Lady Chatterley's Lover

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Originally Posted by ftil

Yes, I agree that in deep love people transcend their ego. I wouldn’t say that they don’t feel their individuality. They definitely don’t while making love but they have to have a strong sense of self to feel deep love. When people have a strong self of self, they are relatively free from defenses and can fully give in to their feelings. It is a key since there is no space for prejudice or any limiting beliefs. Dance is not that powerful as love but people transcend the ego boundaries and many times they feel love.
I agree that that kind of depth of experience is not possible for most people. Sad, indeed, as many try to find fulfillment in many wrong ways that leave them empty.

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That is why no marriage can pair off each other properly and that is people seek it somewhere and that is the predicament we live in society and now few people can fathom the depth of love and can understand each other's bodies and the touch then becomes superficial and few can touch the innermost part each other while making love. I always feel there must be a good amount of understanding each other and their mental and physical frames and then only they must physically touch, caress and kiss and proceed further to have sex or else this will be shallow.

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Originally Posted by osho

That is why no marriage can pair off each other properly and that is people seek it somewhere and that is the predicament we live in society and now few people can fathom the depth of love and can understand each other's bodies and the touch then becomes superficial and few can touch the innermost part each other while making love. I always feel there must be a good amount of understanding each other and their mental and physical frames and then only they must physically touch, caress and kiss and proceed further to have sex or else this will be shallow.

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I agree that the foundation must be built if people want to have deep and fulfilling relationships. Otherwise, even to strongest physical attraction fade away…and people are endlessly looking for another experience. But there are people who don’t feel at all as if they don’t have souls and the only feelings they experience is sexual energy. I have noticed that they look for a feeling person. They should look for a numb person but it is not a case.

Oh, I did a lot of talking here. I like this subject but I better give a space to others. :lol:

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Originally Posted by ftil

I agree that the foundation must be built if people want to have deep and fulfilling relationships. Otherwise, even to strongest physical attraction fade away…and people are endlessly looking for another experience. But there are people who don’t feel at all as if they don’t have souls and the only feelings they experience is sexual energy. I have noticed that they look for a feeling person. They should look for a numb person but it is not a case.

Oh, I did a lot of talking here. I like this subject but I better give a space to others. :lol:

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It is nice to hear you like this subject and in fact this is one such subject that speaks up much about human nature, their passion, their love and lust, their urges and some of the suppressed desires that never got addressed and that remained layered inside them. In fact the truth about human relationship, union, marriage and sexual interests go on ebbing and though when they meet first in their flowering days they woo each other and find them their relationship poignant and juicing. The juice of love goes on dripping inside them as long as the source does not dry up. That is why both men and women fall for someone else, an extramarital affair and he cannot feel drawn in there and time saps the relationship and if nothing is done to renew it the will perform like dry bones.

This is human situation and life becomes a bore, sickening; everything around turns up unappealing, unappetizing. The thrill of touch, fits of kisses and caresses and a series of sexual performances all will die down and still two individuals stand up to each other feigning love and relationship. This is trash

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Originally Posted by osho

It is nice to hear you like this subject and in fact this is one such subject that speaks up much about human nature, their passion, their love and lust, their urges and some of the suppressed desires that never got addressed and that remained layered inside them. In fact the truth about human relationship, union, marriage and sexual interests go on ebbing and though when they meet first in their flowering days they woo each other and find them their relationship poignant and juicing. The juice of love goes on dripping inside them as long as the source does not dry up. That is why both men and women fall for someone else, an extramarital affair and he cannot feel drawn in there and time saps the relationship and if nothing is done to renew it the will perform like dry bones.

This is human situation and life becomes a bore, sickening; everything around turns up unappealing, unappetizing. The thrill of touch, fits of kisses and caresses and a series of sexual performances all will die down and still two individuals stand up to each other feigning love and relationship. This is trash

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Well, life without passions is not worth living. If people let their passions, feelings, love, and lust flow, their spirits get stronger and they feel fully alive. But relationship and love is like a gentle flower that needs to be taken care of. People fool themselves that if they start a new affair or divorce to be with somebody else, they will find all aliveness and passions. Yes, for a very short time LOL I have a neighbor who was 3 times married. 4 months after his 3 wife left him, I couldn’t recognize him. I was shocked as he aged so much in 4 months. I was curious what had happened. He never took time after the relationship ended to be alone and to deal with all feelings. He jumped into another relationship very fast. 6 moths after the first relationship ended and 3 moths after a second one. He said that he was absolutely devastated by the extensity of his feelings after his last wife left. I could see it as he aged with a speed of light. But there are people who are emotionally numb. It is sad.

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Originally Posted by ftil

Well, life without passions is not worth living. If people let their passions, feelings, love, and lust flow, their spirits get stronger and they feel fully alive. But relationship and love is like a gentle flower that needs to be taken care of. People fool themselves that if they start a new affair or divorce to be with somebody else, they will find all aliveness and passions. Yes, for a very short time LOL I have a neighbor who was 3 times married. 4 months after his 3 wife left him, I couldn’t recognize him. I was shocked as he aged so much in 4 months. I was curious what had happened. He never took time after the relationship ended to be alone and to deal with all feelings. He jumped into another relationship very fast. 6 moths after the first relationship ended and 3 moths after a second one. He said that he was absolutely devastated by the extensity of his feelings after his last wife left. I could see it as he aged with a speed of light. But there are people who are emotionally numb. It is sad.

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Life without passions, love and lust is totally empty, a dried up watercourse and it does not flow and has nothing to drown somebody in an ocean of joy and aliveness goes with embrace and the feelings it implants in the other. Yes, your neighbor is emotionally numb, dead and he took love for sexual gratification and once he fulfils this he finds the other unnecessary. When one matures sexually, emotionally and hormonally sex is inevitable and a bodily intercourse is a must to keep themselves emotionally together, but it does not stop there and if they stop their they will stop to feel the warmth of the other and sheer acts of sex become very stomach-turning in a while. They find the other side green. That is why marriage done without understanding each other is likely to fail and if the failures does not end up in a divorce, emotionally they fail and they find the togetherness of each other very cumbersome, discomforting. That is why physical or bodily relationships must precede enough understanding, hugging, caressing and talking heartedly or else the fountain of love will dry up and one will grope for something again

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Originally Posted by osho

Life without passions, love and lust is totally empty, a dried up watercourse and it does not flow and has nothing to drown somebody in an ocean of joy and aliveness goes with embrace and the feelings it implants in the other. Yes, your neighbor is emotionally numb, dead and he took love for sexual gratification and once he fulfils this he finds the other unnecessary. When one matures sexually, emotionally and hormonally sex is inevitable and a bodily intercourse is a must to keep themselves emotionally together, but it does not stop there and if they stop their they will stop to feel the warmth of the other and sheer acts of sex become very stomach-turning in a while. They find the other side green. That is why marriage done without understanding each other is likely to fail and if the failures does not end up in a divorce, emotionally they fail and they find the togetherness of each other very cumbersome, discomforting. That is why physical or bodily relationships must precede enough understanding, hugging, caressing and talking heartedly or else the fountain of love will dry up and one will grope for something again

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I think that my neighbor paid a big price for avoiding his feelings. But I don’t think that he understood it as he moved into another relationship 1 year later. Unfortunately, he moved out so that I don’t know if he was left again or not. Lol You are right saying that he was using his partners. I don’t know details about his relationships but he definitely needed women to do emotional work for him. No wonder, it was no he who ended relationships.
Some people do not want to grow and become a mature adult. :biggrin5:

I like this fascinating discussion between osho and ftil and it has almost given an air of romantic chat and both seem to have diverged a little further on a passionate level. Sharing something of their experience with enough romantic tangs. It is not bad to switch to express thoughts and yet this elongated talk has been too personal and sentimental as if the partakers knew each other intimately.
I have read Lady Chatterley’s Lover and Lawrence used some offensive terns and in his lifetime and he earned his popularity much afterwards and critical acclaim posthumously only and of course I understand the writer has voiced for sensuous or physical love, something one has to enjoy by touching each other disregarding the old notion of detached love, a certain mental frame.
Both osho and ftil has really added to it more than Lawrence did, finding it a platform for their discussion, with an air of sensuality.

I am not critical of it though I may sound so a bit. This kind of open discussion is critical to literature and makes the forum livelier and of course lovelier. We all are capable of being exposed to emotional or romantic fits and life is like that and there is no sin in that. We need a partner to talk to, the right partner of course and both got in each other to be carried to an extent that can entertain a reader like myself.

I am not denigrating anybody here and they are my friends and I have talked to osho and enjoyed his romantic poems. Most of his poem have plenty of romantic elements and I believe he must be youthful both in spirit and body.

This is my critical appreciation or comment on the discussion.

I agree with you that sharing our experience and feelings add aliveness to our discussions. I believe that sharing our feelings and insights with others is the best what we give to each other. I don’t like dry and detached discussions. I want to know what others feel. Beliefs are just beliefs and we change them like used clothing when they don’t fit any more. I also don’t like dry discussion about literature. Those who write share their souls, happiness, and sorrows and it evokes feelings and insights within us. It is interesting what you said that our discussion has given an air of romantic chat. I have the same kind of discussions with female friends. I believe that our lives would be different if we had emotional intimacy with people. But culture trained us to have emotional intimacy only in romantic relationships. It is wrong because when we can connect with each other on a deeper level we feel alive and energized. I have a couple of female friends and after spending time with them I feel energized so that I can’t fall asleep. I sleep for 4 hours but I feel like sleeping 8. Yes, we need a partner to talk to but I would extend it to other interactions too. :smile5:

Blaze is somewhat right and there was not just an air of romantic thought, but the wind of passion and we got swept far and far. Everyone wants it and though we live with pretense. I like ftil the way she is, a passionate lady and every word of her moved me and that is why got carried thus far passionately and spontaneously. I found a fire in her writing, and every word she wrote was abounding with beauty. Maybe we were on the same wavelength. As a human being I like a fully alive, vital lady of passion, not a robot and her ways of speaking is aflame with love, feeling and awareness. Do not narrow down the meaning of love to sex, and love is there between humans and that is why I like somebody’ writing and ideas. Every love issue does not end up in a physical intimacy. Physical intimacy between humans must not be a barrier to love to make life bleak. I love everybody here, the rest of guys and chicks. But this liking goes a little farther and that enables me to understand the person I am touch with or in love with. I can be in love with anybody and yet this is not a sexual intercourse and it is a spiritual intercourse, mental intercourse and this intercourse has gone on a deeper level between myself and ftil and this goes on unabashed so long as we can keep on understanding each other tolerantly and un-biasedly. Everybody has a heart and a heart is not something of veins and arteries; it has something subtler and profounder and that is feeling and both of us have plenty of it and have gone brimful and as long the source does not dry up we will carry on and you can join in the stream as a tributary and once you flow with us you are not a tributary, you will be the same river and going to an ocean and will be ocean. Imagine when come out of our egocentric confinement we will feel universal love.
Blaze, you too are heartily welcome

Osho and ftil has gone a little far and further than the rest of us and there is some room for something, and very candidly, there seemed some fishy thing and that is what I made out at first. They were talking as if it was a chat between two lovers passionately driven by some urge, romantic and sexual. I was too blinkered to think along those lines but human minds are capable of anything and this is the instinctive feeling and in a while, and particularly after reading ftil’s response and the subsequent response from osho I have a different thought and I realized it is not so and they are far above and beyond our or my own narrow thought. They are humans, a little bolder, a little more honest and sincere.
The subject matter seemed to have winched to some out of the context stuff and yet I am sure they are going not off hand or off course. They are in the same spirit as Lawrence is in his famous novel, Lady Chatterley’s Lover
Anyway for the first time on this forum I am reading a romantic stuff

Blaze I am glad that you have joined our discussion. I will tell you something……. in secret what my avatar stands for. Freedom, truth, integrity, and love. Sometimes, I got a harsh treatment for my honesty. But as an old proverb says, “If something doesn’t kill you, it will only make you stronger.” Well, women were programmed to be a lady…..not to be honest and passionate so that I definitely challenge old stereotypes……. with a punishment attached to it. :brow:


Osho, you have beautify expressed the essence of being a fully human. We got a heart for a reason! We want to touch another heart and we want others to touch our hearts. We are emotional beings and I strongly believe that we can only understand another human being on an emotional level. It is a universal need of all human beings to be heard and to be understood without judgment or criticism. If I can’t understand what others feel I am lost and I lose interest to talk. Spiritual and mental intercourse. I like that. It is a connection with another human being that makes us fully alive. Yes, we need to bring our passions back in everything what we do. I don’t just hate cleaning. I passionately hate it! It helps. Passion is contagious. I have noticed a shift of energy in people when I talk about something I am passionate about.

I have to read this book, particularly as both of you talk about it. There is also another member who has opened his tread about that subject. I may have many questions I will ask. To be honest, I do understand women but sometimes I don’t understand men. I can’t understand when they can’t translate their thoughts into feelings. It will be excited to get a deeper understanding.

It's worth reading other Lawrence books as well, as the exploration of physical vs. spiritual love and the search to find both in one person is present throughout his novels. I'd recommend Sons and Lovers and Women in Love.

I watched an interesting interview yesterday. It was not about relationships but somehow it brought many issues that relate to relationships and the importance of strong family bonds. It is a human need and desire to find a physical and mental and emotional connection in one person. People who have deep and fulfilling relationships are not only the happiest and healthiest but also they are highly successful in all areas in of their lives. They live their lives to the fullest and have not only deep intimate relationship with a partner but also with children and friends. They are inner directed and principle oriented, having a strong self of self. They can’t be controlled and they don’t control others. Unfortunately, those people constitute a small percentage of society. Did Lawrence found a panacea? I can’t answer it as I haven’t read it yet. But I have feelings that he did not, otherwise he wouldn’t be writing about it but living and enjoying it. I will see if my feelings were wrong or not. :lol:

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Originally Posted by ftil

I watched an interesting interview yesterday. It was not about relationships but somehow it brought many issues that relate to relationships and the importance of strong family bonds. It is a human need and desire to find a physical and mental and emotional connection in one person. People who have deep and fulfilling relationships are not only the happiest and healthiest but also they are highly successful in all areas in of their lives. They live their lives to the fullest and have not only deep intimate relationship with a partner but also with children and friends. They are inner directed and principle oriented, having a strong self of self. They can’t be controlled and they don’t control others. Unfortunately, those people constitute a small percentage of society. Did Lawrence found a panacea? I can’t answer it as I haven’t read it yet. But I have feelings that he did not, otherwise he wouldn’t be writing about it but living and enjoying it. I will see if my feelings were wrong or not. :lol:

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In fact it is really hard to say whether one can have that most sought after thrill of blending and in fact we humans have flaws and hubristic mindsets and we never can still our minds at a particular point. When we are alone we want to build a relation, emotional, sexual and social and we come physically and emotionally closer to a certain POINT and extension and once we reach that stage we become fed up with this relation and crave the other greener side, more romantic, sensuous and fulfilling and that is how humans flirt and in some cases people cluster in a family setup and their confinements within that set boundary has much more to do with their limitations and fears and securities. There are some value or cultural issues too that make us eternally bound or get hooked to a single bond. Imagine how instable our minds are. They are like birds flying borderless in the open sky and no national or political boundaries can obstruct their flights. If you look at this issue from this lens I think you will second the thought of Lawrence. We are crippled by our traditions and that is why we mostly live depressed in society

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Originally Posted by osho

In fact it is really hard to say whether one can have that most sought after thrill of blending and in fact we humans have flaws and hubristic mindsets and we never can still our minds at a particular point. When we are alone we want to build a relation, emotional, sexual and social and we come physically and emotionally closer to a certain POINT and extension and once we reach that stage we become fed up with this relation and crave the other greener side, more romantic, sensuous and fulfilling and that is how humans flirt and in some cases people cluster in a family setup and their confinements within that set boundary has much more to do with their limitations and fears and securities. There are some value or cultural issues too that make us eternally bound or get hooked to a single bond. Imagine how instable our minds are. They are like birds flying borderless in the open sky and no national or political boundaries can obstruct their flights. If you look at this issue from this lens I think you will second the thought of Lawrence. We are crippled by our traditions and that is why we mostly live depressed in society

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Well, I ask different questions than you. There is nothing inspiring to look at those who failed. In other word, to look at those who are chasing a shadow. It can make us only depressed. No wonder so many people use Prozac. Doing the same again and again but expecting different results...... is insanity. :wink5:
It we want a different result we need to change our behavior. I prefer to look at those who succeeded and to learn from them.