Living without religions

No, I have to strongly side with Billyjack, the world would be a much better place without religion. It would be much better if a personal philosophy of goodness was used instead of an authoritarian religious system of values. Maybe the question we should ask is: did God create man or did man create God, and if so why?

skasianThe bible accounts that the world existed around 4000years ago, and in this basis from the beginning mankind served God, therefore religion always has been with mankind from Creation.

But you don't believe that do you? You're not one of those creationist types (no offence intended) are you? We were getting along so well... :confused:

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Originally Posted by Neely

No, I have to strongly side with Billyjack, the world would be a much better place without religion. It would be much better if a personal philosophy of goodness was used instead of an authoritarian religious system of values.

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Actually the world would be a better place without politics, money, without humans at all.

Alas! Yes! The world would be a much better place without humanity. Religion can be a tool to destroy, but its also a tool that gives a lot of joy and happiness to many humans. Absence of religion is not total happiness or eudaimonia for all humans. To believe that is to be a rather naive.

Just take a look at the world history. Most conflicts and war since the beginning of man have been either politically or ethnical or economical motivated. I agree with you on that there is a great deal problems and issues with authoritarian and organized religions. Regarding creationism. Personally i dont believe that the earth were created for 6000 years ago, nor that Darwin is "satanic scientist", because that is to be honest, pardon the language, a bunch of bull****.

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Originally Posted by lupe

shhhhh.... don't wake up Skasian and NikolaiI, please. Their conversation is so touching! :as-sleep:

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Wake up, lupe. :)

You are in the universe.

say this to yourself a million times, a billion times. "I am in the universe."

You are in the universe, and this means you cannot die, you have always lived, and you will never suffer, because you are being pulled toward the relief of suffering. No matter what it is you crave. Everyone is somewhere between completely insane and completely enlightened. My words - God is real - Peace will occur - even if these are not things you wish to believe, no matter who you are or what you are, you are somewhere between insane and completely enlightened. God is real, I believe, I am not saying I am completely enlightened, but all enlightenment comes from God. Now you would be completely illogical to call the statement: all enlightenment comes from God, illogical.

But perhaps this is too far beyond you. I don't mean to insult you.

But let me explain this to you very simply. The main problem people have in this life is trying to get power. But why are you trying to get power? You are a drop in the ocean. You are part of the universe. You are eternal and you are part of everything. You are part of a flowing ocean. Why do you wish for anything? There is no reason to lament for anything because nothing dies. Everything exists in the Lord, and so it comes from and enters into the Lord, always.

You atheists think you are so correct, but I should tell you: this universe is infinite. There are worlds above us, where people are enlightened, which are called spiritual realms. There are worlds below us, where people live in torment, they are called worlds of suffering. This is a simple fact and truth.

Sri Aurobindo said it this way; "The earliest formula of Wisdom promises to be its last, -- God, Light, Freedom, Immortality."

What are we? What is the universe? One thing we can know is that we are not separate from the universe. Einstein put it this way:

"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."

This is exactly what I believe too. We can transcend our own life and soul to embrace the rest of humanity as well. Only then can we see things as they truly are; in each thing and without reflected the divine, and the beauty of the divine.

We are created by the universe; that is, we are created by the same force, or in the same fires, perhaps, as the rest of creation; that is, the stars, the star systems, and everything in the cosmos. This is why our nature is the same as the nature of those beautiful star systems we see in the cosmos. Again, we are simply a part of the universe, or to understand it differently, part of a flowing system, like water in a river or on a drainpipe. As Eintsein says, "experience the whole of nature in its beauty." This is the vast assortment of experience and dreams, and the fact that reality is greater than dreams, because how could something (dreams) come from something which it was greater than? In fact, life's ultimate goal is about finding perfection, or in otherwise, solidified or concreting the feeling, dream, or ideal of Love. The mystics do not have mathematically formulas, they only have teachings in parables and works in philosophy. And yet the truth the mystics describe absolutely genuine.

[QUOTE=Saladin;655008]Actually the world would be a better place without politics, money, without humans at all.

Alas! Yes! The world would be a much better place without humanity. Religion can be a tool to destroy, but its also a tool that gives a lot of joy and happiness to many humans. Absence of religion is not total happiness or eudaimonia for all humans. To believe that is to be a rather naive.


Oh, I am under no pretention that the removal of religion would bring world peace at all. Not to mention the ridiculous idea of "removing" a belief in the first place. Maybe a time will arise in the future when such things are not needed, but I doubt it.

You almost succeded to put me to sleep with your illuminating pseudo-philosophies. And I didn't even start to say "I

You almost succeeded to put me to sleep with your illuminating pseudo-philosophies. And I didn't even start to say "I'm in the universe" a billion times...

But I'm so happy I know somebody who knows the "simple fact and truth".

Lupe this world, and your life or my life or anyone's life in it, exists from the power of intention. This is what governs everything. You can call it the power of intention, suggestion, or the law of attraction, karma, or anything. It's what exists. Whatever any person thinks of, it has some reality. And if you combined every person's ideas, it would not encompass everything which exists.

The universe is more vast than we can imagine. You called what I had to say "pseudo-philosohpy" and you said it almost put you to sleep. I'm sorry but your negative intention or suggestion will not affect me in the least. I was only trying to share with you - if you don't wish to hear anything I have to say - as is evident - it won't affect me but I won't try to speak to you anymore.

What can any person alive say execpt to share what they view. Every person alive has had many similar experiences, experiences of delight, sadness ... this forum is simply for communication and if you are in a bad mood there's nothing I can say to help you. Every person's opinion is valid and has something to learn from, and if you can't open your mind to that it is not my limitation.

NkolaiI, if you don't like humour or sarcasm, I have some great books to recommend. You can start with any Aristophanes...

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Originally Posted by Neely

Maybe the question we should ask is: did God create man or did man create God, and if so why?

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look at all the contradictions in the bible regarding the personality of god: he's forgiving, but he'll damn you to hell; you must fear him, but you must love him; salvation lies in faith, but a miracle here or there never hurt anyone; dont practice cannibalism, but you can eat my son on sundays; you're will is free, but i'll be watching you every step of the way. either god is fickle or he's a man made

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Originally Posted by Saladin

Reversed: [I]You dont like lobster, so you think everybody doesn`t like lobster.

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nah. i dont like lobster and it frightens me that most do would be more fitting. its not a matter of taste (although religion does certainly offend my taste), more a matter of moral progress and a secured future for humanity

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Originally Posted by Saladin

What i mean about God and religion? Well i consider religion to be a private issue, but i would say i agree with what the great scandinavian (danish) philosopher Kierkegaard said and i think both Nikolai and skasian would agree.

"A mans life is wasted when he lives on, so deceived by the joys of life
or by its sorrows, that he never becomes decisively conscious of himself
as spirit, as self, that is, he never is aware in the deepest sense that
there is a God."

- Søren Kierkegaard

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Kierkegaard's "god" in this quote of yours isn't the one you're thinking of. its the existentialist god: the man who defines his own existence, Kierkegaard's knight of faith. its poetic and resembles nothing to the christian "god the father"

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Originally Posted by Saladin

Actually the world would be a better place without politics, money, without humans at all.

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blasphemy. as if the universe made a mistake in evolving humanity. feel free to barter for your sustenance. and good luck taking a shower or doing anything resembling your civilized life without politics and government

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Originally Posted by Saladin

Religion can be a tool to destroy, but its also a tool that gives a lot of joy and happiness to many humans. Absence of religion is not total happiness or eudaimonia for all humans. To believe that is to be a rather naive.

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religion is inherently corrupt and irrational. of course it brings happiness to some, this is undeniable. that's not an argument though. i could say the same of alcohol, drugs, ramblin, gamblin, and backbitin. i didn't read anyone say anti-theism would result in a utopia or total happiness (neither of these have ever existed and never will).

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Originally Posted by Saladin

Just take a look at the world history. Most conflicts and war since the beginning of man have been either politically or ethnical or economical motivated.

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not motivated. rather, involved. the motivation 9 times outa 10 is religious. whether it be blatantly religious like the radical islam's war on everyone else, or subtly religious in the form of underlying religious principles guiding our actions: eye for an eye, praise of martyrdom, following a leader unquestionably, fear, chompin at the bit to die (72 virgins, heaven), chosen peoples syndrome, nationalism, ect...

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Originally Posted by NikolaiI

Your words are simple and also explained it better than I can. The whole point or the only main point I wished to really point out was that since God is the source of beauty, wisdom... to make him the center of our lives creates a change, which is, now our lives have peace and God at their center. Also, our relationship with God is our life, or it is more than simply life, since God is the source of all life.

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I agree with your views. I have a question, is it ok to consider that God is everything except for impurities or any kind of evil? I used to consider this, but how can I put God in the bottom line as "is everything"? Or is it God can be everything or God is like everything?

[QUOTE=skasian;655545]I agree with your views. I have a question, is it ok to consider that God is everything except for impurities or any kind of evil? I used to consider this, but how can I put God in the bottom line as "is everything"? Or is it God can be everything or God is like everything?[/QUO

Since everything comes from God and in point of fact even evil too can not be excluded from ' everything' .

Then it is construed that both good and evil are sheer illusions. In fact saints will also use up their saintliness in the course of time and sinners will be cleansed or purged of their sin or profanities.

In fact at the lower level there are sinners and saints are different forces or attributes but at the highest or deepest level there are no sinners.

To understand this fact we need a greater understanding.

[QUOTE=blazeofglory;655785]

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Originally Posted by skasian

I agree with your views. I have a question, is it ok to consider that God is everything except for impurities or any kind of evil? I used to consider this, but how can I put God in the bottom line as "is everything"? Or is it God can be everything or God is like everything?[/QUO

Since everything comes from God and in point of fact even evil too can not be excluded from ' everything' .

Then it is construed that both good and evil are sheer illusions. In fact saints will also use up their saintliness in the course of time and sinners will be cleansed or purged of their sin or profanities.

In fact at the lower level there are sinners and saints are different forces or attributes but at the highest or deepest level there are no sinners.

To understand this fact we need a greater understanding.

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I have seen that you use the term saints a couple of times. What is your definition and depiction of saints? I am unfamiliar with saints, and I depict them as souls that live closely with God in God's Kingdom, and historic people that dedicated their lives devoting to God during their times in earth. Nothing else. I am not sure if Catholics have strong connections with them or not, and I am not sure about their roles in Christian religion at all.

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Originally Posted by lupe

NkolaiI, if you don't like humour or sarcasm, I have some great books to recommend. You can start with any Aristophanes...

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Have you read Hearts in Atlantis? Read it.

'Deus est mortuari iuvare mortatem'