite story, but it is a popular one so maybe it would be good. I try to find the stories that will generate interest more than the ones I just happen to like. I'll read over "In the Ravine" tonight and see what I think.

Quark, since that is a longer story we could save that until the summer months when people might have more time. I would like to discuss it eventually.

Quote:

I'll also send out some PMs to see if there really are enough people interested to reach that critical mass needed for discussion. If I can find four or five moderately interested people, then I'll give it shot.

Hey, I am here. How many people do you need? :lol: As I told Virgil before, 'If you build it, they will come'....(think of 'Field of Dreams')...it worked in the Lawrence thread. I track 'em down, too. Just send me on the mission and I will find more Chekhov people. If the wander I will drag them back. I am stick with it, when I am determined to do something. Have faith we will get this thread moving along again.:thumbs_up

Quote:

Um, yes ma'am

:lol: Well, it worked and you did stun me!;)
02-15-2008, 10:55 PM
islandclimber

I love Chekhov! though somehow I've lost my book of his short works... :bawling: Oh well, time to get a new one I guess... But, I'm interested in discussing any of his works... The Ravine isn't my favourite either though it is the most popular... I really like "Ward No. 6"... and the "The Black Monk" always struck me as being particularly interesting...:)
02-15-2008, 11:26 PM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandclimber

I love Chekhov! though somehow I've lost my book of his short works... :bawling: Oh well, time to get a new one I guess... But, I'm interested in discussing any of his works... The Ravine isn't my favourite either though it is the most popular... I really like "Ward No. 6"... and the "The Black Monk" always struck me as being particularly interesting...:)

Hi islandclimber, it is good to have another person interested in Chekhov, so welcome abroad! I told Quark, if we started this thread up again people, would show up. You have proven my theory.:)
You better order another Chekhov book real soon. It seems the audiobook, I bought recently, doesn't have the stories everyone keeps mentioning...*sigh sigh*. I will list them here soon and maybe you have heard of some that are good ones. I don't have a book of Chekhov myself, and was hoping to use the audio CD's - there are about 10 stories at least to choose from. I will post the list later or tomorrow. I hope we can get a story going by March. What do you think? Would March be good for you?
Currently, we have a great short story thread, which has been getting better and better with every new story. This is the 'Lawrence Short Stories' - if you like DHL's stories, as well, do come over and join us. We have read/discussed such interesting ones so far, and our little thread has just topped out at 1000posts! :thumbs_up (in under a year) You can see it is quite active! Funny, the story we did prior to the one we are discussing now was called "The Man Who Loved Island" - I notice your user name. You could have called the character in this particular short story an 'island hopper'.
02-15-2008, 11:45 PM
islandclimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

Currently, we have a great short story thread, which has been getting better and better with every new story. This is the 'Lawrence Short Stories' - if you like DHL's stories, as well, do come over and join us. We have read/discussed such interesting ones so far, and our little thread has just topped out at 1000posts! :thumbs_up (in under a year) You can see it is quite active! Funny, the story we did prior to the one we are discussing now was called "The Man Who Loved Island" - I notice your user name. You could have called the character in this particular short story an 'island hopper'.

I will come over... though, DHL with me is very hit and miss, some I really like, some I really don't care for... But I'm always interested in discussing things I've read... Interesting story name, I haven't actually read it, so I guess I'll have to now...

I've ordered a new copy of Chekhov, but for now all of them are online at different sites, even here on the online-lit site I think... I like alot of Chekhov so I am sure there will be something you have that everyone interested in this discussion can enjoy...:)
02-16-2008, 12:28 AM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandclimber

I will come over... though, DHL with me is very hit and miss, some I really like, some I really don't care for... But I'm always interested in discussing things I've read... Interesting story name, I haven't actually read it, so I guess I'll have to now...

I've ordered a new copy of Chekhov, but for now all of them are online at different sites, even here on the online-lit site I think... I like alot of Chekhov so I am sure there will be something you have that everyone interested in this discussion can enjoy...:)

Oh good; you can try the next story with us and see how you like it. We have not picked one yet, but I do have some ideas of some good ones or ones I heard were quite good. So far, all we have discussed everyone seems to have liked. Quark said the last two, he particularly liked, but I think that is because we had more participation and so a better exchange of ideas, which lead to a better understanding of the stories and just what Lawrence was conveying or trying to convey.
You should read the 'island' one; it is quite interesting. Of course, discussing it made it more so.

About the Chekhov audiobook I own, these are the stories.
The CD is called:

Anton Chekhov ~ In the Ravine and Other Short Stories ~ read by Kenneth Branagh.
Oh! The Public, The Choris Girl, The Trousseau, A Story Without a Title, Children, Misery, Fat and Thin, The Begger, Hush!, The Orator, An Actor's End.
So these CD's actually include 12 stories. Do you know any of them? I am going to go check the internet and Amazon for books of his stories now. Yes, I know that this site has some of the short stories with the texts.
02-16-2008, 12:43 AM
Quark

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandclimber

I love Chekhov! though somehow I've lost my book of his short works... :bawling: Oh well, time to get a new one I guess... But, I'm interested in discussing any of his works... The Ravine isn't my favourite either though it is the most popular... I really like "Ward No. 6"... and the "The Black Monk" always struck me as being particularly interesting...:)

Yeah, "Ward No. 6" is another good Chekhov story, but, like "In the Ravine", it's over 40 pages. Some people might find it a bit taxing. I was thinking about doing either "A Doctor's Visit" which is a moving story about the woes of industrialism in Russia or "On the Road" which is one of the funnier Chekhov short stories. Neither of these books are in Janine's audio book, though, and I don't know whether I can persuade her to read one on her computer screen (as I've done for the Lawrence thread). I hope you can join in with the discussion, islandclimber. We should start by the beginning of next month.

Oh, and I certainly suggest you take a look at the Lawrence thread, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

About the Chekhov audiobook I own, these are the stories.
The CD is called:

Anton Chekhov ~ In the Ravine and Other Short Stories ~ read by Kenneth Branagh.
Oh! The Public, The Choris Girl, The Trousseau, A Story Without a Title, Children, Misery, Fat and Thin, The Begger, Hush!, The Orator, An Actor's End.
So these CD's actually include 12 stories. Do you know any of them? I am going to go check the internet and Amazon for books of his stories now. Yes, I know that this site has some of the short stories with the texts.

I've heard of these other stories, but some of them are rather obscure. I'll try to read them over the weekend. If I find one that I think would work for next month, I'll let you know.
02-16-2008, 01:11 AM
islandclimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quark

Yeah, "Ward No. 6" is another good Chekhov story, but, like "In the Ravine", it's over 40 pages. Some people might find it a bit taxing. I was thinking about doing either "A Doctor's Visit" which is a moving story about the woes of industrialism in Russia or "On the Road" which is one of the funnier Chekhov short stories. Neither of these books are in Janine's audio book, though, and I don't know whether I can persuade her to read one on her computer screen (as I've done for the Lawrence thread). I hope you can join in with the discussion, islandclimber. We should start by the beginning of next month.

I've heard of these other stories, but some of them are rather obscure. I'll try to read them over the weekend. If I find one that I think would work for next month, I'll let you know.

I like both of the stories you mention... "On the Road" is quite funny for Chekhov...

of Janine's stories I actually quite like a couple of them... "Misery" is quite a moving short work about a sledge driver... a little sad, though i guess the name implies so... and "A Story Without a Title" is quite good as well, kind of almost a religious comedy, temptation and all... the end makes it almost comic.. and "Oh! the public" as well is really good... the story of an alcoholic...

the others are decent, just not quite in the same league in my opinion... the only ones i haven't read are "the trosseau" and "the chorus girl"...

I'm a little envious about the audio cd.. :) I really like Kenneth Branagh... all the shakespeare I've seen him in was fantastic..
02-16-2008, 01:49 AM
Quark

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandclimber

I like both of the stories you mention... "On the Road" is quite funny for Chekhov...

of Janine's stories I actually quite like a couple of them... "Misery" is quite a moving short work about a sledge driver... a little sad, though i guess the name implies so... and "A Story Without a Title" is quite good as well, kind of almost a religious comedy, temptation and all... the end makes it almost comic.. and "Oh! the public" as well is really good... the story of an alcoholic...

the others are decent, just not quite in the same league in my opinion... the only ones i haven't read are "the trosseau" and "the chorus girl"...

It sounds like you've already read a few Chekhov stories. I haven't read "Oh! the Public" yet. I'll have to give it a shot over the weekend.
02-16-2008, 02:15 AM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandclimber

I like both of the stories you mention... "On the Road" is quite funny for Chekhov...

Quark, they sound like good ones... but, I really was hoping for the audiobook stories to come up soon. I really enjoy them and can listen while I do other work, and I am going to be kind of busy this coming month. ugh...I hate reading the stories online. I usually can only read about a page at a time that way. I may be able to find some in my library.

Quote:

of Janine's stories I actually quite like a couple of them... "Misery" is quite a moving short work about a sledge driver... a little sad, though i guess the name implies so... and "A Story Without a Title" is quite good as well, kind of almost a religious comedy, temptation and all... the end makes it almost comic.. and "Oh! the public" as well is really good... the story of an alcoholic...

Here is what they say on Amazon about the audiobook collection of stories:

The eleven short stories and one novella (IN THE RAVINE) in this collection are not as well known as the great plays on which Chekhov's reputation rests. Let's hope that this terrific audio version helps change that, as these stories are brilliant evocations of the class-dominated society that Russia has always been. Some are comic, some are sad--all are ultimately tragic. If you insist on Russian stories being read with a Russian accent, this audiobook is not for you, as all the accents are unambiguously British. But if you want an outstanding reading, in which the narrator's voice brilliantly conveys the speaker's class and the intricate relationships between characters during conversations, you can do no better than to listen to Kenneth Branagh. This great actor mesmerizes as he gasps, chuckles, stutters, and declaims. A must listen. R.E.K. 2003 Audie Award Finalist © AudioFile 2003, Portland, Maine-- Copyright © AudioFile, Portland, Maine

Then a customer reviewer added these comments:

First, he said this should be in all libraries and schools. He apparently love the collection and he rated it 5 stars. The total rating for the audiobook was 5 star. He goes on to say:
“Classical music enhances a dramatic narrative performance by film, television, and stage actor Kenneth Branagh who does full justice to these timeless works of literature”.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/962.../ref=wl_it_dp?

Quote:

the others are decent, just not quite in the same league in my opinion... the only ones i haven't read are "the trosseau" and "the chorus girl"...

I'm a little envious about the audio cd.. :) I really like Kenneth Branagh... all the shakespeare I've seen him in was fantastic..

islandclimber, I am a huge Kenneth Branagh fan and have listened to his Shakespeare audiobooks and happen to think they are the finest out there. I love his "Richard III" and his "Hamlet". I recently bought his narration of "Frankenstein" but have not yet heard that. He also plays the fool in "King Lear" audiobook - Naxos - I just bought that. Aside, from that I love his Shakespearan films very much, topping the list is "Henry V", then "Hamlet". I also very much like his role in Othello, but he did not direct that film and it is quite abridged. I have to give the guy credit for using the entire script of 4 hours length in his stunning "Hamlet"; that was brave and commendable.

islandclimber, speaking of brave - is that you in your profile page climbing a very dangerous looking cliff? Yikes, I nearly died when I saw it. I just had to ask; sorry I'm curious.
02-16-2008, 02:22 AM
Etienne

"Sleepy" is probably my favorite of his short stories, if I had to name only one.
02-16-2008, 03:00 AM
islandclimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

islandclimber, I am a huge Kenneth Branagh fan and have listened to his Shakespeare audiobooks and happen to think they are the finest out there. I love his "Richard III" and his "Hamlet". I recently bought his narration of "Frankenstein" but have not yet heard that. He also plays the fool in "King Lear" audiobook - Naxos - I just bought that. Aside, from that I love his Shakespearan films very much, topping the list is "Henry V", then "Hamlet". I also very much like his role in Othello, but he did not direct that film and it is quite abridged. I have to give the guy credit for using the entire script of 4 hours length in his stunning "Hamlet"; that was brave and commendable.

islandclimber, speaking of brave - is that you in your profile page climbing a very dangerous looking cliff? Yikes, I nearly died when I saw it. I just had to ask; sorry I'm curious.

I've heard his "Frankenstein"... it is, as usual, really good... he has quite the voice for narration, full of character, emotion, life... I really liked his films adaptations of "Hamlet" and "Henry V" as well, and then "Much Ado About Nothing" was pretty good..

try "a story without a title"... it is quite the Chekhov story...

yes, that's me climbing, besides reading and writing, I like to spend a little bit of time outside... you know, climb the average cliff... surf the little waves in the sea *smile*... I just love the outdoors...
02-16-2008, 04:37 PM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandclimber

I've heard his "Frankenstein"... it is, as usual, really good... he has quite the voice for narration, full of character, emotion, life... I really liked his films adaptations of "Hamlet" and "Henry V" as well, and then "Much Ado About Nothing" was pretty good..

Oh, I am so anxious now to listen to it. I tend to get hooked on good recordings. I have listened now to his BBC recording of "Hamlet" and his Naxos "Richard III" CD's so many times now I can quote the lines. I love them both. With headphones, you feel like you are right next to him on the stage. I love the book, "Frankenstein" - read it twice so far. To listen to KB read it will be a treat. I took a chance when I bought it; but glad now to get a good review on it. Yes, he has such a range of emotions and his enthusiasm always comes through.

Quote:

try "a story without a title"... it is quite the Chekhov story...

That sounds like an interesting one...is it in most collections? I just may own a Chekhov book of his collected works. I have to hunt through my over-crowded bookshelves. My father left me a legacy of good books and one author may be Chekhov. I thought I saw one one day; however it might only contain his plays. I will try to track it down. Otherwise my library has a few of the short story books.

Quote:

yes, that's me climbing, besides reading and writing, I like to spend a little bit of time outside... you know, climb the average cliff... surf the little waves in the sea *smile*... I just love the outdoors...

Oh my goodness....and what does your mother say about that? I would die. My son has a mountain bike and recently went to Arizona on an excursion. I was a little shaky about that one; now I am glad he does that and does not mountain climb. Are you actually climbing without ropes? Your photo makes it appear so, but then the photo is a bit small. There is another Lit Netter who climbs. I will see who it is. I forget now; I'll ask my friend. He has posted photos of himself and his friend climbing (with ropes) in the Lit Net Photoalbum thread. You might check that out.
02-18-2008, 04:46 PM
Quark

I read through your list of Chekhov stories. The best two are "Oh! The Public!" and "Misery". Both have the usual Chekhov pithiness, and both have an oddly affecting quality about them. I'd choose "Misery" over "Oh! The Public!" since it's a little more emotionally charged and because the structure is more subtle. "Oh! The Public!" is a bit too obvious, I think, but both are enjoyable stories. The only problem with them is that they're a little too pithy maybe. They're awfully short for a month long discussion. Certainly, listen to your audiotapes if you have time, but I think we may be better of picking one of the longer stories I suggested earlier. Or, maybe we could do the two shorter short stories in one month.

What do you think?
02-19-2008, 01:23 AM
Janine

Ok, we could do two then - "Oh! The Public" and "Misery". That would be fine with me. If we end up discussing more than we anticipated and run overtime that is ok, too. Below, is a former quote by islandclimber. He seems in agreement and also sites the story "A Story Without a Title" as being quite good and interesting....that might be a good idea for the following month, April.
Quark did you read all these stories on my audiobook CD's?

Quote:

of Janine's stories I actually quite like a couple of them... "Misery" is quite a moving short work about a sledge driver... a little sad, though i guess the name implies so... and "A Story Without a Title" is quite good as well, kind of almost a religious comedy, temptation and all... the end makes it almost comic.. and "Oh! the public" as well is really good... the story of an alcoholic...
02-19-2008, 05:10 PM
islandclimber

discussing "misery" and "oh! the public" sounds good to me.... even together they aren't that long, and they are both two of my favourites from his really short works...

Janine-- yes that is climbing without a rope... but in that picture it is only bouldering, where you climb boulders usually, or short cliffs up to 25-30 ft high.... you have a spotter and a little pad that is supposed to soften your fall.. tons of fun... I couldn't find the picture of the other climber, the litnet photoalbum is quite big, hard to go through... *smile*

cheers
02-19-2008, 05:25 PM
Quark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

Quark did you read all these stories on my audiobook CD's?

Yeah, most of them are pretty short--except for "In the Ravine", of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

Ok, we could do two then - "Oh! The Public" and "Misery". That would be fine with me. If we end up discussing more than we anticipated and run overtime that is ok, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandclimber

discussing "misery" and "oh! the public" sounds good to me.... even together they aren't that long, and they are both two of my favourites from his really short works...

I think doing those two would work for next month. Officially, the discussion will start on Mar. 1 since it's best to make the schedule for the stories easy to follow (no Aug. 14-Sept. 3 nonsense). I'll probably start posting a few days before March to get things going, but I don't think it will be until the end of next week.

I hope you guys have time to stop in and post.
02-19-2008, 05:51 PM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quark

Yeah, most of them are pretty short--except for "In the Ravine", of course.

Great, then we are all in accordance on the two - "Misery" and "Oh! The Public!" Thanks so much! I can't wait to listen to them. I have had the CD set, since before Christmas, and due to other responsibilities - books and stories on here - I have had to make myself put off listening to it. I am dying now to hear those two stories narrated. I will also try and read the story texts; they are online arent' they? Is it this site or somewhere on the net? I will, no doubt, listen to them twice or more. I like to get a very clear idea of just what is going on in the stories. I usually copy the full text to my hard-drive and then have a short cut to my desktop for easy assess. I have been doing that with the Lawrence short stories and it works well. I can pull up two windows and then underline key words and phrases, and really get a better sense of the meanings, in the story and any symbolism, themes, etc. that become apparent me. This method might work well for you guys, too. If you tile your windows vertically, you can work the two windows so easily, but I am sure you know that already.

Quote:

I think doing those two would work for next month. Officially, the discussion will start on Mar. 1 since it's best to make the schedule for the stories easy to follow (no Aug. 14-Sept. 3 nonsense). I'll probably start posting a few days before March to get things going, but I don't think it will be until the end of next week.

I hope you guys have time to stop in and post.

March 1 will be great. Quark, which one will we start with? Why don't we designate a two week session for each. Great - yes, post an introduction to the first story prior to March, and we can all get reading and form some ideas to begin with. A little structure never hurt anyone. It will keep us on track, like a rudder to a small boat. Otherwise, we will just be a boat adrift, with no direction.

Quote by islandclimber

Quote:

discussing "misery" and "oh! the public" sounds good to me.... even together they aren't that long, and they are both two of my favourites from his really short works...

Glad to know they are short. This should work out well for next month. I may be lagging a little at the end of the month. We are preparing a baby shower for my daughter-in-law, which is around the 31st of March. I am going to be a grandmother, first time!:D But I won't let you guys down...promise. I will be here most of the time and faithful to the cause - let's call it 'reviving the Chekhov thread!'

Quote:

Janine-- yes that is climbing without a rope... but in that picture it is only bouldering, where you climb boulders usually, or short cliffs up to 25-30 ft high.... you have a spotter and a little pad that is supposed to soften your fall.. tons of fun... I couldn't find the picture of the other climber, the litnet photoalbum is quite big, hard to go through... *smile*

Well now that is a comfort - only 25-30 ft drop and a tiny pad to cushion your fall and some idiot below who will get crushed if you do fall. Sooo, you still did not answer my question - what does your mom think of this? I would be having a stroke!
I did ask Virgil who the other climber is and he must have forgot to answer me. I will find out for you. He is quite daring, but I think he does climb with ropes, but then he is up much higher than 25-30 ft, or so it appears in his photos. Wow, islandclimber, have fun but do keep safe. That photo of yours is amazing - I can't imagine how you reach up and attach yourself to that boulder face when you are under it. We should call you Spiderman!;) :lol:

Have a great day, both of you and cheers to you, too!
02-19-2008, 08:44 PM
islandclimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

March 1 will be great. Quark, which one will we start with? Why don't we designate a two week session for each. Great - yes, post an introduction to the first story prior to March, and we can all get reading and form some ideas to begin with. A little structure never hurt anyone. It will keep us on track, like a rudder to a small boat. Otherwise, we will just be a boat adrift, with no direction.

Well now that is a comfort - only 25-30 ft drop and a tiny pad to cushion your fall and some idiot below who will get crushed if you do fall. Sooo, you still did not answer my question - what does your mom think of this? I would be having a stroke!
I did ask Virgil who the other climber is and he must have forgot to answer me. I will find out for you. He is quite daring, but I think he does climb with ropes, but then he is up much higher than 25-30 ft, or so it appears in his photos. Wow, islandclimber, have fun but do keep safe. That photo of yours is amazing - I can't imagine how you reach up and attach yourself to that boulder face when you are under it. We should call you Spiderman!;) :lol:

Have a great day, both of you and cheers to you, too!

thank you... my mother, well she just tells us (my brother climbs as well) not to tell her too much about... :lol: but we've climbed, with ropes, rock faces up to 3500 ft...

I am actually going climbing(bouldering) in California for a week from the 23rd to the 1st of March... so I will be back just in time... I look forward to discussing chekhov (almost as much as getting into the sun:lol: )

cheers
02-19-2008, 10:46 PM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandclimber

thank you... my mother, well she just tells us (my brother climbs as well) not to tell her too much about... :lol: but we've climbed, with ropes, rock faces up to 3500 ft...

I am actually going climbing(bouldering) in California for a week from the 23rd to the 1st of March... so I will be back just in time... I look forward to discussing chekhov (almost as much as getting into the sun:lol: )

cheers

Well, islandclimber, I can imagine your mother - she must say a lot of prayers. My son mountain bikes and I know I pray a lot and I also ask him not to tell me much about it. He was just out in AZ couple months ago. He had a great time in the SUN! If I were you I would look forward more to the sun than to Chekhov. I love California and know what those boulders look like. Beautiful state. Oh, do be careful and have fun!....(words of advise from a worrisome mom;) ).

So, Quark, we'll be starting March 1 - perfect for me. I will be popping in to post - definitely. I did actually already listen to "Oh! The Public." I realised that when I started to read it tonight online. I found a site with all the Chekhov stories. Yikes, didn't know there were that many really.
02-27-2008, 08:44 PM
Janine

Hello, remember me? I am popping in to ask - will we be starting the discussion on "Oh! the Public" next? Can we begin it on Monday? I posted the story for the D.H.Lawrence thread and that will also begin on Monday. This will give us all a weekend to read the stories. What do you guys think about Chekhov SS starting on Monday with the story I mentioned - Quark, ...Islandclimber, ..whomever...???
02-29-2008, 12:38 AM
Quark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

Hello, remember me? I am popping in to ask - will we be starting the discussion on "Oh! the Public" next? Can we begin it on Monday? I posted the story for the D.H.Lawrence thread and that will also begin on Monday. This will give us all a weekend to read the stories. What do you guys think about Chekhov SS starting on Monday with the story I mentioned - Quark, ...Islandclimber, ..whomever...???

I was actually going to start with the other story called "Misery" first since I think there is probably more to talk about in that one. In a couple of weeks we'll probably switch over and do "Oh! The Public!". I'll post a little introduction to the two stories tomorrow when I get a moment. Hope everyone enjoys the stories.
02-29-2008, 12:50 AM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quark

I was actually going to start with the other story called "Misery" first since I think there is probably more to talk about in that one. In a couple of weeks we'll probably switch over and do "Oh! The Public!". I'll post a little introduction to the two stories tomorrow when I get a moment. Hope everyone enjoys the stories.

Quark, I haven't read it or listened to it yet so that is fine. You sure like to pull fast ones on me though. ;) Can we start it on Monday? Discussing?
That would be great if you would post something about the two stories, but don't give away the endings. Thanks and I will be anxious to read your introduction. Great!:thumbs_up Good to get this thread active again. I posted the new Lawrence story. It is a good one so hope you join in.
02-29-2008, 01:14 AM
Quark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

Quark, I haven't read it or listened to it yet so that is fine. You sure like to pull fast ones on me though. ;) Can we start it on Monday? Discussing?

Monday sounds good. Really, though, you can post whenever you want to. I know we help each other on these SS threads a lot, but that doesn't necessarily mean we have to be totally synchronized. I'll post my intro tomorrow and see what happens; I probably won't comment on the story, itself, until sometime over the weekend.

Speaking of being synchronized, though, sorry about bailing on the ATOTC thread. I just couldn't find time to read to a 350 page novel recently. I will still try to pop in and add to the conversation every once in a while, but I don't really know how much I will be able to do outside of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janine

I posted the new Lawrence story. It is a good one so hope you join in.

I'll check out the Lawrence story, too, over the weekend.
02-29-2008, 02:40 AM
Janine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quark

Monday sounds good. Really, though, you can post whenever you want to. I know we help each other on these SS threads a lot, but that doesn't necessarily mean we have to be totally synchronized. I'll post my intro tomorrow and see what happens; I probably won't comment on the story, itself, until sometime over the weekend.

Quark, that's ok. I just have been sick and I am still feeling tired and weak. I don't think I can find the time to listen to the CD, until the weekend and then if the story is a short one, I will probably run through it online. Is the story on this site, do you know? I will check after I post this.

Quote:

Speaking of being synchronized, though, sorry about bailing on the ATOTC thread. I just couldn't find time to read to a 350 page novel recently. I will still try to pop in and add to the conversation every once in a while, but I don't really know how much I will be able to do outside of that.

That is perfectly ok, too. I had read the book twice before and know the story really well, by now. I also have viewed the miniseries, which is very close to the actual book. I was just reviewing some commentary books on it, but slowed up when I got ill. Now manolia and Alexei are both actively posting in that thread. Alexei came in late, she is highly interested/ So we just wait patiently for each other to post. I only posted twice in there today. The thread has no time limit.

Quote:

I'll check out the Lawrence story, too, over the weekend.

Good, it is not a long one. Since I could not sleep the other night, I stayed up and read a whole lot of the Lawrence short stories. This way, I have reviewed a number of them, as possibilities for the thread. Virgil said he loved this story "The Blind Man" when I mentioned having read it thinking this would be the one I would choose. His :thumbs_up made me go ahead and post this would be the next story. I will try to email some of the people tomorrow to let them know.
02-29-2008, 10:11 PM
Quark

After languishing for a few months, the Chekhov thread is back up. We've got more stories from the succinct Russian realist to read, too. In fact, the two stories for this month are some of his most succinct. Both contain only one scene and span only a few pages. Their brevity isn't their only winning quality, though. More noticeable about the stories is their weirdly affecting quality.

First is "Misery" (online at http://www.online-literature.com/anton_chekhov/1146), a story describing a grief-stricken man searching for sympathy. The main action surrounds a sledge-driver ferrying his passengers around Petersburg, but the byplay between Iona, the driver, and his customers reveals the misery which the story is named after. It should be a good read. All the usual Chekhov tricks are there: symbolism, wit, all that. Written in 1886, the story is one of the earlier ones so we'll see some of the same themes we've talked about earlier--only in embryo form here. And, one last thing, it's compact. That's why I thought we could try to do two stories in one month. Also, I wanted to do another because I didn't want to end on the downer that this story has.

The second story is "Oh! The Public!" (http://www.online-literature.com/anton_chekhov/1140). A more light-hearted one, but still not too optimistic (it's hard to find Chekhov stories that are). "Oh! The Public!" is about a ticket collector who just can't win. Perhaps he's well-meaning, but his attempts to help himself and those around him always seem to backfire. Frustration ensues, and we're left to wonder what went wrong and why. If the first story centers around one of Chekhov's usual victims, this one focuses on one of his typical fools. Hopefully this one gets some laughs as well as tears.

These should be two good stories, and I hope people get a chance to post a comment or two. I'll probably start posting chunks of the story on the thread Sunday after I post on the Lawrence discussion.
02-29-2008, 11:14 PM
Janine

Quark, *clap clap* that was really good. Excellent introduction! Thanks for posting all of this. I am looking forward to the two stories and reviving this great thread come Monday.

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