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I'm not pleased about that. I understand your concerns. I just don't know what to do about it. There are a lot of people in the world and for them to eat meat is raising their standard of living. I don't want people to live in poverty and being denied affordable meat is poverty.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikolaiI
Then again you could be feeding those people with crops grown on the land allotted to growing feed for livestock. Cows are yummy and all, but that cow easily eats the equivalent of several meals for a human being every day of its brief life. I don't know what the currently accepted ratios are, but cows are one of the least efficient ways of producing food.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
I rest my case :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by OrphanPip
Come'on everbody let's all be friends, not to say that this thread has gotten vicious, but it probably will. This is a shaky subject, and yet it is so futile. I mean, I applaud vegetarians for being so compassionate for beings not even of their own species, but on the other hand, what does it really do? It by no means stops the meat-product companies from killing animals, and if you can't get two-thirds of the country off McDonalds, you're certainly not going to get it on a vegetarian diet.
Sure if efficiency is your goal, then so be it. But no one considers himself having a decent standard of living eating rabbit food. I certainly wouldn't for myself and I don't expect others to. If you want to live that way, that's your business.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrphanPip
Perhaps we could first concentrate on providing any form of proper nutrition before we start looking at palatability. I can't say I can speak for everyone, but I imagine that most people prefer some food to no food.
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases...stock.hrs.html
Edit: I have to comment on the vegetarian dating site ads, google ads never fails to amaze me.
I'm glad the guys begging for money on the access roads near me can get a $1 double-cheese burger. But those people who have a bit more money, I think should consider whether it might be better for their meat to be expensive. Why not enjoy something (meat, even) that isn't the product of torture and abuse rather than turning a blind eye to the horrible practices. I like the one meat meal a day idea, too. Just grabbing cheap meat at the grocery store is understandable, but there is insanity going on to make it possible, a bunch of corporate-driven bottom-line logic.
I really think a lot of people aren't aware of what goes on with these animals, there's such a disconnect. Of course people are gonna get upset if they're accused of being unkind to animals--they are only eating--but I think it is wrong to suggest nothing can be done about the problem.
It isn't a pleasant discussion, though, and I pretty much never bring it up outside of a thread specifically about it in an online forum. I certainly wouldn't shake up a meal with other people over it. But if someone is reading this thread, and they feel angry at me or whatever, sorry about that, and of course do whatever. But saying nothing can be done, as if that's the big winning justification to the issue, might actually have an effect on some people reading it.
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There are three forms of violence: bringing meat or ask, cut the body of the creature, buy / cook / eat meat.
(Mahabharata 115.40)
In the book The Science of Self-Realization
Journalist: How do you know that animals have a soul?
Srila Prabhupada: You can certainly find out. Here is scientific proof. Animals were looking for food, you are also looking for food, the animals were sleeping, you were sleeping, the animal was protecting himself, you're protecting ourselves, animals do sexual activities, you also make sexual activity, the animals have children, you also have children , you have a place to live, they also have. If the animal's body torn, blood will out. When your body is torn, will also bleed. So, all these similarities really real plastered in front of us. If so, why would you want to deny this truth? That animals and we both have a spirit! Have you ever studied logic? In the science of logic, there is a comparison principle, namely by searching things equal between two objects, then make conclusions. If humans and animals have so much in common, both have a spirit, why do you deny this fact? Logic and scientific truth can not be denied.
Master Wang Che Kuang, Director of the Institute of Maitreya the World: "In the face of this earth, although there were only two people, provided that still eat meat, then the war will still be there."
George Bernard Shaw wrote a song for peace:
We are the living graves of the animals were killed, slaughtered to satisfy our lust mouth ...
Only quote ...
Harvey Diamond: Enter an apple, a rabbit and a baby into the bassinet. If the baby is eating the rabbit, then playing with the apple, then I'll buy you a new car ...
ok, ok...
Is that supposed to be profound?Quote:
Originally Posted by Radha Krsna
I believe it is more like pointed humour. :)
Commercial feed lots/inefficient meat production aside, is this also to imply that those who hunt to make up for what they cannot afford are wrong to provide for themselves and their families? Also, I didn't see any pictures of cows above. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Radha Krsna
No that is fine, I'm largely unconcerned with the ethics of killing animals as long as it isn't done deliberately cruelly. I just have issues with the operation of industrial farms. The average North American would probably be a lot better off with smaller and fewer servings of meat anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by skib
Pip I've agreed with everything you've said so far. You speak uncommon common sense and I admire your tenacity in the face of the replies you have received. Just thought you might appreciate some support.:thumbs_upQuote:
Originally Posted by OrphanPip
No it isn't. You may as well say salt is a poison. Too much of it will kill you. In sufficient doses cyanide, ricin & radioactive plutonium is a poison, although I believe arsenic in small doses is actually a tonic. In fact, according to modern medical research, small doses of alcohol are good for you. So is a *bacon sandwich. :thumbs_upQuote:
Originally Posted by NikolaiI
*Oh, I forgot, especially with HP Sauce!
+1. For a good read on the American food industry, check out The Omnivore's Dilemma or In Defense of Food, both by Michael Pollan. I try to buy local/free range/etc., but it's hard since 90% of the time I'm eating in the dining hall:sick:.Quote:
No that is fine, I'm largely unconcerned with the ethics of killing animals as long as it isn't done deliberately cruelly. I just have issues with the operation of industrial farms. The average North American would probably be a lot better off with smaller and fewer servings of meat anyway.
I feel like Americans are going to start seeing more serious health effects from our eating habits, in particular due to the industries where we get our food (both meat and otherwise).