makes me want to read a book
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makes me want to read a book
I think this is what Tolkien was trying to get across in his books.Quote:
Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
Industrial Society is speeding up the demise of ecosystems by providing jobs to all - education to all.
After Industrial Revolution work turned into extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.
Most of the people living in cities are engaged in the destructive cycle of
production of consumer goods, selling of consumer goods, buying of
consumer goods.This planet is very small - just 40,000 km in
circumference. Today 50% of world population is living in cities - and
this percentage is increasing day by day.
Provide jobs to all?
Provide education to all? - oh yes, provide jobs/education to all and
very soon the human species will go out of existence.
The entire education system is promoting consumerism, extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.
People who are getting education in technology/ engineering.... are engaged in production of consumer goods.
People who are getting education in the fields of business, finance, MBA....are engaged in selling of consumer goods.
Most of the people getting education in Arts subjects are also engaged in
selling of consumer goods and services - sales and marketing jobs.
If we destroy ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will last longer. If we destroy ecosystems for consumer goods in addition to food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will finish much sooner.
Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things [animals, trees, air, water,land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].
By providing jobs to all - education to all, Industrial Society is destroying the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years.
Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.
What would happen to your home if 1000 people entered and started doing work continuously - 24 X 7 - picking up things already lying in the house, breaking them up and making new things out of them without stopping?
A similar thing is happening to the planet - 6.8 billion people
continuously engaging in work - destroying the ecosystems moment by
moment.
Man started destroying "extra" after Industrial Revolution. This "extra"
destruction has risen exponentially in the last 50 years.
Work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work. People who are working to provide food, clothing, shelter and healthcare are doing work - rest of the population is engaged in overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.
Ecosystems are not consumer goods that can be manufactured / created by MultiNational Corporations. Who can undo the damage that has been done to ecosystems by billions of people over a period of 200 - 250 years?
Industrial Society has killed billions of acres of fertile soil by covering it with cement and concrete.This is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.We
have got a very small planet. On this small planet two-thirds of
surface area is water. Only one-third is land - and this includes vast
areas of land that are not fertile - deserts, rocky
mountains, ice/ glaciers. There is very little surface area on
earth which is fertile. It is this fertile soil that has produced food
for millions of species that have lived on land for millions of years. Killing billions of acres of fertile soil is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.The punishment is coming - very soon - punishment of the highest degree - punishment raised to the power of infinity.
"Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Green Development".
These are contradictory terms – these are oxymorons.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.
Industry produces three kinds of waste - solid, liquid and gaseous.
There are only three places on earth where this waste can go - air, water, land.
There is no fourth place on earth where Industrial waste can go.
Industrial Society has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, chemical waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste.........
This waste has killed, polluted and poisoned rivers, lakes, oceans, underground water, the soil/ land, the air/ sky.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.
We have created a society that rapes, plunders and exploits "Mother Earth" 365 days of the year - and then celebrates Earth Day.
When someone destroys the home of a human being it is considered a crime and the accused is sent to prison.
When the human species collectively destroys the homes [ecosystems] of millions of other species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.
The police, the law, the judiciary are trying to catch a few criminals - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.
Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.
What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we com...pare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.
The two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism.
Science, Technology and Industrialization are responsible for both these problems. World population was less than 1 billion in the year 1800. Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of "Industrial Agriculture" the feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control. If Industrial Revolution had not happened, environmental destruction due to production of consumer goods would not exist. In the absence of Science, Technology and "Industrial Revolution" we would not be facing the two problems that have caused destruction of ecosystems - overpopulation and overconsumerism.
If "Industrial Revolution" had not happened what would be the scenario today?
The feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control.
Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.
Maybe I would'nt be existing today - and billions of others may not have existed - but millions/ billions of humans would exist [just like they existed before Industrialization]
Most ecosystems would be hundreds of times/ thousands of times in better shape than today.
Millions of other species that have been decimated by Industrial Society would be existing in very healthy numbers - their population levels thousands of times greater than what they are now.
Providing food, clothing, shelter and healthcare is good. But did "Industrial Society" stop at that?
Do we have an Industrial Society that only provides food, clothing, shelter and healthcare to people?
No - the jokers tried to sell hundreds of consumer goods to all citizens of Industrial Society. They tried to make all people consumerists.
Industrial Society started destroying ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to destroying them for food, clothing and shelter.
You cannot do this on a small planet that is just 40,000 km in circumference. If you live this way you end up destroying all ecosystems - you end up decimating all other species - you end up destroying animals, trees, air, water and land - the very things that created and sustained all life on earth.
The earth is sick.
Ecosystems are dying.
Animals, trees, air, water and land are dying.
People say - why bother, it was meant to happen this way, nature will take care of itself.
When people fall sick - they rush to the doctor to save themselves.
When people fall sick - they rush to the hospital to save themselves.
Insane, abnormal, selfish, criminal human species.
Almost every country has been claiming its green cover is increasing.
How can this ever be true?
A fully grown tree is cut down in seconds/ minutes.
It takes 20 years for a tree to grow fully.
The rate of destruction of fully grown trees is hundreds of thousands
of times greater than the rate of replacement of fully grown trees.
And only a small percentage of trees that are planted survive to grow into healthy adult trees.
And even if you manage to replace trees how are you going to replace
the population of millions of species of animals, birds and insects
that lived in the forest and died when the forest was cut down.
Secondly where are you planting new trees? You can plant new trees on forest land only if forest land remains forest land.
But this is not the case.
We have got a very small planet whose circumference is just 40,000 km.
On this small planet two-thirds of surface area is water. Included in
the remaining land area are deserts, rocky mountains and glaciers which
do not support vegetation.
If the soil is fertile and gets rain it will grow forests, trees,
plants, vegetation by itself. This is how nature grew all the forests
in this world.
Before the arrival of man all the land that could grow forests had forests on it.
Then the genius human species arrived on the scene.
First he cut down forests for fire, then he cut down forests for
agriculture and villages. After Industrial Revolution forests were cut
down for towns and cities, for setting up industries/ factories, for
mining and extraction of raw material/minerals, for railways, for road
network.
So once the forest is cut down the land is taken up for agriculture,
for cattle grazing, for industry, for towns and cities, for rail and
road network.
So where are the new trees being planted? Where are they growing up?
How can green cover ever increase?
Lies, lies, lies .........blatant lies.
The rate of destruction of forests has risen exponentially after Industrial Revolution.
One can know the truth by looking at the satellite pictures of forests - before and after. One can compare the pictures taken 30 years ago with those taken this year.
Why did God create the insane human species that is ready to do
everything for the wrong cause and nothing for the right cause – a
species which is willing to do everything to destroy the ecosystems and
nothing to save the ecosystems.
Man is ready to kill and get killed for religion, for country, for honour, for power, for money and fame - But not for environment.
Millions have been killed over trivial issues and causes.
Millions have died for trivial issues and causes.
How many people have died for environment? How many people have died for
the most important / precious things on earth – animals, trees, air,
water and land – the very things that created and sustained all life on
earth.
Most of the ecosystems are already gone. The
little that remains is dying moment by moment. The situation is
extremely critical but the human response is limited to the same old
insanity – bring this technology, bring that technology - bring this technology, bring that technology.
Environmentalism has failed.
Environmentalism never existed.
It was Pseudo-Environmentalism all the way.
When 3000 people died in World Trade Center collapse the west was outraged - Killers, Murderers, Terrorists - they cried out. America vowed to smoke out the culprits - attacked Afghanistan, flattened the country and killed hundreds of thousands of people [directly or indirectly].
When American company "Union Carbide"... killed 20,000 people in Bhopal, India the same desire for justice was not shown by the west.
Why? - Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?
There are hundreds of insecticides/ pesticides that are banned in western countries but the west is selling millions of tonnes of these chemicals in asia - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].
Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?
The west is shipping millions of tonnes of toxic , hazardous waste to asian countries for recycling - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].
Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?
The Military Industrial Complex has killed millions of people in wars. No terrorist organization has killed that many people.
Industry kills - Industry kills humans, Industry kills animals, Industry kills trees, Industry kills air, Industry kills water, Industry kills land.
Industry is the killer - Industry is the murderer - Industry is the
terrorist.
Destruction of ecosystems will soon lead to collapse of Industrial Society.
Humans have decimated millions of other species - very soon it will be the turn of Humans to get decimated.
But even decimation of humans will not save ecosystems - only a total wipe-out of humans will save ecosystems.
If a few million humans survive they will again try to build another Industrial Society because they have seen such a society.
Only human extinction will work.
When the human species appears again there must be no memory of Industrialization and consumerism left in the human brain.
It would be best if the human species never ever appears on the planet again.
This planet can only sustain societies that produce their own food.
This planet cannot sustain societies that do not produce their own food.
Everyone in this world is eating food.
But everyone in this world is not producing food.
Today 50% of world population is living in cities. This population is not producing food. A society that does not produce its own food creates unnecessary work to keep itself occupied. People would go crazy if this unnecessary work is not created. A city-based/ non-farming society is mostly engaged in production and selling of consumer goods and services. Work turns into over-work, extra work, destructive work.
When society produces its own food it destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter.
When society does not produce its own food it destroys ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing, shelter.
Cities existed before Industrial Revolution but their destructive impact was very little because they were not producing consumer goods that are being made today.
We can never save environment if we are destroying extra - We can never save environment if we destroy it for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
It is impossible to save environment as long as cities exist.
It is impossible to save environment if we have societies that do not produce their own food.
Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only due to modern technology/ machines.
In the absence of modern technology/ machines it would be impossible for man to destroy all ecosystems.
If modern technology/ machines had not come into existence man would
have probably destroyed some ecosystems on land [forests] - and that
too at a much slower rate than that of the present Industrial Society.
It would have been impossible for man to destroy ecosystems in the sea/ oceans.
It would have been impossible for man to carry out largescale mining
activity and destroy ecosystems on the surface and deep inside the
earth.
It would have been impossible for man to poison the earth with thousands of toxic chemicals.
It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
solid, liquid and gaseous waste that has poisoned the air, water and
land - the entire planet.
It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
metal waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste...... that has
poisoned the entire planet.
The Machine has killed all ecosystems.
It is impossible to save the remaining ecosystems as long as the machine exists.
The Machine will devour everything that remains on earth.
Machine is the killer.
Kill the machine.
The shameless, insane, abnormal and criminal human species
gets alarmed only when other species are about to go extinct – not before. And
even this late concern is fake - how could it ever be real.
The crime happens much before extinction of species. The tragedy happens much
before extinction of species.
This planet was made for millions of species - not for man alone.
The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier than extinction when man decimated all
other species.
The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier when the population of each species
dropped from millions to thousands and hundreds.
How would humans feel if the roles were reversed and the following happened.
All the animals of the world join hands to decimate the human species.
Humans are outraged , they cry out - killers, murderers, criminals, terrorists.
The animals say - "what are you complaining about?".
We are so compassionate - we did'nt kill all of you.
You should be grateful that we did'nt make you extinct.
There are 10 of you still alive on every continent.
Jobs or Environment?
Economy or Environment?
These are the questions that are being asked today.
This is insanity raised to the power of infinity.
Do we need to discuss, debate and argue for 100 years to know the answer?
Do we need to do research for 100 years to know the answer?
What would be the response of this genius society if professional killers said - you should not stop us from killing people - if you do that you are taking away our jobs.
Jobs are killing ecosystems, work is killing ecosystems, economy is killing ecosystems - work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, extra work, destructive work.
Industrial Society is destroying necessary things [animals, trees, air, water, land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].
Without environment humans will not even exist.
Without environment millions of other species will not exist.
We are alive because of nature - we owe our very existence to nature.
But this insane, abnormal and criminal "Industrial Society" continues to choose jobs instead of environment - economy instead of environment.
Insanity raised to the power of infinity.
Out of millions of species the human species is the only species which is insane enough to believe that food comes from money.
Millions of other species have lived on earth for millions of years. Their food did not come from money.
Food does not come from money - food comes from nature - food grows because of nature - food exists because of fertile soil, water, air, sunlight.......
Industrial Society has killed, polluted, poisoned the very things that produce food.
You can load trillions of dollars into a rocket and send it to the moon - you will not be able to buy a single grain of food over there.
Money is paper, money is plastic - money is not food.
Chief Seattle of the Indian Tribe had warned :
"only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you realize that you cannot eat money"
When is this insane society going to understand that it is not just Industrial accidents that destroy ecosystems - all Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.
The Bhopal gas tragedy killed 20,000 people, crippled half a million people for life, killed thousands of animals and birds, killed/ polluted/ poisoned... the air, water and soil.
Union Carbide was making pesticides/ insecticides in its plant. These carcinogenic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of people all over the world every year - directly or indirectly. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning millions of acres of soil every year, These toxic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of animals and birds every year. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning the underground and above-ground water sources. These toxic insecticides and pesticides have poisoned the entire food chain leading to multiple organ failure, genetic defects, birth defects.
If the Bhopal Gas Tragedy had not happened the toxic insecticides and pesticides produced by Union Carbide would have still led to destruction of ecosystems, killing of humans, animals, birds, air, water and soil.
Recently there was an oil spill in the sea in US. The oil is killing marine life.
Oil kills ecosystems when it spills into the sea.
Oil kills ecosystems even when it does'nt spill into the sea.
If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to power ships that move around oceans - catching fish, killing marine life, torturing marine life moment by moment. At any given time there are 50,000 ships moving in the oceans.
If the oil had not spilled it would have been used to run millions of cars, other vehicles, aeroplanes - whose exhausts would release millions of tonnes of toxic gases into the atmosphere. That is not all - ecosystems are killed to manufacture millions of cars, trucks, ships and aeroplanes that run on oil.
If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to run millions of industries and factories - all of which kill ecosystems - animals, trees, air, water, land.
When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.
It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.
Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.
Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.
Industries burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.
Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.
When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.
When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.
Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.
Industrial Society has generated billions of tonnes of hazardous solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic
waste, eWaste, chemical waste, nuclear waste.
When an Industrial accident happens the focus of entire world shifts to it.
All environmentalists are outraged.
As if the environment was in good shape before the accident and will be in good shape after the accident.
The problem is not Industrial accident -the problem is not any particular Industrial accident - the problem is Industry itself.
Industrial accidents will continue to happen as long as Industry exists.
They will only get bigger and bigger.
Bigger the Industry bigger the Industrial accident.
Industry kills ecosystems when there is an Industrial accident.
Industry kills ecosystems even when there is no Industrial accident.
All Industrial activity is an accident.
All Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.
All Industrial activity kills animals, trees, air, water, land.
All Industrial activity leads to environmental crisis, environmental disaster, environmental catastrophe.
It is impossible to save ecosystems as long as industry exists.
Technology has destroyed ecosystems.
But the Techno-Worshippers of this insane Industrial Society want still more technology, new technology, better technology, advanced technology - they claim that technology will save the ecosystems.
Two thousand years ago the air was clean - it was not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial gases and particulate matter.
Which technology made the air clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago the rivers and oceans were clean - they were not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial waste.
Which technology made the water clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago the planet was full of forests - millions of species thrived - their population was hundreds and thousands of times greater than what it is now.
Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago the oceans were full of fish and other marine species.
Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste did not exist on this planet.
Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic waste, chemical waste, eWaste, nuclear waste did not exist on this planet.
Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Technology does not save ecosystems - it is the absence of technology that saves ecosystems.
Science, technology and industrialization lead to over-exploitation of ecosystems.
Technology is not the saviour of ecosystems - technology is the destroyer of ecosystems.
sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Come again?
I want to present per-industrial human society since some of the things go unspoken or prose becomes not enough replete with meaning:
Imagine we live in our primitive character
You have no cloth on your body or on your children's
You have no storage
The urge that arise currently surges you to look for commodities
Be it food, water or sex
Sin is undefined
God is not invented yet
Family is not integrated
Everything is possible
Yet love is as ancient as life
Urge is a tremor that arose with the flow of water
There were the satisfier and the satisfied
Called male and female in your modern dictionary
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBastable
For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?
This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.
Poison kills people.....it does'nt matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement And Concrete.
Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years[compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......And even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Your article is full of misinformation. Maybe I should just go as far as saying that it is Deceitful Propaganda. Bluntly saying...LIES.Quote:
Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
Actually his main premise is correct. Industrialization destroys ecosystems. It won't be long before the world's fish stocks reach a state of collapse. I drive 20 minutes in any direction out of town and the whole vast area looks like the scene of an asteroid collision. Much of Northern Alberta looks like the surface of the moon, like Mordor in Lord of the Rings, and by the time the Canadian tar-sands are fully developed the affected area will be larger than the state of Florida. Atlantic cod has been fished out, a once seemingly infinite resource. The destruction of the Amazon has become trite to mention but the devastation there is great and ghastly. The examples go endlessly on.Quote:
Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC
Thanks for your views Darcy88.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88
There is only one cause of environmental destruction......Industrialization.
Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are only consequences/ by-products of Industrialization.
Overconsumerism is quite obviously a consequence of Industrialization..... Industrial consumer goods and services would not exist without Industrial Activity.
Overpopulation is also a by-product of Industrialization. The entire world was overbreeding until the middle years of 20th century.....even Western Countries had 5 - 12 children per family[and even more].....and yet population of the world remained low before industrialization because of high death rate, lower life span and shortage of food and water. It was only 1 billion in 1800 AD. India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago, since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions. What was the population of Europe/ America/ West 2000 years ago????......Was it comparable to eastern population of India and China????
Industrialization is the cause of overpopulation and overconsumerism.
Moreover, Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.
Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.
When we talk of population we should take into account population of all animal species, not just human population.
Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species. The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.
Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species.....but there was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....the combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.
The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.
If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.
The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????
What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is Industrialization......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion today ........In the absence of Industrialization world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today.
It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.......The combined population of millions of animal species was much greater than present human population.......and yet they did not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed environment only for Food.......not for Thousands of Consumer Goods.
The cause of Environmental Destruction is Industrialization / Consumerism.........Not population / overpopulation.
A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would not destroy environment [And a Hunter_Gatherer Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]
An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would cause much lesser environmental destruction than an Industrial Society of 7 billion [And an Agrarian Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]
Industrialization is the cause of Human Overpopulation and Overconsumerism
It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.
Height of Insanity!
Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Overpopulation is not the result only of industrialization but of advances in medicine and sanitation too.
I'm with you on the call for a new primitivism, but you must keep in mind that you can trace the cause of our civilization's ills a step further beyond industrialization. The true culprit is humanity itself, human nature, our ever unsatiated appetite which was worsened though not born with the advent of industrialization.
Haha, it does look like Mordor:Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88
http://s.ngm.com/2009/03/canadian-oi...-sands-615.jpg
And it stretches for miiiiiles:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Sands_map.png
That's money they're pulling out of the ground, though. If there were ever to be an environmental law written to shut down oil sands operations, my kinsmen would likely drink themselves to death just like last time when the coal mines shut down.
My friend Les just said this a second ago so I'm putting it here:
Then again, we have a personal interest in the oil sands.Quote:
Fun fact: did you know the oil sands employs more people and has 'fewer Co2 emmisions' than the Ontario auto making plants? But the entire worldwide oil industry is a gross immoral thing. Fighting the oil demands would be the way to go, don't just fall into the trendy scapegoating of the oilsands while still driving everywhere despite the fact your city has a descent public transportation system. Also, the alternative for oil right now is the middle east, mainly saudi arabia which is an *** backwards country under a monarchy that still holds public executions.
#1 and #2 are impossible to discuss. I have seldom seen more insanity in a single place. Good posts about madness.
If all the money that went into oil were suddenly spent on the development of alternative energy sources there'd be no problem. I understand the whole focus on jobs, after all, one's family must eat, but if you look at what every credible scientist says is coming, the concern for jobs really becomes insignificant. Its way too politicized to get into here, but some of the predictions are downright apocalyptic. The Pentagon says the environment will become the single greatest threat to America's national security. That's the freaking Pentagon!Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf
On aesthetic reasons alone I'd scale the oil-sands back. And its not just Alberta that's sold its soul. British Columbia is the natural gas fracking leader of the world.
That's unrealistic though. I don't think there will be much of a change until there are some more urgent negative effects felt, and I think that the chances run high that we'll run out of oil before the environment takes too hard a hit (but that will still put humans at risk if we haven't found an alternative source of energy by then). Envorinmental doomsday predictions have really started to seem somewhat misguided to me, especially since I started seriously studying ecology. People often think that nature is a weak system that needs human protection, but that's not true. It's only our own survival and progress that would realistically justify searching for more efficient energy sources, and in that sense it is justified. We as a species would have a lot more time, energy and resources to accomplish great things if we were able to easily and safely pull usable energy from the air, as Tesla proposed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88
In that sense, Tesla is outdated. But he did leave us the frequency transformers and some other great stuf. Tesla was one of the greatest scientists that ever lived.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf
During the WW Marconi had the contracts and the ability to take over Tesla's work and the fascistic Italians to later (WWII) claim discoveries they never made.
We have enough natural gas underground to keep us going for a very long time, America included. A 3 degree rise in overall world temperature is all that's needed for major changes to take place and our reaching that mark is all but inevitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf
Your post brings to mind a classic bit by Carlin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNobFi3Q-9Y
I'm not worried about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88;1117426A
Haha, I've never seen that before. I usually try to avoid the Carlin hype, I'm more of a Stanhope kind of person, but he really did have a great mind. He really knew his sh*t, I like this version (it was in the "related videos" column) where he says that the earth is a self-regulating system and describes the conditions under which life was previously extinguished and then re-built.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88;1117426A
Watching those videos reminded me of how much people who make reference to "saving the planet" or who call themselves "green" are really starting to piss me off, I was drowned in that whole culture in university (and I would call it a culture - it really seems more about people defining themselves, and finding other people to identify with, than actual progression). Someone could have objectively described me as an "environmentalist" when I was 16-19ish, but now it just seems like one big ineffectual global-wide self satisfied circle jerk, with just a dash of fear mongering for profit. Humans are just a species, our job is just to exist in this world and continue to exist. There are feedback loops in nature which guarantee that our own ability to survive and reduce our own suffering means that we must live in harmony with our environment, and if we don't then we die and nature as a system continues.
"If nature were but to shrug, or to raise an eyebrow, then we should all be gone."
-Alan Moore
Saving ourselves is a worthy enough motivation without both flattering and punishing ourselves by imagining that we not only can, but also have a responsibility to, save every other species (well, the cute ones at least), Humans have a lot of potential and could really go far.
Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed by population that does not produce food.
This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food......It cannot sustain a society where 50% of world population produces food for 100% of population .......and the remaining 50% is engaged in production and marketing of Consumer Goods and Services.
In Industrial Society a fraction of population produces Food for entire population......The rest of the population [which means most of the people living in Cities and Urban Areas] creates unnecessary work to keep itself occupied.....which leads to Extra destruction of environment......which makes sustainability an impossibility.
One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.
Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Environment in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.
Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.
Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums, Golf Courses and other sports facilities.
Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.
Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.
Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.
Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.
We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.
Environment has been destroyed by Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.
Industrial Activity has destroyed Forests, Rivers and Oceans....It has produced Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste......It has killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement and concrete.
Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years.
Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods and Services must stop immediately.........Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.
sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Much of this reminds me of what the Zeitgeist movies were saying, and the various ideas that the Venus Project has been volleying, about a resource-based economy, or trying to make our economy sustainable, and choosing better solutions for the environment.
When we have geothermal, solar, wind and tidal power, and we're simply not utilizing it because it's not as profitable as oil, we have a problem. Industry was essential to progress, but there's a lot of rumours about peak oil, and the eventual and inevitable decline of oil.
Everything's about production. The onwards goal of : Go-Go-Going. But, here's the catch.. They have to continue making goods, with the cheapest available materials, which makes the goods obsolete. They're simply not made to last, or to be good quality. You can't trust skin cream because it's actually designed to make you think you've got softer skin, drying it out in the process, making it essential to buy more. It's all about buying, and if we're not buying and selling, the economy is not functioning properly. This continual economic growth is not something that we can keep up with for an infinite amount of time.
Basically, our system is broken and people are ignoring it, sitting pretty watching television and going to 8-hour-a-day jobs they hate, which cause them to be antipathic to any issues that the world might have.
The Venus Project has a plan, whereas the Zeitgeist movement is trying to get people together to find various plans, or solutions.
But, what everyone seems to agree with is that the system's not going to change until either it's just too late, or it's a hair's breadth away from being too late.
The best thing to do to take action as an individual, I think, is possibly the transitional towns and cities that have begun circulating their own currency, which doesn't effect the global economy. In addition, most goods then are bought locally, and there is less issue with environmental problems.
BookBeauty,
I want to thank you for your post in which you have expressed concern about environmental destruction and consumerism......and for giving information about the Zeitgeist movement and Venus Project. I have made some more additions to my article which I am posting here.
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Industrial Society is a lunatic society that is trying to save environment not by stopping Industrial Activity but by changing the technology.
Bring this technology, Bring that technology..........Bring this technology, Bring that technology.
A man is shooting someone with a gun........Some people are trying to save the victim.......They plead with the man asking him to save the victim by stopping the shooting.
The man says.....Don't worry......I will save him by changing technology......He replaces the old gun with a new one ........And continues to shoot.
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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ......
Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.
Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.
Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.
Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.
Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.
The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.
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There is only one cause of environmental destruction.......Industrialization.
Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.......The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism.
A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food.
An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial Society of 7 billion has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after industrialization because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion.
An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion.
World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.
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For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?
This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.
Poison kills people.....it doesn't matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It doesn't matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It doesn't matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems......Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.
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Discussion cannot save environment........Money cannot save environment......Technology cannot save environment......Environmental Organizations cannot save environment.......Activism cannot save environment.
Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion......They did not even have a language for discussing environmental issues.
Animal species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment with money ........They had no money.
Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with modern technology........They had no modern technology......It was absence of modern technology that saved environment in pre-industrial societies........Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only because of Industrial Machines.
Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with the help of Environmental Organizations or Activism........They had no environmental organizations.
Animal Species did not destroy environment for millions of years.......Hunter Gatherer Society destroyed very little environment during a million years of existence......Agrarian Society destroyed very little environment [compared to Industrial Society] over a period of 10,000 years.
There is only one way to save environment.......Destroy less......Minimize the list of things that are destroying environment.
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Promoters of Growth rate, Economy Rate and GDP are the biggest terrorists on earth.......Millions of times bigger terrorists than Taliban and Al Qaeda.
Our society has placed a bounty of millions of dollars on the heads of Taliban and Al Qaeda
No bounty on the heads of people who promoted Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth???
It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that produced Trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste that has contaminated and poisoned the entire planet......It was Industrial Society.
It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated millions of animal and plant species......It was Industrial Society.
It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement, concrete and asphalt......It was Industrial Society.
It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated fish in the oceans......It was Industrial Fishing.
It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed millions of people in wars.......It was Military Industrial Complex.
Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
For millions of years before industrialization the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.......Animals destroyed environment for food......Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment for food......Agrarian Society destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.
Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction.
"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "Crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".
Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate & GDP are the biggest Killers, Murderers & Terrorists on earth.
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Environment has been destroyed by Cities.......Environment has been destroyed by Urban Dwellers.........City People are doing extra work which has led to exponential "extra destruction of environment".......... Urban Dwellers are the destroyers of Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere.
For millions of years "searching for food" / “producing food” were the primary activities of animal species, hunter_gatherer society and agrarian society.........and that is why they sustained for millions of years because they destroyed very little environment compared to Industrial Society.......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.
In Industrial Society 50% of world population is growing food for 100% of population and the remaining 50% living in cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of "thousands of consumer goods and services".
It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population exists in this world.
It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.
It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is promoting Industrial Activity.
Industrial Activity is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.
Consumerism is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.
Destruction of environment is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.
Most of the people who do not produce food are engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.
Most of the urban population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.
In America 90 - 95% of population is urban......In Europe 80 – 90% of population is urban......this is why consumerism is so rampant in US and West.
World wide the percentage of urban population is about 50%.......If the entire world is made communist or socialist it is not going to stop/ reduce consumerism as long as the percentage of urban population remains the same.
As long as Urban Population exists all Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand........ Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling Industry, Oil Refining Industry, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.....all these Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand.
This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.
This planet cannot sustain Urban population.
Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed primarily by population that does not produce food.
This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food.
One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.
Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it has destroyed environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter".
The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.
Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.
Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums.
Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.
Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.
Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.
Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.
Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.
A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.
If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.
At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.
We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.
We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
I often wondered who was the freak advising Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban.
I also used to often wonder who was missing from the group of lunatics that advised George Bush and "Coalition of the Willing".Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
I think it was you all the way. They figured out your insane proposals and idiotic doings.Quote:
Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
You are wrong genius.
I advised the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
You advised George Bush and "Coalition of the Willing".
I am glad I did not advise George Bush and Company.......The "Coalition of the Stupid".
You'll submit to freedom, or evaporate, vice squad. Case closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
I don't think this is true. Hunter gatherers were nomads because they ate the food in one area and had to move to the next area with a stock of ready food. How would 7 billion hunter gatherers co-ordinate that?Quote:
Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
This is very short sighted. There is a lot of movement of goods and services in and between countries, which involves transport, which requires fuel...etcQuote:
Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
We can't go back to the model you suggest - there are too many people for that.
There are other things thaty can be done though - remove the need, and cultural pressure for a large family, for example. Your country could do something about that.
The Pope must not maintain a prohibition of contraception - though it looks as though their position is softening.
Technology has brought us to this place - in industry and agriculture, and more work needs to be done on efficient food production.
Unstable governments need a political settlement in order to develop and eventually contribute.
Alternative energy needs to be developed and promoted.
Regression won't work.
Industrial Society blaming overpopulation for global crisis is like America blaming Taliban and Al Qaeda for violence and terrorism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulclem
Taliban and Al Qaeda were creations of America / West which provided weapons and money to them for years and years when they were fighting against Russia.
Overpopulation is a creation of industrialization........World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.
I hate industrialization in fact though I never can be out of the fetters of industrialization. The clothes I wear, the kind of foods, drink I take, the transportation- means I use to travel from place, the books I love to read, the movies I choose to see, the songs I listen every day and the Internet that has enabled me to talk to you across a thousand miles have to do with industrialization. I will be phony if I make the maximum of it and abhor it blatantly. The comforts of my home, the gadgets I bedeck my house with the best obtainable furnishings has to do with somebody's industry o invention. I take everything for granted as if I have claim over them by birth, inherently, naturally the way I feel I must have the freedom to breathe in air ( alas today we have no freedom to breathe in fresh air) but there are so many individuals, institutions, dedicated scientists and technologists contributing to make available all we easily are enjoying in this world.
Let us think coolly for a while. We have been too greedy; We have emptied the seas of their sea animals, the planet of their rare species, the air of some very beautiful aerial beings, birds and carbonized the earth's surface. Deforestation is on the go destroying millions of natural habitations. Our urbanization is an anti-natural campaign leading to desertification of the earth's surface. Even our bucolic communities are engaged in clearing forests, destroying floras and faunas for their settlements.
In fact we are disfiguring the Mother Earth shamelessly, and we are ruining her and in the end we will be ruining ourselves when we will have only stretches of tarred roads full of ashes behind and ahead of us with few lives there. We are greedy beings, and our world of consumptions is ugly and we are like deadly dragons that swallow up everything that comes its way and …..
……soon there will be so many black holes … and we will be swallowed…by our beloved industries
I didn't say that industrial society is blaming overpopulation. It is just a fact that we have these two together. You are correct in saying that industrialisation has increased world population by virtue of better conditions, medicine, agriculture etc. It is what we have to deal with now. 6 billion people are not going to disappear. They have to be accommodated.Quote:
Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
I don't think the solution lies in the past, as that time dealt with the population as it is. We have to use our improving tech to improve the situation.
So India has 1 billion people contributing to the world population, and is rapidly becoming industrialised. Is it that you see this as a bad thing in your own country and assume that it is the same everywhere else? Also, what would you suggest India do about your population growth? I'm not criticising your country. I'd like to hear your ideas.
The entire world has been making efforts to control / check population growth for the last 30 - 40 years........these efforts should / will continue in future.......so there is no problem with population.
The two things that have destroyed environment are overconsumerism and overpopulation [both of which are by-products of industrialization].
This world has been trying to control population while increasing consumerism exponentially.......this is very ridiculous.
Both have to be controlled.
Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.
The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.
This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity
One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.
Height of Insanity and Abnormality.
People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.
Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.
What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.
It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.
This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.
All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.
People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.
It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.
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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..
Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.
Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.
Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.
Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.
Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.
The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.
Well, be prepared. It's going to get better with your insanity evaporating. Watch it if you please.Quote:
Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
The problem is politics. Governments are not swift enough to adopt green measures and promote sustainable living enough - but it is beginning. Your post is apocalyptic and retrograde. I've no idea what you think would happen to all the people who are sustained by modern processes and economies. We now need these systems to sustain our populations. What is certain is that without a drastic reduction in the population, a return to the agricultural past will not happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
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When there was still time to save environment a whole century was wasted in the futile debate over Capitalism, Socialism and Communism.
Trying to save environment after 250 years of relentless Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.
Industrial Activity destroys environment.....Where there is Industrial Activity there is environmental destruction.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism doesn't matter at all.
Monsanto is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.
Nuclear Power Plants are not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.
Mining Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.
Logging Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.
Construction Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.
Transportation Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.
Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Tar Sands and Hydraulic Fracking are not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.
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This planet cannot sustain an Industrial / Urban Society......The problem is not Capitalism, The problem is Industrialization / Urbanization.......The solution is not Communism or Socialism, The solution is Non-Industrial / Non-Urban Society.
Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter at all........What matters is percentage of Urban Population......A Socialist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population...... A Communist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population.
Urban Population is responsible for consumerism.......Urban Population does not produce Food.....It produces thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.
Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.
Saving environment in Industrial Society is an impossibility......No Industrial Society can save environment.......Communist or Socialist Industrial Societies cannot be less destructive than Capitalist Industrial Societies.
There cannot be any sustainable Industrial Society........The fault does not lie in Capitalism.....The fault lies in Industrialization.....All Industrial Societies are the same.....All Industrial Societies are equally harmful, destructive and evil.
Destruction of environment is guaranteed in Industrial Society......The debate over Capitalism, Communism and Socialism in the context of Environmental Crisis is meaningless and absurd.
Industrialization , Urbanization and Consumerism go hand in hand......They happen together.
Today 50% of world population is Urban, living in cities...... 50% of world population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population living in Cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services........Urban population is not producing food, it is producing consumer goods and services.......Even if the entire world is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to bring about any change in consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population will remain the same and it will continue producing and marketing thousands of consumer goods and services.
In America 90 - 95% of population is Urban......That is why consumerism is so rampant in the US......Even if America is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to reduce consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population would still remain the same.
In Europe 80 - 90% of population is Urban.
In China and India consumerism has risen exponentially with the increase in percentage of Urban Population.
Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter.......What matters is Industrialization and Urbanization which results in Consumerism.
This planet cannot sustain Industrial Urban Population.......This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.
This planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society where almost the entire population is engaged in "searching for food" / producing food......This planet cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.
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A person is being shot 100 times......Some people are supposed to save the victim.....They do nothing till 99 bullets have hit the victim.....When the last bullet is about to be fired they rush to save the victim, who is already dead by then.
Industrial Activity has been destroying Biodiversity and Ecosystems for 250 years.....Industrial Society should not have been started in the first place.....Once it came into existence its harmful impact on environment should have alerted people and they should have tried to stop Industrial Activity in the early stages.....If people had tried to stop Industrial Activity 50 years or even 100 years after it began, environment could have been saved because most of the environmental destruction has taken place in the last 50 - 100 years when the rate of Industrialization and Consumerism rose exponentially.....Trying to save environment after 250 years of Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.
More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.
Most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems have already been destroyed.
Species are not lost when they become extinct....Species are lost when they get decimated....Species were lost when their populations dropped from billions and millions before industrialization to thousands and hundreds after industrialization.
There are(were) millions of species in this world....Most of them have already been decimated because Industrial Activity has destroyed most of the forests....Millions of Plant and Animal species have been decimated by Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks, Ports and Airports..
If we calculate the decline in populations of millions of species after industrialization the combined loss will come to more than 99.9%.
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Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land have been polluted, poisoned and killed by trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The entire planet has become a Toxic Dump.....All Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste that has been produced by Industrial Society in 250 years after Industrial Revolution has accumulated on earth....It has not gone out of earth.
Oceans have turned acidic and warmer and there are oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans....Fish in the oceans have been decimated by Industrial Fishing.
Billions of acres of fertile soil that was the source of food to millions of species has been killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.
More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.
A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.
After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not exist...It is only a matter of a few years now.
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When a mass shooter kills 20 American kids the world is outraged.
When millions of baby seals are clubbed to death the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills billions of animals in Slaughter Houses the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills billions of wild animals by destroying forests with Industrial Activity the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land with billions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills billions of acres of fertile soil that provides food to millions of species with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills ecosystems that are home to millions of species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.
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Who is not a killer in Industrial Society?????
Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.
Industrial Society has killed billions of farm animals in Slaughter Houses and billions of wild animals in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of animals.
Industrial Society has killed billions of Trees in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of Trees.
Industrial Activity has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous Industrial Waste.....This waste has polluted and poisoned air, water and soil....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita waste which is a measure of per capita killing of air, water and soil.
Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.
Mass shooters are not the only insane people in this society.....The entire Industrial Society is insane.
The entire Industrial Society is insane, abnormal and criminal.
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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.
This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.
This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.
An Industrial Society will always be cruel to millions of other species and to itself.
A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.
After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not even exist.
Welfare of humans and millions of other species is only possible in a non-industrial society.
Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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Five Elephants were run over by a train in the state of Orissa in India yesterday.
One of them was a female in advanced stage of pregnancy whose foetus came out as the train hit the mother.
The world will celebrate one more New Year's Eve today......After torturing, slaughtering and decimating millions of species this world will celebrate yet another New Year today.
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After destroying planet Earth.....After destroying most of the biodiversity and ecosystems, Industrial Society should be in Mourning but it wants to Celebrate instead.
It wants to Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals.
If Industrial Society had any shame there would have been no Celebrations in the past , no celebrations for the next thousands of years.....only Mourning.
Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species, destroyed Forests, poisoned Rivers, Oceans, Soil and Sky with Billions of Tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste.
Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.
Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!
Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals!!!!.....Go Shopping.....Spend Money.....Buy Gifts....Buy thousands of consumer goods and services.....Promote and Accelerate Industrial Activity which will kill even more Biodiversity and Ecosystems.
And then wait for next year to celebrate the death of nature once more.
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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.
This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.
This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
If Industrial Society had any shame there would have been no Celebrations in the past , no celebrations for the next thousands of years.....only Mourning.
So why don't you take on that project for us... a thousand years of mourning... instead of typing on your computer and posting on the internet... both products of industrialization. Your whole rant is nothing more than a moronic fantasy. You may imagine that the pre-industrial work was some idyllic fairyland... in spite of what you see in the under-developed nations of the world, but history suggests something quite different:
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pink..._violence.html
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Eat, Drink and make Merry (while the planet burns).
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I'm not being racist.
If the world will collapse environmentally, culturally, philosophically, economically, politically, spiritually, technologically, socially, Indians are to blame. Anywhere you go in the world, you'll see Indians manage or monopolize these things. The Indianization of the world is currently happening.
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Progress, Growth and Development (of the material kind) are / were primarily western concepts which were forced upon rest of the world.
Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.
The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.
The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.
The West did not have the foresight to know that a lifestyle based on loot, plunder and exploitation of natural resources would destroy the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years and ultimately lead to total destruction of biodiversity and ecosystems.
The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".
The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.
The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.
Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.
The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.
These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.
In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.
Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment