Richard II - Act IV

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Agreed. And there is something comical about it. I don't know if it was intended to be funny but it is.

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No, it isn't quite funny--at least not hilariously so--but it is rather absurd. It's like those arguments where everyone is talking over each other and the conversation just becomes noise.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Oh I don't think I called him just. I thought I've implied that he's Machiavelian through out this.

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Machiavelian is a good word. Maybe a little strong, but yeah he's certainly ambitious and scheming.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

:lol::lol: That is so funny. I will have to do the same. While I was reading all I could think was what other choice did Aumerle have but to fight.

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I suppose there really wasn't any other option for Aumerle. I just like the way he loses his head in indignation, and the great retort he comes back with: "I have a thousand spirits... to answer twenty thousand such as you".

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Actually the thought just occurred to me. This is what one would have expected of Richard. But Richard gives up without fight at all, not even a defense of his person. Aumerle here is in stark contrast to Richard and that is no accident. Shakespeare wanted us to have this contrast.

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It is a contrast. Aumerle is not taking this sitting down as Richard would.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I don't think we know. It's completely ambiguous.

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Hopelessly ambiguous, maybe. For me it doesn't matter so much. The scene works whether Aumerle is a guilty or not. It's the atmosphere of contention that's important, and not any individual charge.

Thankfully Henry IV doesn't have this much back story. I think we'll have a little easier time with that one.

Two fnal points about Act IV. First the transition of the Kingship from Richard to Bolingbroke is done in a ceromony with a religious context. This notion of ceremony has been suggested in several places in the play. I think here it reaches a climax with both men holding the crown and moving it from one man to the other. Notice the language:

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KING RICHARD II
Alack, why am I sent for to a king,
Before I have shook off the regal thoughts
Wherewith I reign'd? I hardly yet have learn'd
To insinuate, flatter, bow, and bend my limbs:
Give sorrow leave awhile to tutor me
To this submission. Yet I well remember
The favours of these men: were they not mine?
Did they not sometime cry, 'all hail!' to me?
So Judas did to Christ: but he, in twelve,
Found truth in all but one: I, in twelve thousand, none.
God save the king! Will no man say amen?
Am I both priest and clerk? well then, amen.
God save the king! although I be not he;
And yet, amen, if heaven do think him me.
To do what service am I sent for hither?

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Priest, clerk, Christ, amen, heaven. And further down:

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KING RICHARD II
Ay, no; no, ay; for I must nothing be;
Therefore no no, for I resign to thee.
Now mark me, how I will undo myself;
I give this heavy weight from off my head
And this unwieldy sceptre from my hand,
The pride of kingly sway from out my heart;
With mine own tears I wash away my balm,
With mine own hands I give away my crown,
With mine own tongue deny my sacred state,
With mine own breath release all duty's rites:
All pomp and majesty I do forswear;
My manors, rents, revenues I forego;
My acts, decrees, and statutes I deny:
God pardon all oaths that are broke to me!
God keep all vows unbroke that swear to thee!
Make me, that nothing have, with nothing grieved,
And thou with all pleased, that hast all achieved!
Long mayst thou live in Richard's seat to sit,
And soon lie Richard in an earthly pit!
God save King Harry, unking'd Richard says,
And send him many years of sunshine days!
What more remains?

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Rites, pomp, balm, sacred state. All language of ceremony. And at the end when the two clergymen are discussing what transpired they again talk in language of ceremony:

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Abbot
A woeful pageant have we here beheld.

BISHOP OF CARLISLE
The woe's to come; the children yet unborn.
Shall feel this day as sharp to them as thorn.

DUKE OF AUMERLE
You holy clergymen, is there no plot
To rid the realm of this pernicious blot?

Abbot
My lord,
Before I freely speak my mind herein,
You shall not only take the sacrament
To bury mine intents, but also to effect
Whatever I shall happen to devise.
I see your brows are full of discontent,
Your hearts of sorrow and your eyes of tears:
Come home with me to supper; and I'll lay
A plot shall show us all a merry day.

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Perhaps a black mass sort of ceremony, depending on one's point of view.

One other pont I wanted to make about Act IV. I truly feel pity for Richard. He certainly has not been a good king, but I feel his pain. Sure there is self pity but when he is forced to read and acknowledge his flaws his reaction is heart felt.

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NORTHUMBERLAND
No more, but that you read
These accusations and these grievous crimes
Committed by your person and your followers
Against the state and profit of this land;
That, by confessing them, the souls of men
May deem that you are worthily deposed.

KING RICHARD II
Must I do so? and must I ravel out
My weaved-up folly? Gentle Northumberland,
If thy offences were upon record,
Would it not shame thee in so fair a troop
To read a lecture of them? If thou wouldst,
There shouldst thou find one heinous article,
Containing the deposing of a king
And cracking the strong warrant of an oath,
Mark'd with a blot, damn'd in the book of heaven:
Nay, all of you that stand and look upon,
Whilst that my wretchedness doth bait myself,
Though some of you with Pilate wash your hands
Showing an outward pity; yet you Pilates
Have here deliver'd me to my sour cross,
And water cannot wash away your sin.

NORTHUMBERLAND
My lord, dispatch; read o'er these articles.

KING RICHARD II
Mine eyes are full of tears, I cannot see:
And yet salt water blinds them not so much
But they can see a sort of traitors here.
Nay, if I turn mine eyes upon myself,
I find myself a traitor with the rest;
For I have given here my soul's consent
To undeck the pompous body of a king;
Made glory base and sovereignty a slave,
Proud majesty a subject, state a peasant.

NORTHUMBERLAND
My lord,--

KING RICHARD II
No lord of thine, thou haught insulting man,
Nor no man's lord; I have no name, no title,
No, not that name was given me at the font,
But 'tis usurp'd: alack the heavy day,
That I have worn so many winters out,
And know not now what name to call myself!
O that I were a mockery king of snow,
Standing before the sun of Bolingbroke,
To melt myself away in water-drops!
Good king, great king, and yet not greatly good,
An if my word be sterling yet in England,
Let it command a mirror hither straight,
That it may show me what a face I have,
Since it is bankrupt of his majesty.

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My sympathies go completely over to Richard here. And where did his imprisonment come from. Seems like it was not part of the deal and a complete shock to Richard. Perhaps he was bamboozled. The whole thing is sad and I lost any liking for Bolingbroke.

I guess we can move on to Act V if poeple wish. Scarlett was going to talk about the Bishop's prophesy. If any one wants to pick up on that given that Scarlett will no longer be with us, go ahead.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Two fnal points about Act IV.

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My god, you have more? I thought you were going to duck out of the Act IV discussion pretty early when you said "Hopefully act IV will be quick since it only has one scene." I'm game for anything, of course, but I do want to get through Act IV and V soon since we got the Henry IV threads already set up.

Well, now I'm done with Act IV. :D

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Well, now I'm done with Act IV. :D

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I'll try to respond before I sign off tonight.

Wooo, hold up, guys! I just realised there is one big significant thing I wish to point out about this act and the succession scene. Didn't Henry and his subjects request that Richard sign a document confessing the offenses he committed during his rule? It seemed, that after he refuses to do this, then rants and raves on about it in disgust and self-pity bordering on martyism (sp?); that is when Bollingbroke sits listening for a time patiently and then he does abruptly send Richard off to the tower to be detained. I don't think it was ever Bollingbroke's intention of murdering Richard, although it was stated by one person, the murderer, that he had wished it and would rather Richard were dead. However, 'wishing' something does not make one the murderer. I felt at the end, that Henry was actually shocked and regretful, that Richard were indeed brought to him in this cofin. At least that is how the expressions read in the movie verison of the play I am watching and that does follow the text pretty closely. Interpretation, of course is individual. We can discuss the ending in that respective thread.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Rites, pomp, balm, sacred state. All language of ceremony. And at the end when the two clergymen are discussing what transpired they again talk in language of ceremony:

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That's a good observation. The language seems to be reinforcing what Henry is trying to effect in this scene: a ceremonious transfer of power.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

One other pont I wanted to make about Act IV. I truly feel pity for Richard. He certainly has not been a good king, but I feel his pain. Sure there is self pity but when he is forced to read and acknowledge his flaws his reaction is heart felt.

My sympathies go completely over to Richard here.

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I don't really like either of the characters in this scene. Henry is a little too glib and Richard is throwing a fit. Neither of them is particularly appealing. Later in the play I do become more sympathetic to Richard, though.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

And where did his imprisonment come from. Seems like it was not part of the deal and a complete shock to Richard. Perhaps he was bamboozled. The whole thing is sad and I lost any liking for Bolingbroke

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I think Richard would be bamboozled by just about anything at this point. He's quite unhinged here. Henry imprisons him because he needs Richard to justify the transfer of power. If he didn't people might not accept Henry as the new King.

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Originally Posted by Janine

I don't think it was ever Bollingbroke's intention of murdering Richard, although it was stated by one person, the murderer, that he had wished it and would rather Richard were dead. However, 'wishing' something does not make one the murderer. I felt at the end, that Henry was actually shocked and regretful, that Richard were indeed brought to him in this cofin. At least that is how the expressions read in the movie verison of the play I am watching and that does follow the text pretty closely. Interpretation, of course is individual. We can discuss the ending in that respective thread.

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No, I don't believe Henry was really trying to murder Richard. As I was saying above, the imprisonment has more to do with coercing Richard into accepting Henry's terms than it does with murder. Richard's death does come as an unwelcome shock to Henry, and I don't think his remorse is feigned at the end.

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Originally Posted by Quark

I don't really like either of the characters in this scene. Henry is a little too glib and Richard is throwing a fit. Neither of them is particularly appealing. Later in the play I do become more sympathetic to Richard, though.

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Throwing a fit? He's being forced to abdicate the thrown. Except for death there can be nothing worse, and to many death may have been the preferred option.

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I think Richard would be bamboozled by just about anything at this point. He's quite unhinged here. Henry imprisons him because he needs Richard to justify the transfer of power. If he didn't people might not accept Henry as the new King.

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Yes, but I think Henry plotted this all along. There was nothing Richard could do that would satisfy a new king. If Richard were banished, as he expects and is promised and parallels the Act I banishments of Bolingbroke and Mowbray, Richard could come back with a new army and retake the thrown like Bolingbroke just did, and he would have the divine right argument that could galvanize the public. No matter what Richard signs, it's just a piece of paper and he could later claim he was forced to sign it. No Richard must die and Henry knows it and carries it out very machiavellian.

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No, I don't believe Henry was really trying to murder Richard. As I was saying above, the imprisonment has more to do with coercing Richard into accepting Henry's terms than it does with murder. Richard's death does come as an unwelcome shock to Henry, and I don't think his remorse is feigned at the end.

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You two give Henry too much credit. To take the crown requires deviousness. Period. You can either believe every thing magically falls into his lap or he manipulates the situation for his gain. I'm cynical here.

Whoa! Are we still on Act IV? Should I answer these comments later tonight? or tomorrow? I hope everyone did not progress to Act V and leave me standing here in the dust.

I don't know if we're on any Act right now. I think we may just be pausing right now. I've got a lot to do for the end of the semester and probably won't be able to post anything sizable for another nine or ten days. I'd like to get a chance to say something on Act V, though.

I will conclude my thoughts this week on Act V. There's not that much left to say. Quark post your Act V thoughts on the Act V thread, not here.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I will conclude my thoughts this week on Act V. There's not that much left to say. Quark post your Act V thoughts on the Act V thread, not here.

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Virgil, but your post, before this one, seemed to just sit there and no one really answered it; I had wanted to respond before we went onto Act V. Should I do so today? Whoa, we are swamped in the L thread now. Have a bit of turn-out or what? I am trying to catch up there myself, with responses to posts. I was glad to see you show up and post; good points you brought out. It is so hot here, I am ready to keel over. It is over 90 F today and I can open only one window upstairs; no AC yet. Needless to say, I don't know how long I will hold up on this computer either; it generates it's own heat; so I may have to shut down early tonight.

Oh feel free to Janine. I won't post anything for a few days.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Oh feel free to Janine. I won't post anything for a few days.

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Ok, good; maybe this heat will be gone by then. I can hardly think; I feel dizzy and delerious. It's this still air, no circulation upstairs and it's totally humid. I did get three back windows open finally; but they are half screens, so it is not doing much good. Thanks for giving me a few days on my response to your comment above. It will most likely be brief, anyway.