Personal Responsibility

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

II buy junk food, and eat it of my own free will, but the company should be held accountable for the choices I made, because if they did not sell the food then I could not go and buy it. So it is not may fault).

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I think social paternalism is another issue. I have cut down a great deal on junk food, if not processed food--but do you really see the flip side of the coin? In black neighborhoods, junk food and take out lines every corner, because processed corn and trans fat is cheap. Produce is not, and has to be traveled to to purchase farther out from the home territory.

I don't think it is as black and white as you'd like to make it. Should Micky D's be sued? No, but the food industry isn't entirely blameless for the fact that Americans are diabetic and sick from corn fructose.

Yes, there is another side to the issue, but the people who actually wanted to start the lawsuit were not growing in poor neighborhoods, they were people who had options to eat better food, but they choose not to, and then when the obesity epidemic come up, they thought. "Hey maybe I can find a way to profit over the fact that I am fat and lazy by my own actions, I don't have to be responsible, I can blame someone else"

Another little example of more along the lines of what I am getting at here.

Some years ago, there was this big water park out here, and a group of high school girls were there for something, and they had adult chaperones with them, and on one of the big water slides there was an "accident" the reason so called accident occurred was because the girls were not obeying the posted rules, and the chaperones were present when it happened.

On one of the slides, there was a sign posted with the rules, which stated, only one person at a time. But about 15 of them got together and decided to all go at once. And when they did the slide collapsed.

After it happened there was a bunch of outrage against the water park, and wanting it closed down and threats for lawsuits.

Did anyone once think to blame the girls who were inappropriately using the equipment and ignoring clearly posted rules, or the chaperones who were there when it happened. No, it was all the fault of the water park and they all thought they were owed something.

The slide would have been perfectly safe if it was being used in the way it was intended to be used. Those that were involved in the "accident" were directly responsible for it happening, so I do not think any of them, or any of their families deserved a single dime from the park.

The water slide incident is a far cry from what you were saying about "victimhood". You were propounding the philosophy of "the survival of the fittest", and taking a very hard line about people being able to change their circumstances. Incidentally, surely the slide incident, daft as it is, should be praised by you. The "I can do it, so why can't everyone else?" attitude is surely nearer the idiots claiming compensation for their predicament. If they can make a buck from their situation, then why shouldn't they? If the park owner goes out of business, then tough. It's the survival of the fittest, dog eat dog, etc. etc. Darwin's theory of natural selection is being taken to an absurd extreme here, but do you see what I mean? The line you're taking, which offers no flexibility, was taken to the nth degree in Nazi Germany. The "survival of the fittest" in their terms would have had Darwin spinning in his grave. The very phrase has become abhorrent. As this is primarily a literature site, perhaps with Christmas coming up, you could read A Christmas Carol, where Scrooge sums up that theory well, with his comment on decreasing the surplus population. Or perhaps Hard Times, with Gradgrind's mantra about cold, hard facts. Where does human frailty come in your scheme of things?

People are different, what is easy for you may not be that easy for others. When I was in high school, I did't understand why some people couldn't understand math. It came so easily for me, I didn't even need to study. But I used to try and teach my friends, and even though we stayed for hours studying, they still didn't get good grades. They made more effort than I, but I got better grades. When I was in college, I just couldn't learn physics. I did all the exercises, studied a lot, read the book over and over, but still I couldn't get it. It just wasn't in me. Then I understood my high school friends. At work too, we see that some people welcome changes, while others always want things to remain the same. That's because for them, it is more difficult to adjust to changes. People ARE different. I think we should encourage others to overcome their difficulties, but not judge them if they can't.

I totally keep the same opinion to you . It can also a question of attitude about life,is you positive toward you life,your enviroument,things happened to you or passive just complain and stay the same place would not like to change it. I am kind of belongs to the latter type, and usully blame myself, hey you!cheer up! complain just doesn't work.

And i want to make friend with people who speaks English and loves liturature so much, i am a chinese girl. If anybody see my message,please reply to me. I will be very honered.

I totally keep the same opinion to you . It can also a question of attitude about life,is you positive toward you life,your enviroument,things happened to you or passive just complain and stay the same place would not like to change it. I am kind of belongs to the latter type, and usully blame myself, hey you!cheer up! complain just doesn't work.

And i want to make friend with people who speaks English and loves liturature so much, i am a chinese girl. If anybody see my message,please reply to me. I will be very honered.

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Originally Posted by wessexgirl

The water slide incident is a far cry from what you were saying about "victimhood". You were propounding the philosophy of "the survival of the fittest", and taking a very hard line about people being able to change their circumstances.

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Well it is true I have no sympathy for "weak" people, and when I say "weak" here I will clarify I mean people who have no mental or physical disabilities, people who are mentally capable and physically healthy, who choose to be inept in their own life because they want someone else to take care of them. Because they do not want to make any real decision in their own life, and all they want to do is complain about the state they are in, while not taking any steps to change it, when in fact there are options they could do in order to improve the situation.

There are people who do choose 'victim hood' who find it easier to view themselves as a victim then to make any true efforts of their own.

For instance, I had a friend who was always complaining about his life, and his job, and he was a very intelligent person, college educate, multiple degrees, but instead of actually doing anything, he just said, he took on this whole attitude that he was being oppressed by society, and it was the fault of the "man" that he was so unhappy and that his life sucked.

He had options, he could have gotten a new job, instead of complain everyday about the job he did not like. But he choose instead to view his problems as a product of society and because society was the way it was, he was a "slave to the system" and being "kept down"

That is a bunch of bull, he just was not self-motivated to get up and do something about it.

And I got tired of listening to it after a while.

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Originally Posted by absurda

People are different, what is easy for you may not be that easy for others. When I was in high school, I did't understand why some people couldn't understand math. It came so easily for me, I didn't even need to study. But I used to try and teach my friends, and even though we stayed for hours studying, they still didn't get good grades. They made more effort than I, but I got better grades. When I was in college, I just couldn't learn physics. I did all the exercises, studied a lot, read the book over and over, but still I couldn't get it. It just wasn't in me. Then I understood my high school friends. At work too, we see that some people welcome changes, while others always want things to remain the same. That's because for them, it is more difficult to adjust to changes. People ARE different. I think we should encourage others to overcome their difficulties, but not judge them if they can't.

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Life is not all about everything being easy. Life is about sometimes have to do something that is hard, and sometimes having to have a struggle. And not just saying "oh well it is too hard, so it is not my responsibility if to do it, it is not my fault, if it is too hard to do"

I have always been horrible at math. But guess what, I still had to take, and pass college math classes. I struggled with math throughout all my school year, even had tutors, but that did not change the fact, I had to bust my arse and do what I needed to do if I wanted to pass, because I would not be able to graduate without the math classes having a passing grade. So I did what I had to do. I did not blame the school for making me take math classes just because they were hard, I did not expect anyone else to fix the problem for me. I do did not think I was owed any special rights just because it was hard for me.

I bucked up and got it done.

Hey Muse I know what you mean with those who always complain but sometimes their complaints just go unheard despite them having merit or not. I have a friend with a few degrees in chemistry with tons of experience but just could not find a good job. There are some elements of luck involved that is not always up to the person. No matter how hard you try sometimes it does not guarantee success and if you are not being treated fairly why should you not complain? Do you know how difficult it is for black women in this country to secure the same positions as their counterparts?

Well I have respect for those who actually take action and responsibility for attempting to change their circumstances, my arguments are aimed at those who want to complain but never actually do anything about it.

There is a difference between the person who is acutally out there doing something but not getting anywhere

and the person who is contantly complaining about the same things over and over, but instead of looking for a new job, they sitting in front of the TV and just talking about how much everything in their life sucks.

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Originally Posted by Ohmyscience

Hey Muse I know what you mean with those who always complain but sometimes their complaints just go unheard despite them having merit or not. I have a friend with a few degrees in chemistry with tons of experience but just could not find a good job. There are some elements of luck involved that is not always up to the person. No matter how hard you try sometimes it does not guarantee success and if you are not being treated fairly why should you not complain? Do you know how difficult it is for black women in this country to secure the same positions as their counterparts?

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I don't believe it. If he can't find a job with several science deggrees he's doing something wrong.

We are humanized by our weaknesses .

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I am huge believer in and proponent of personal responsibility. I am really quite ruthless when it comes to my belief and advocacy of personal responsibility. It is one of the reasons why I am not often very compassionate or sympathetic to listen to others complain about their problems. Because I believe that more often then not the individual is personally responsible for the situation they find themselves in. Either because of past actions they took, or because of actions they refuse to take, because it is easier to just complain and wallow in self pity and have others pat you on the back and tell you it is not your fault.

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I think one of the biggest problems in the world today is the fact that nobody holds any one accountable for anything anymore. Whatever happens, people have to try and blame some outside force for it, or others excuse them, by saying well it is not really thier fault, it is because of their environment, or society, or this that and the other thing, [/QUOTE]

I do really respect and appreciate strong-willed people ; poeple who assumes responsibility of their life and everything they do but I 've never had the same attitude towards other people .
I think they need help not blame.

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I do not believe in protecting people from themselves. If someone does something stupid, they deserve, and should, suffer the consequences of that action, no matter how sever the consequences are, that is how they will learn not to do it again. People should not be babied or parented by the government. Laws should not be made that solely focus around protecting a person from themselves. (i.e. the seatbelt law). If a person sticks their hand in fire, and gets burned, they should not have the right to sue some company because the company did not warn them that fire was hot.



oops no comment!!

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I am sick and tired of people being compensated, and viewed upon as victims of some "evil" because they lack any resemblance of common sense. I am also tired of people thinking they are owed something from someone else, if they do something stupid. No one looks at themselves any more and says "hey maybe this happened to me, because I acted like an idiot."

I am also tired of listening to people bellyache about circumstances in their life, which they do have the power to change, but they simply do not wish to take the steps to do so, because it would be too hard, and they rather just boo woo, and play the role of the victim, because it is easier and because others have gotten in the habit of accepting this, and patting you on the back and telling you it is not your fault instead of saying "hey why don't you get off your arse and actually do something about it."

You have these options. It might be a struggle, you might have to make certain sacrifices, and it won't be an easy road, but it will get you out of the current situation which you are unhappy with.

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People are a victim only of themselves and the fact that they are not willing to look themselves in the eye, and say, just why am I in this situation, in what ways am I reasonable for these circumstances, and what options do I have to take to change it.

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this is applied on mature people , who have self- awarness and they belieive in themselves ; I think what we really need is the belief in our power , in our ability to change . As a result I will be responsible .
How can u ask me to be responsible of what I have done when I consider my whole being a result of circumstances(familial,social ,political..).??

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How can u ask me to be responsible of what I have done when I consider my whole being a result of circumstances(familial,social ,political..).??[/B]

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If a person thinks that everything that happens in their life is the fault of some outside force, they should not be validated for that feeling, others should not further enable and support those ideas. They should not have their hand held and be told it really is not their fault.

They need to suffer the results of what happens to them, so they learn to take accountability of themselves. They need to be told to get over it, and grow up and take some responsibility for themselves.

They should not get a free pass because they want to play the act of the poor victim who does not have to be reasonable for anything that happens to them.

Nor should they be rewarded for such behavior and attitudes.

If people allow them to continue in this way, and no one exepcts them to acutally start taking accountablity for thier own lives, they will have no reason to change, and they will breed more ineffective members of society.

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If a person thinks that everything that happens in their life is the fault of some outside force, they should not be validated for that feeling, others should not further enable and support those ideas. They should not have their hand held and be told it really is not their fault.

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What I am saying is that we ashould ask ourselves why those people are irresponsible?
why are u very a responsible person? don't u think that u are risen by your family in a way that develop your sense of independence , strong will , you belief in your self ; I think they taught you that You MAKE your life , it does not make you .

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They need to suffer the results of what happens to them, so they learn to take accountability of themselves. They need to be told to get over it, and grow up and take some responsibility for themselves.

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suffering does not help ; the belief in themselves is what really helps.

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They should not get a free pass because they want to play the act of the poor victim who does not have to be reasonable for anything that happens to them.

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How can u Judge a person that he is playing that act of the poor victim : maybe he really believes so .

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Nor should they be rewarded for such behavior and attitudes.

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no one says " to be rewarded "!!

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acutally start taking accountablity for thier own lives, they will have no reas
If people allow them to continue in this way, and no one exepcts them to on to change, and they will breed more ineffective members of society.

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I agree with u on the goal but not on the means ; for their sake they need to change their life and the way they think of lit but not in that tough way .

Ok let me just ask you this. Would you really want your pay check, that you go to work to earn to go to support someone who does not think they can be held accountable for anything that happens in thier life, and do not think they have to be responseble for themselves, so they spend all thier time drinking beer and watching TV, without making an effort to get a job, becasue they beleive that everything that is wrong in thier life is the fault of goverment, or society, or thier childhood sucked, so they don't think they should have to acutally make any effort. They just want to sit around and complian without feeling they have any accountablity to do anything about it.

You want your money to finically support that person? Becasue it is not thier fault, in your view that they don't want to activiely do anything for themselves. They have the right to be supported by others.