So your going to change the world, but for whom?

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Originally Posted by Mr Hyde

And what has culture and education done in the many thousands of years that both have existed in changing anything other than help repeat the cycle of inequality?

How has human nature been changed?

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Well whether human nature has changed intrinsically or not is for me a futile and to be honest a pointless discussion, what matters is the revealed preference or rather outcome. So as Virgil mentioned, institutions now exist which guide our behavior towards an outcome which is optimal for the society. During Barbaric time I guess "might" in its literal sense was power and one could just about do anything (Plunder loot rape etc) however at present if you want power you have to be intellectually superior more than anything. That's why people like Hawkins have more power than let's say a WWF wrestler (no offense to any particular community)

As I said before,World is not equal and first of all i see absolutely no reason why it should be and second why is it bad to have an unequal world. I am, thank god, an academically successful guy (till now lol) and so i want to be rewarded for my gift. Equality can either mean equitable distribution, a thought which i find untenable and contrary to logic (it destroys motivation and promotes mediocrity) or it could mean giving each according to his abilities (how to do that, well that's where institution comes in and we are getting there).

I am a believer of the second type of equality. How efficiently we can choose to distribute/reward according to individual abilities is a justifiable question but its an operational question, a question on method and sure we can improve methods (our institutions are far better than before). So progress entails developing methodologies or mechanisms which allows society to efficiently reward people according to their abilities and also provides option to individuals to enhance their abilities. Marx thought it in one way and for 80 years or so we experimented with that, capitalism has its flaws and that's why we have welfare states (nordic) but even they have their flaws. So progress, my perspective, is striving for an ever better mechanism of providing the right incentives to individual and it is for the entire humanity.

(NB: Virgil Thanks a lot for your comments especially considering that they are coming from a veteran like you :). As for more people studying economics, it is true that economist believe in perfect competition but when it comes to their own turf they are firm believer of Monopoly LOL)

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Originally Posted by subterranean

Tell me, what's the goal of this whole discourse of yours?

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enough said.

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Originally Posted by subterranean

Tell me, what's the goal of this whole discourse of yours?

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To prove that most idealistic forms of worldly change are delusional.( That nothing changes.)

( Atleast that is my stance.)

However if you are on the defending side I suppose the point of this thread is to prove me wrong.

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however at present if you want power you have to be intellectually superior more than anything.

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Do you mean intellectually superior like this thread of mine that was so rudely moved away from the philosophical section of this website?

http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=38803

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That's why people like Hawkins have more power than let's say a WWF wrestler (no offense to any particular community)

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And yet human social behavior like days before still revolves around power.

Those who have power and those have none.

See how nothing changes...................

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As I said before,World is not equal and first of all i see absolutely no reason why it should be and second why is it bad to have an unequal world.

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I'm not saying it is bad. I'm merely pointing out humans to be the malicious,violent, selfish,greedy and egotistical maniacs that they are.

Infact that is the whole point of my thread.

( And most threads I create.)

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I am, thank god, an academically successful guy (till now lol) and so i want to be rewarded for my gift.

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Because through your personal prejudice you believe that your entitled to so much, right?

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Equality can either mean equitable distribution, a thought which i find untenable and contrary to logic (it destroys motivation and promotes mediocrity)

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Here we see human prejudice and emotional appeal of controlling others all the more through your economical perspective which you probally quantify as useful pragmatism.

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I am a believer of the second type of equality. How efficiently we can choose to distribute/reward according to individual abilities is a justifiable question but its an operational question, a question on method and sure we can improve methods (our institutions are far better than before). [B]So progress entails developing methodologies or mechanisms which allows society to efficiently reward people according to their abilities and also provides option to individuals to enhance their abilities.

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Through judgement of superiority and inferiority.

Somethings haven't change doesn't necessarily imply nothing has changed. Power is something that every human craves to some extent, it's a fact and there is very little we can do about it. However power over other human beings is a form of power that we crave. In earlier times that translated to, plundering, raping, dual and other form of violent acts that demonstrated power and probably that was the only outlet. Acknowledging our limitation is one thing, being dictated by it is quite another. At present scientific pursuit, conquering nature, athletics, business success and other forms of healthy competition exist that also allows us to satiate that thirst for power without any/negligible harmful affect.


I don't see how your exposition leads to "I'm merely pointing out humans to be the malicious,violent, selfish,greedy and egotistical maniacs ". How does unequal world makes us all those, its non sequitur. Selfish we are and thankfully so. I don't know if you have read Bertrand Russell's "Sceptical Essays", there is a chapter in that book called "Harm that good man do", pretty illuminating.

I am prejudicial no doubt and thats not the issue, its acknowledging it and trying to live with that limitation. We live in a system that rewards people who have more talents than other do (I am pragmatic like you too) and disproportionately too. Thank GOD, for me, I happen to be in this system per chance and to be honest I have every reason to be happy about it. But the key issue is "disproportionately rewards" and thats a fault with the system that I live in. 18th Century Capitalism was much worse than its current variant and I believe we can improve it even further. In 15th Century Knight in Shining armor was probably the in-thing to be, not anymore. So augmenting incentive system can greatly improve our (humanity) lives. I believe economics can help us do that and thats why I am studying it, apart from the fact that I love the subject and the paycheck is good too not to mention girls love to see a 'cool economics guy' (very rare to find).............well it seems i have other incentives too LOL

Just because human nature will never change doesn't mean no one will benefit from change and good and non-violence. Any change for the better in the world, no matter how small, has some effect. Maybe even if enough of us, make small, good changes in our life, we can make the world a better place. We all just have to work together. You probably disagree but hope and optimism are prime necessities for change...no matter how small that change may be.