1984 + The Handmaids Tale

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Originally Posted by hello:)

In the Handmaid's Tale, since the Church and State are not separated, to what extent are the outcomes different from our world?

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In my point of view, the Church and State are in fact separated. When Offred first describes the church across from the Wall, she describes it as "a small one, one of the first erected here, hundreds of years ago. It isn't used anymore, except as a museum...Admission is free" (31). Despite the fact that specific verses are chosen from the Bible to be used to promote the traditions of the Gilead, there is no account of actually attending Church. This is similar to the Church and State of the United States. We see phrases such as "In God We Trust" but Christianity is not denoted as the "official" language. There is no law requiring citizens to be Protestant. In comparison, Gilead does persecute other religions. Though their official denomination is not known, we see the use of the Wall beside the church museum: persecution of those against the government, including priests of several Christian denominations.

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Originally Posted by hello:)

In the Handmaid's Tale, to what extent does Atwood use religious references so that the readers could understand the novel?

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Atwood uses religious references in the novel mainly as a form of irony which also helps to emphasize the dystopian aspects of the novel. For example, she uses the word "Ceremony" to describe sex between the Commander and the Handmaid. "Ceremony" normally has a positive connotation of something that is happy, pious, and religious in nature. Instead, Atwood uses it in this context as something that is negative and has more of a clinical nature than we would normally think. This exemplifies the dystopian nature of the novel, in that a seemingly religious event is turned into something used by the government to exert control. At the same time, Atwood's religious references also represent the theme of duality she portrays throughout her novel. The above example also shows this idea. One of the epigraphs from the beginning of the novel is a quote from the Bible extolling the very same event that is described in Atwood's "Ceremony." So in this way, the "Ceremony" does have a religious undertone to it, and Atwood uses both the religious and seemingly devilish aspects of the "Ceremony" to illustrate the theme of duality that has been evident in all literature we have read so far in class. Also the "Ceremony" is just one example of Atwood's religious perversion. Some others include the "Angels" and "Guardians", "Jezebel's", and the many parts when Scripture is quoted incorrectly throughout the course of the novel. Atwood's religious references help the reader to better understand the society in which the novel takes place, as well as the dystopian nature and duality Atwood portrays during The Handmaid's Tale.

What is the religious or any other significance of the name of the club that the Commander takes Offred to? "Let, hell, they encourage it. Know what they call this place among themselves? Jezebel's" (Atwood 249).
I discovered that she was a princess in the Bible, if this helps.

How do the words "Love" and "Faith", typically associated with religion and the Bible, play into Offred's journey? To what degree do they help her keep her hope alive and exist as long as she does or to what degree do they prevent her from fully assimilating into the Gileadean culture, therefore putting herself at a disadvantage for survival?

"Faith" is found on the pillow. Its like her only connection to the past, because women could read in the past. She says, "I can spend minutes, tens of minutes, running my eyes over the print: FAITH. Its the only thing they've given me to read." (57) This is like her escape from the harsh Gildean society

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Originally Posted by sal7861

"Faith" is found on the pillow. Its like her only connection to the past, because women could read in the past. She says, "I can spend minutes, tens of minutes, running my eyes over the print: FAITH. Its the only thing they've given me to read." (57) This is like her escape from the harsh Gildean society

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I also think that the "Faith" found on the pillow shows that she will be able to escape the Gildean Period if she tries her hardest and doesnt lose her hope. Many have tried to escape from the Gildean society, but it's just so impossible because of the "Eye" always keeping an eye on the people. And going with the quote, "I can spend minutes, tens of minutes, running my eyes over the print: FAITH. Its the only thing they've given me to read" (57), a possible conclusion could be made that the word was "shown" to her to give hope to successfuly escape the Gildean society.

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Originally Posted by cookies55

How do the words "Love" and "Faith", typically associated with religion and the Bible, play into Offred's journey? To what degree do they help her keep her hope alive and exist as long as she does or to what degree do they prevent her from fully assimilating into the Gileadean culture, therefore putting herself at a disadvantage for survival?

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The word "love", typically associated with religion and the Bible plays into Offred's journey because it helps Offred realize that even though the men have been using the women as "sex machines", and they dont really love them, there is still some other source of love that Offred could recieve. The commander in the novel starts to have an "affair" with Offred by calling Offred to his office. There, they play scrabble and read magazines, in which Offred starts to "love" the Commander. In this way, Offred kind of has an escape from the Gildean society because the commander provides her with everything.

What significance is Margaret Atwood trying to show by using Christian Religious names as the characer's names? Is she trying to set up the society by using these names?

In what extent is Chrisitanity used to manage the society in the Gildean Period? And what point is Margaret Atwood trying to get to by doing this?

How are the events in the past that are related to religion as a power/weakness mechanism (ex: persecution of the Jews in Germany)similar to the treatment of the people in the Gilead society according to their religion?

How are the events in the past that are related to religion as a power/weakness mechanism (ex: persecution of the Jews in Germany)similar to the treatment of the people in the Gilead society according to their religion?

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Originally Posted by gujuprinz

In what extent is Chrisitanity used to manage the society in the Gildean Period? And what point is Margaret Atwood trying to get to by doing this?

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The Bible says "Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.” Atwood creates a society where the Handmaids are basically the slaves of the higher classes (the Commander). The quote from the bible which refers to the love between and a women is transformed in order to give a reason to the women in society for why they must bare childeren for the family of the Commander. This is the reason why women are radically subordinate in the Gileaden society. Furthermore, the typical bearing of a child is a result of two people in love but in this society the women do not pray to find the man that they will have a family with but they pray directly that "Give me children, or else I die. Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb? Behold my maid Bilhah. She shall bear upon my knees, that i may also have children by her" (Atwood, 88).

It is important that all the women only pray for the same certain things because women are not allowed to be exposed to anything, for example even reading. In the Gilead society women are only used for one thing, and that is children. If every aspect of there life is isolated and limited, to gain further control even their prayers are monitored. Furthermore, they all pray for the same thing. "Oh God, the King of the universe, thank you for not creating me a man. Oh God, obliterate me. Make me fruitful. Mortify my flesh, that I may be multiplied. Let me be fulfiilled..." (Atwood, 194).

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Originally Posted by kira1234

How are the events in the past that are related to religion as a power/weakness mechanism (ex: persecution of the Jews in Germany)similar to the treatment of the people in the Gilead society according to their religion?

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Well, they are similar in the fact that in both situations, a powerful force makes people under their control believe that other group(s) of people are "wrong" in some way. During the Holocaust, obviously, Hitler led the Nazi army to believe that all Jews were to be hated and killed, alongside handicapped peoples (physically or mentally), homosexuals, Gypsies, etc. In Gileadean society, the government killed many, including doctors who once gave abortions to women (Atwood 32), preists and homosexuals (Atwood 43), Catholics, (Atwood 200), and surely many others.
They are dissimilar, however, because the Holocaust was an event that everyone understood: Hitler hated certain types of people, so he sent out his army to kill them. In Gilead, very few people understand what is actually going on or why so many people are being killed. This is portrayed when Offred is so eager to watch the news, even though she knows it may be fake: "Any news, now, is better than none" (Atwood 82).

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Originally Posted by cookies55

What is the religious or any other significance of the name of the club that the Commander takes Offred to? "Let, hell, they encourage it. Know what they call this place among themselves? Jezebel's" (Atwood 249).
I discovered that she was a princess in the Bible, if this helps.

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The Jezebel in the Bible is also said to have "powers behind the throne". For the text, the club gives women a sense of "freedom", or escape from their normal lives in society. Both reasons go against the norms of society; women do not have power and are assigned specific deeds in Gilead.

In the Bible, Jezebel was also seen as manipulative. While being a princess, she encouraged the worship of Baal, a false idol, over God. In The Handmaid's Tale, the women's bodies can be seen as encouraging, luring the Commanders in for all that "jazz".

In the Republic of Gilead, we see store names with Biblical references, such as Milk and Honey (referring to the Holy Lands of Israel) and Loaves and Fish (referring to the miracle of feeding the 5000). What is Atwood hinting at in naming these places after Biblical allusions?

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Originally Posted by weezyhaahhh

In the Republic of Gilead, we see store names with Biblical references, such as Milk and Honey (referring to the Holy Lands of Israel) and Loaves and Fish (referring to the miracle of feeding the 5000). What is Atwood hinting at in naming these places after Biblical allusions?

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I think that Atwood is trying to emphasise the Bible's effect on the Gileadean society. The only problem is that it seems as though only select portions of the Bible are ever used in society, and even then the passages may be revised: "Blessed are the meek. She didn't go on to say anything about inheriting the earth" (Atwood 64). The importance of the Gileadean practice of using carefully selected Bible passages emphasises the corruption of the society.

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Originally Posted by heath24

When Offred is observing the room she has been moved to for being a handmaid she states, "There's a hard little cushion on it, with a petit cover: Faith." (57) Why is it important that Offred finds this word whcich has a religious connaotation as opposed to any other word?

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Originally Posted by sal7861

"Faith" is found on the pillow. Its like her only connection to the past, because women could read in the past. She says, "I can spend minutes, tens of minutes, running my eyes over the print: FAITH. Its the only thing they've given me to read." (57) This is like her escape from the harsh Gildean society

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Originally Posted by gujuprinz

I also think that the "Faith" found on the pillow shows that she will be able to escape the Gildean Period if she tries her hardest and doesnt lose her hope. Many have tried to escape from the Gildean society, but it's just so impossible because of the "Eye" always keeping an eye on the people. And going with the quote, "I can spend minutes, tens of minutes, running my eyes over the print: FAITH. Its the only thing they've given me to read" (57), a possible conclusion could be made that the word was "shown" to her to give hope to successfuly escape the Gildean society.

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I agree with the idea that the word faith on the pillow allows for Offred to keep hope in finding a way out of the society; she may use it as an escape just like all of her flashbacks to the told times with Luke.
However, I also think it may be an allusion to how to Gilead government is similar to a religion. Faith is generally associated with strongly following a religion based on beliefs and not necessarily hard evidence (even though there may be some). The idea of faith can also be applied to people or organizations as it is in the Gilead society. I doubt that the government would accidentally leave the pillow: "It's the only thing they've given me to read" (Atood 57). Therefore, I think that it was placed deliberately to promote a sense of following and belief that the government is doing the right thing, very similar to the names of rituals and people (the ceremony, prayvaganza, handmaid, commander, etc.)

In The Handmaid's Tale, all handmaids are required to wear a cap with a pair of white "wings" (Atwood 8). The all-seeing Eye also has a pair of white wings (21-22). Why does Atwood give both the powerless handmaid and the extremely powerful eye the same symbolic feature?

"It strikes me that, although I know he's a Commander, I don't know what he's a Commander of. What does he control, what is is field, as they used to say? They don't have specific titles.
"You might say I'm a sort of scientist," he says" (Atwood 185)
Offred poses an interesting question: What are the Commanders commanding? What do they actually do? Might they be in charge of the entire republic of Gilead? If so, why do they place themselves in the position of fertlizing the handmaids when there are other, younger (and probably much more preferable) men available?

Before Offred and the new Ofglen depart, we hear them say the phrase "Under His Eye" to each other (285). Who do you think this "His" is referring to? We have seen many references to the Bible in this novel, so could the society be based on one denomination of Christianity or some other high figure(s) in their society?

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Originally Posted by rachmaninoff

I found it interesting how the guardmen are called Angels. Yes, the guards are protecting the women, but they're also forcing them to stay and give away their futures to be handmaids. Angels are supposed to help people and be in heaven, but the women can't even talk to the Angels or anything. Gilead is definitely not heaven...more like the opposite. :devil:

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I think the Angels refers more specifically to the soldiers that are fighting in the religious wars. Besides protecting the women, I think the Gilead government wants to imply that they are going out and spreading what they think is the correct form of religion. In their society, the Angels are doing good and it is normal for the women not to be able to talk to the men. Only the prior knowledge of Offred and our own biases causes us to think that the society is the opposite of a heaven, for some of the people in the society it is.

Why is it important that it is not explicitly stated what religious denomination the Gilead society belongs to. Is Atwood trying to show the reader the dangers of believing too strongly in one thing?

Are there any other allusions to the Puritans in the Handmaid's Tale? In an interview Margaret Atwood stated that she based he novel on religion and we can see the reference to the elected (the Commanders). Does the witch hunting idea apply to the Gilead society? Offred also mentions "Puritan aids" (64) which is the soap that she uses to clean herself with.

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Originally Posted by weezyhaahhh

Before Offred and the new Ofglen depart, we hear them say the phrase "Under His Eye" to each other (285). Who do you think this "His" is referring to? We have seen many references to the Bible in this novel, so could the society be based on one denomination of Christianity or some other high figure(s) in their society?

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I think it is important that it is kept a mystery to both the characters in the novel and the reader. The idea of some unknown person or thing watching promotes fear that keeps the citizens in line. This idea related to how the government uses religion to control people. Furthermore, relates to the advance in technology and how it can be used to watch people. I think Atwood leaves this idea open to the reader's interpretation so they can evaluate the controlling factors in their own society and apply it to their time period.

If the Gilead society is supposed to be focused on religion, why do they condemn and execute priests and nuns, usually thought of as the most pious people? Is Atwood just using this to show the absurdity and hypocrisy of the society?

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Originally Posted by hello:)

In the Handmaid's Tale, to what extent does Atwood use religious references so that the readers could understand the novel?

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There is irony in the amount of religious references Atwood makes in the novel. Albeit she has many references to Christianity by the Bible, there are no actual references to Christ himself. The church is abandoned and is only a museum, and right across from the church is the Wall. The wall is where many innocent people have been killed and were now being displayed for the sick reason of simply making an example of what not to do. It's quite ironic because that was the purpose of Christ's crucifixion, to show people where the real power lay and to make an example of him. For a very religious society, there is very little mention of religion. I believe the reason she may have done this is to show that what is controlling this society really isn't...religion per say, but just a very corrupt group of peoples who understood that the way to many people's inner thoughts and fears was to mention god.

Reading the Handmaind’s Tale, I think we have all noticed that the handmaid’s names are rather similar to each other. Each having the prefix of ‘of’ and then a masculine names afterwards, (Fred, Glen…). The reason for this is to make the women look like commodities, they don’t even get to retain their original name. On page 99 (Google Books version) Offred is talking about how she is forbidden to say her original name. Besides just taking away the woman’s identity, is there possibly another reason that Atwood chose the suffixes that she did?

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Originally Posted by merelyjoshing

If the Gilead society is supposed to be focused on religion, why do they condemn and execute priests and nuns, usually thought of as the most pious people? Is Atwood just using this to show the absurdity and hypocrisy of the society?

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I think the Gilead society condemns and executes priests and nuns because these priests and nuns have excessive knowledge regarding the religion the Gilead regime is trying to manipulate and use to its advantage. If the priest and nuns were still around during the Gilead regime, it would not be possible to manipulate them and change the context of the Bible because the nuns and priests would know that it is not correct. At one point in the book it says "Blessed are the silent. I knew they made that up, I knew it was wrong, and they left things out, too, but there was no way of checking" (89). Offred knows that this part of the Beatitudes was incorrect, but she does not have the knowledge to really be sure. however, if it were a nun in her place, or if Offred had access to a priest or a nun, she could confirm this, and other women could know for certain that they are being preached lies and are being manipulated. all of this relates back to the theme of manipulation of religion.

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Originally Posted by weezyhaahhh

Before Offred and the new Ofglen depart, we hear them say the phrase "Under His Eye" to each other (285). Who do you think this "His" is referring to? We have seen many references to the Bible in this novel, so could the society be based on one denomination of Christianity or some other high figure(s) in their society?

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To me it seems as if the regime requires them to use this greeting so that to the outsiders it seems as if they are saying under God's eye, but when the handmaid's say it to each other, it is almost a warning, reminding each other to watch what they say because they are always being watched by someone. At one point in the novel Offred mentions that everyone is supervising the other, and every person is required to report anything suspicious and inappropriate they hear or see. So when the handmaids greet each other by saying "Under His Eye" (285), they are either warning or looking out for the other by telling them to watch what they say and do. I also think that because no specific denomination of Christianity is given in the novel, it would be hard to really pinpoint who Atwood was referring to by the use of "His".

"Dear God, I think, I will do anything you like. Now that you've let me off, I'll obliterate myself, if that's what you really want; I'll empty myself, truly, become a chalice. I'll give up Nick, I'll forget about the others. I'll stop complaining. I'll accept my lot. I'll sacrifice. I'll repent. I'll abdicate. I'll renounce. I know this can't be right but I think it anyway. Everything they taught at the Red Center, everything I've resisted, comes flooding in" (286). In this quote we see that at the end of the novel when Offred suspects that she is going to be taken away, she turns to God and tries to bargain her way out. Do you think there was a reason that Atwood chose for Offred to suddenly turn to religion before she is taken away, and do you think that Offred really believed that she could bargain her way out?

In the epigraph of the novel it says "And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her" Genesis 30:1-3
If in the bible it states that Jacob and Rachel used a maid to birth their child, does this imply that Atwood is criticizing religion as well as society, or is Atwood implying that a dystopian society begins when people take a small part of religion and base their whole society around it without taking into consideration all of the other parts of the religion?

Why Atwood chooses to name the stores after biblical events and other such allusions is to make the setting of the book a new city upon a hill as the Puritans declared they would. I believe that with the all seeing government that Atwood creates is similar to the city upon a hill the puritans wished to achieve. "that we shall be as a city upon a hill—the eyes of all people are upon us". This is from Winthrop's sermon on creating the new Jerusalem in Massachusetts. This quote can be interpreted that all other governments will model theres after this newly created one, but it can also be interpreted that all of the people of the city upon the hill will be in the eyes of the government as well. Atwood could be alluding to the terrible end of the Republic of Gilead as well as happened to the Puritans who also took biblical context and used it for their benefit in controlling a newly assembled mass of people.

With all of it's controlling ways, can the republic of Gilead be considered a "stable" society? What factors in the society's structure show it to be stable?*

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Originally Posted by weezyhaahhh

In the Republic of Gilead, we see store names with Biblical references, such as Milk and Honey (referring to the Holy Lands of Israel) and Loaves and Fish (referring to the miracle of feeding the 5000). What is Atwood hinting at in naming these places after Biblical allusions?

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Why Atwood chooses to name the stores after biblical events and other such allusions is to make the setting of the book a new city upon a hill as the Puritans declared they would. I believe that with the all seeing government that Atwood creates is similar to the city upon a hill the puritans wished to achieve. "that we shall be as a city upon a hill—the eyes of all people are upon us". This is from Winthrop's sermon on creating the new Jerusalem in Massachusetts. This quote can be interpreted that all other governments will model theres after this newly created one, but it can also be interpreted that all of the people of the city upon the hill will be in the eyes of the government as well. Atwood could be alluding to the terrible end of the Republic of Gilead as well as happened to the Puritans who also took biblical context and used it for their benefit in controlling a newly assembled mass of people.

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Originally Posted by VintagaGirl

In The Handmaid's Tale, all handmaids are required to wear a cap with a pair of white "wings" (Atwood 8). The all-seeing Eye also has a pair of white wings (21-22). Why does Atwood give both the powerless handmaid and the extremely powerful eye the same symbolic feature?

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The reason Atwood gives both the soldiers who are powerful and the handmaids who are not powerful at all the same symbol is to represent protection. The Soldiers, referred to as "Angels" are there to protect the well being of the people of Gilead from any infiltrators with ill will. The wings of the handmaids' outfits is also to demonstrate their purpose to keep away unwanted eyes of men as Offred explains on P.21 as she thinks about what her provocative swaying must do to the guardians. The wings are symbolizing protection Gilead tries to promise. Though, it is also ironic that wings also symbolize freedom and what Gilead has to offer its people (mainly the women) is the opposite of freedom.

"And so I step up, into the darkness within: or else the light." (295)

"Did our narrator reach the outside world safely and build a new life for herself? Or was she discovered in her attic hiding place, arrested, sent to the Colonies or Jezebel's, or even executed?" (311)

Why is it important that Offred's fate remains anonymous? Is it merely just a plot device to ponder her plight after the covers have been closed? Or is it to demonstrate the human capacity to have faith in the unknown or something completely different? Why does Atwood do this?

In the Historical Notes section at the end of Handmaid's Tale, the historical research characters review the tape's created by Offred and scour them for any historical tidbits left by her to create a better understanding of Gilead and its inner workings. They treat her memoirs just as an unfortunate event in history that has come and passed. Why does Atwood create this end section? It seems to lessen Offred's plight in the grande scheme of things and alludes to the possibility that history is liable to repeat itself again. Is Atwood doing this as a warning to us, that societies like Gilead and others are doomed to fail eventually?

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Originally Posted by merelyjoshing

Are there any other allusions to the Puritans in the Handmaid's Tale? In an interview Margaret Atwood stated that she based he novel on religion and we can see the reference to the elected (the Commanders). Does the witch hunting idea apply to the Gilead society? Offred also mentions "Puritan aids" (64) which is the soap that she uses to clean herself with.

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I believe the other Puritan references made were more subtle than the soap itself. The other references were made in the way of the fact that this society presents itself as perfect society with no vice. Such as on page 118, the Aunt is showing them pornography and videos where women are treated violently, only to compare them to the Gilead society and to proclaim that their land is perfect, that their world is the little 'city on the hill' as the Puritans struggled to achieve.

There is the point in the novel where the first Ofglen committed suicide because the van was coming for her. Gilead has also removed anything that may be a used a suicidal device for the women. Even more ironic is the fact that their freedom is further obstructed by 'wings' and 'angels'. If Gilead is well aware that the women wish to escape so badly, why does the government continue to make women suffer? What is their perspective on the light at the end of the tunnel? And furthermore, how do you think they explain the suicides to the other women?