I'm wondering why Mademoiselle Reisz made the comment that she played the piano because edna asked and she would not play for those others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
I'm wondering why Mademoiselle Reisz made the comment that she played the piano because edna asked and she would not play for those others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
I think Mademoiselle Reisz, as someone who did possess an artistic temperament, and who was strong enough emotionally to "go her own way" recognized a kindred spirit in Edna. She made the statement that she would play for Edna because she "was the only one worth playing for." I think she sensed Edna's awakening to her true self, while the others were still slaves to convention.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
papayahed, she said something about that; something to the effect that she knew only Edna would appreciate her playing (her talent/art). I will try to find the exact passage.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
I agree that most women back then, in this time period would not be expected to have painting talent or any great talent for that matter. As Scheherazade said, they may go to 'finishing school', and learn to do some social sort of talents, perhaps sing, sew, etc. However, I agree that they were not always expected to be professional at these skills. In fact, in the book that Dark Muse compared this story to - "To The Lighthouse", Lily's painting is quite out of the mainstream of accepted female behavoir. In fact, also her choice to remain single back then was frowned upon; Mrs. Ramsey is one who obviously disapproves of it. People seemed not to accept that in a female back then and may hounded her continually. I don't think Edna reminded me of Lily, because Lily was married and she was quite independent and modern thinking for the time; but I can see you connecting them in the way, that by the end of the respective novels, they do undergo some sort of 'awakening'; however their individual 'awakening' is so much different; big difference is the sexual element. It is strange though, thoughout my reading this time of TA, I am constantly reminded of the atmosphere of the other novel and especially the overbearing manner of the husband in the other novel - TTLH. In both books/worlds, the man rules the roost and it causes great difficulty. As soon as Edna returned home and we were given a good glimpse of her homelife; how overbearing her husband was. One example was how her husband behaved complaining of the cook at their dinner-table as though the failed dinner was all Edna's fault; I recall the same sort of scene taking place in the Ramsey household, at the family/guest dinner and how he threw a dizzy about an earwig he found in his soup or salad, and he was ready to fire the cook; but in the same time he was taking his wrath out on his family, especially Mrs Ramsey.
In those days, men led a more independent life and was able to receive education and get to see the world if they chose to do so. Having that kind of freedom, even men were not blessed enough to experience "the awakening" so it was harder women to go through such an experience.
Scheherazade Quote:
Scheherazade,Glad you agree along these same lines. I felt that the title aptly suggests the woman was indeed sleeping until she is 'awakened' by life; she has been merely walking blindly through the steps of her life and accepting, in a 'numbed' fashion, her lot in life, as a 'proper' wife and mother; however, in doing so she is never realising or recognising her actual self or real life and what love means or seeing any happiness in the life she found herself trapped in. Sad to say, but up until this point, her life has been a sort of charade. Again I saw she is like the parrot in the cage; I only add mimicking others and not realising her own life and her own words.Quote:
"The awakening", in my opinion, is very similar to what Janine touches upon in her post. It is putting an end to mere floating through life and becoming aware of one's place and purpose in life and beginning to question one's role and, hence, having different expectations from life and people around them.
Such self-awareness is something not many people experience, which is why I think it was described like a divine interruption (Holy Ghost), I believe.
MissScarlett quote
MissScarlett, I was thinking along these lines, too. I believe that is accurate, what you just wrote.Quote:
I think Mademoiselle Reisz, as someone who did possess an artistic temperament, and who was strong enough emotionally to "go her own way" recognized a kindred spirit in Edna. She made the statement that she would play for Edna because she "was the only one worth playing for." I think she sensed Edna's awakening to her true self, while the others were still slaves to convention.
In the begining of the book when they are on vaccation and Edna is on the beach drawing just struck me as very Lily like. And though Edna is married she does not seem to be the "tradidtiona" or more conventional housewife as it were. Leonce makes remarks about her ablity to be a mother, and she compares herself to Madame Ratignolle who is the model victorian woman.
And both Edna and Lily start out with doubts about thier artistic ablity, and question thesmevles, and as Edna starts to become more indenpentdent she begins to dedicate more of her time to her art. Though I still do not see Edna as nesccasairly becoming a professional artist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Ok, I get your point. It's funny, because I keep thinking of the other book, too and the various quirky characters. I feel like watching the BBC adaptation movie of TTLH; not exactly but still the gist and the atmosphere of the seaside cottage, etc. Maybe, I will watch it tonight.
I've read To the Lighthouse, and I agree with both of you - Dark Muse and Janine, The Awakening did remind me of the other book, but not until you two spoke of it. I think Edna was a little like Lily, perhaps not quite a strong emotionally. Then again, perhaps I'm not remembering the Woof book correctly.
I think the parrot in the beginning of the book definitely symbolizes Edna. When he mimicked others, speaking in Spanish and French, he was understood, but when he spoke a language of his own, no one understood him. It was the same with Edna. When she obeyed every little manner of the day, people related to her, wanted her near them, but the more she's awakened, the more isolated she becomes. I could say more about this, but I want to wait until others catch up with our conversation.
I think Adele Ratignolle and the Farival twins are representative of the kind of "art" Victorian women were "supposed" to indulge in. These women were rather accomplished at the piano. They could play to amuse others, so that others might pass a pleasant evening, but they were not artists like the rather Bohemian Mademoiselle Reisz, who is the one who does understand Edna. And I think Edna connects with Mademoiselle Reisz through the latter's music. Instead of simply seeing pretty pictures in her mind when someone played the piano, when Mademoiselle Reisz played, "she saw no pictures of solitude, of hope, of longing, or of despair. But the very passions themselves were aroused within her soul, swaying it, lashing it, as the waves daily beat upon her splendid body." This is why Mademoiselle Reisz said Edna was the only one worth playing for, I think. Edna was awakening, and she connected with the older woman's art, even if Edna, herself, wasn't such an artist. Yes, as Janine pointed out, it's more a sexual and personal awakening than an artistic one, but it's an awakening to one's own needs nonetheless.
Edna's awakening seems to being, or at least to heighten, when she learns to swim. She's so delighted with that, and she swims more and more. I think this indicates she has the need, and at least some ability, to do things on her own, to be her own person and not simply Mrs. Pontellier.
I just finnised the book and I found the ending a bit dissapointing. I will not say too much about it now, for those who have not yet finnished only.
Only that, if it is implying what I think it is implying than to me it defeats the whole purpose of the story.
On the ending, I interpret it this way. Go for love and search for spiritual freedom, but do not overly depend on someone else. Edna has in a way built her new dreams on another person, and she was led to disappointment. She had the courage to step out, but she could not face it alone.
Yes that would make sense. It just seems that if that were the case, well than ultimately in the end Edna turly was not really very independent at all, and so her whole "awakening" became a bit of a farse toward the end. In the end she still relied upon a man and was still ultimately weak.
If one is discussing the ending, I just would request that 'SPOILER' were placed before the entry. Some individuals are still not done reading the story, I believe. When can we begin discussing the beginning of this story and work through it to to discover symbolism and other elements that make the story interesting?
From the very first lines, I felt drawn into this story by the parrot and bird references and the way the atmosphere of the seaside was depicted. Does anyone else have thoughts on those elements of what they may mean, indicate or fortell? I particularly like the relaying of the imaginary swimming dream of Edna's in the field when she was a young girl. I thought that definitely was a forshadowing device. I also wondered if everyone thought Edna completely stable; at times I was not totally sure; however I did not perceive her as her husband did later on. I think there was a major difference but still at times she seemed to me numb or in a depressed state prior to her awakening. I wondered what all those years of repression had done to her; what effect they ultimately did have on her. I think this might be an interesting aspect to explore.
Swimming plays a very significant role within this story as it comes up more than once in very key ways. Edna's learning to swim can be seen as highly representative of many of the other elements within this book.
Water as a symbol is highly charged and stands for many different things which could reflect some of the themes seen in this story. Water of coarse is predominately known as a representation for life or the "life-force." It is also symbolized as the womb, and is seen as a cleansing, purifying agent, as well as a symbol of transition.
The story begins at the sea side. Edna is first associated with water, it is when she is near the water that she begins this "awakening" process which she goes through. It is also interesting that at the moment when Edna suddenly learns to swim, marks a time of great change for Edna both emotionally/intellectually, as well physically in the direction her life takes.
Though I cannot find the exact quote now, I thought I remember a scene in which Edna gave Robert credit for her learning how to swim, which as the story unfolds can be interpreted in a few different ways.
Not too far into the story yet, but while I was reading last night, it seems to me the word "solitude" kept popping up. Am I correct in that?
I think that Edna loves her quiet side of life, but at the same time wants more excitement,too.
Edna does begin to draw away from soceity more as well as from the people around her. She takes on certain asepcts of Mademoiselle Reisz who is truly the artist, as well as a recluse. But Edna does not have that same seriousness about her art as Reisz has. She is sort of balanced between Reisz and Ratignolle.
Edna does wish to seek more time for herself and does note wish to have to feel obligated to entertain others.
I do not see enough evidence on Edna being unstable. She is certainly not very strong. In real life, if there is a soulmate for her to speak to things could have a different outcome in the end. On "years of repression", it's a matter of perspective. There are many women who will want what Edna had, a husband who cared for the family and did love her in his own ways, two lovely children, social circle. She didn't have many friends, but really, how many people around us have many friends anyway ? If she had not known what she wanted from her life in her earlier marriage years, could we say that she was repressed ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Dark Muse, I like how you have expanded on this swimming/water theme. Good to point out the symbolic meanings attached to water; they fit this story perfectly. I recall one very early scene, when Edna sits against the shower/changing house wall and stares out at the sea. It seemed then the connection was being made and this was the beginning of her awakening, or at least her feelings of restlessness that lead to it. I believe that was the same scene, when she verbalised the story of her dream as a young girl; I refer to the one in the field, that felt to her like swimming. I will review that part of the book tonight, to made sure I am recalling that accurately. I should quote the exact passage. Just too tired and lazy to do so tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
I think this is the exact time that she suddenly feels unrestricted and free, feelings she has never before allowed herself to be in touch with. Also, she is in control now of her own being, her own body, in the vast, unrestricted freedom of the water. This water begins to free her spirit.Quote:
It is also interesting that at the moment when Edna suddenly learns to swim, marks a time of great change for Edna both emotionally/intellectually, as well physically in the direction her life takes.
Lynne, I will look through my book to pick up the repetition of the word 'solitude'. I think that is significant. I think that all along' Edna has been in the company of people: husband, children, proper friends, society, etc, and yet, she has been very much 'alone', in a 'negative' state of solitude. Now she is finding her own space and entering into another state of solitude; one of personal freedom, potenially a 'positive' state of being. In this way, Dark Muse is right; she falls somewhere between the two creative women she associates with. As you put it, DM...
Quote by Amethyst2010Quote:
She is sort of balanced between Reisz and Ratignolle
Amethyst, I think now what I wrote previously was unclear. I merely thought Edna suffered, at first, from a quiet, passive sort of depression; this being prior to her awakening. As she became more herself and awakened, it was her husband who perceived her 'unbalanced' and asked the doctor to observe her; it was the doctor who saw her altered; but he saw that she was new, more alive, vibrant. I didn't mean to indicate I thought Edna truly unbalanced. I just thought, at the start of the story, she was a little 'depressed', due to her repressed position in life, being hemmed in, trapped, and unable to find any pleasure or happiness in her own being or delight in the natural world about her.Quote:
I do not see enough evidence on Edna being unstable. She is certainly not very strong. In real life, if there is a soulmate for her to speak to things could have a different outcome in the end. On "years of repression", it's a matter of perspective. There are many women who will want what Edna had, a husband who cared for the family and did love her in his own ways, two lovely children, social circle. She didn't have many friends, but really, how many people around us have many friends anyway ? If she had not known what she wanted from her life in her earlier marriage years, could we say that she was repressed ?