I will wait for everyone to finish it. :)
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I will wait for everyone to finish it. :)
I do want to start the short story threads again. I have a good one for the Chekhov thread already picked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
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Originally Posted by Janine
Identify is probably too strong of a word. After all, Pavel and Bazarov are really only meant to be caricatures. I don't think I would really want to be either of them. But, it does make me smile when I catch myself acting like them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dori
Yeah, bah humbug - Snoopy rules!.... and so does Woodstock, CB, Lucy, Lional, etc, etc, etc. I sure hope my grandchild (to be) loves Snoopy, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
Oh, good, Scheherazade, 100 pages should go by quickly. I have been listening to another novel on audiobook and just reached the half-way mark, so I may stop here and pick up after F&S since it is a book I already read before. I hope I did not give much away in that paragraph I wrote about the room; that is not far into the book.
Quark, great! *sigh* I hope the one you have in-mind is on my audiobook set...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
True; I would agree with this to the greater extent. I also find it amusing sometimes, reading about what they each say to each other, or to the parents, since I can see how I might say the same or similiar thing, without realising it.Quote:
Identify is probably too strong of a word. After all, Pavel and Bazarov are really only meant to be caricatures. I don't think I would really want to be either of them. But, it does make me smile when I catch myself acting like them.
So, why do you guys think Arkadii likes Bazarov so much in the beginning? He calls him smart, but what else do you suppose makes Bazarov likeable to Arkadii?
Well, which ones are in your audiobook? Since it's probably only going to be the two of us talking for a while, I may as well pick a story that you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Do we know the ages of Arkadii and Bazarov? I get the feeling that Bazarov is slightly older (a year or two), maybe a little more experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
Quark, I think Arkady looks up to Bazarov, because Bazarov presents himself as being very 'sure of himself' and definite about what he believes in. Even though Arkady seems somewhat different, in temperment and disposition and maybe even deeply rooted beliefs, than Bazarov, I think that Arkady is drawn to B, because he represents something very unlike his past life (with his parents and uncle). Also, Bazarov represents the new form of thinking. This would be a time, in the lives of these two young men, when they feel the need to reject the old ways and rebell against them. Is this not evident, even today? I think Bazarov presents himself as a sort of prophet or leader of the new scientific way of thinking and nilistic views. Others are usually drawn easily to that sort of personality - they appear to attact, even in some mysterious way. If you notice Bazarov is a man of few words as a rule and this only enhances his mystique to Arkady.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
Oh thanks, Quark, for being so accomodating.Quote:
Well, which ones are in your audiobook? Since it's probably only going to be the two of us talking for a while, I may as well pick a story that you have.
These 12 ~ In the Ravine, Oh!The Public, The Chorus Girl, The Trousseau, A Shory Without a Title, Chidren, Misery, Fat and Thin, The Beggar, Hush!, The Orator, An Actor's End
Papayahed, I get the sense they are the same age, but that Bazarov seems to be older, because he projects a much more self-assured image than Arkady; at least in the beginning half of the book. I can't speak for the rest yet, since I didn't read past about half and I forget (from my earlier reading), just what his attitudes are by the end. I had the impression they were in the same school together and probably meet in the same class or classes. But it could be possible that B is older than Arkady. I don't think the text ever stated their ages at all, did it...does anyone know?Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
I'm not sure whether Bazarov is actually older, or whether it just seems that way to the reader. They both graduate at the same time, so that leads me to believe they must be very close to the same age. I think it might just appear that Bazarov is older because of his confidence and resolve.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
Yeah, I think Arkadii is looking to distance himself from his past life. He certainly realizes that things need to change around his father's land. Bazarov probably does attracts Arkadii because of his contrary opinions. In a few scenes, when Bazarov is challenging the older generation, Arkadii seems all too happy to echo Baz's radical notions. Also, I think you and Papayahed are right about Bazarov's confidence being important. Arkadii appears a little timid whereas Bazarov exudes a steady confidence. Although, I wonder whether this is really genuine confidence. Sometimes, Turgenev makes this self-reliance seem more like callousness than confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Janine, I hadn't thought about Bazarov's mysterious being a quality that the other characters liked. I had always considered this mysteriousness more of a ploy used by Turgenev to keep the reader guessing what Baz is going to do next or where Bazarov's ideas will lead him. From what I see, Arkadii thinks that he actually does understand Bazarov. Later on, though, he turns out to be sadly mistaken.
Of those, "The Ravine", I think, is best. Although, two of them I haven't read. I'll have to think about it over Christmas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Quark, did they actually say they both had just graduated? I thought I read that in the beginning. Since I am really busy decorating the house, etc...maybe you would be so kind to quote that passage for everyone's benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
So your book called him Arkadii; to Bazarov 'because of his contrary opinions', right? and the sense of youthful rebellion of sorts. That is a good way of phrasing it, when you said 'Arkadi seems all too happy to echo Baz's radical notions.' - yes, he almost sounds like a parrot sometimes, in mimicing Baz; it becomes humorous to some degree. Arkadii does seem more timid next to Bazarov - they seem to contrast nicely with each other. I feel that Arkadii isn't entirely against the old ways yet; nor is he totally insensitive to his father, as his father now believes. There is a certain natural 'pulling-away', a youth goes through from any parent, so I don't find that is so strange at all and I find it is just as valid today, as ever.Quote:
Yeah, I think Arkadii is looking to distance himself from his past life. He certainly realizes that things need to change around his father's land. Bazarov probably does attracts Arkadii because of his contrary opinions. In a few scenes, when Bazarov is challenging the older generation, Arkadii seems all too happy to echo Baz's radical notions. Also, I think you and Papayahed are right about Bazarov's confidence being important. Arkadii appears a little timid whereas Bazarov exudes a steady confidence. Although, I wonder whether this is really genuine confidence. Sometimes, Turgenev makes this self-reliance seem more like callousness than confidence.
I agree with your last two statements here. I think we will see some change in Bazorov's attitudes, as the second half of the story progresses.
Yes, because I had known someone like that once and he seemed to just have this certain allure of 'mystique' about him, that was a very attractive force for other people; one felt instantly drawn to him and you really could not say why, exactly. He also spoke with assurance and confidence and yet I always felt an underlying questioning in this person and I don't think he was nearly as secure or confident, as he would have make you believe he was. So this further supports your idea that you expressed in your last two sentences, of the first quoted post of yours.Quote:
Janine, I hadn't thought about Bazarov's mysterious being a quality that the other characters liked. I had always considered this mysteriousness more of a ploy used by Turgenev to keep the reader guessing what Baz is going to do next or where Bazarov's ideas will lead him. From what I see, Arkadii thinks that he actually does understand Bazarov. Later on, though, he turns out to be sadly mistaken.
Well, "The Ravine" is the title story for the audio cd set "The Ravine and other stories by Anton Chekhov", so it must be really good - the best one probably. It is narrated by Kenneth Branagh, so it should be something I would enjoy listening to; I would listen to him narrate the phone directory! He is a fine narrator and his "Richard III" is suberb, but that is with a full cast. :thumbs_up Of what I heard so far of the audiobooks Chekhov stories, he does the whole cast and it is quite interesting/amusing.Quote:
Of those, "The Ravine", I think, is best. Although, two of them I haven't read. I'll have to think about it over Christmas.
I must be terse for now; I have too much homework to write anything more detailed than the following.
I believe Bazarov is a very charismatic individual. In chapter V, Bazarov "made friends [with two farm boys] at once, and set off with them to a small swamp about a mile from the house to look for frogs." This perhaps is a mild demonstration of his charisma, but I think it also attests to his good interpersonal skills (which also plays a part in attracting 'pupils') . He was also confident; in chapter II Turgenev writes of Bazarov, "He showed Nikolai Petrovich his whole face...it was lighted up by a tranquil smile, and showed self-confidence and intellegence."Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
Dori, sometimes fewer, more 'select' words are better. You certainly hit upon several very good points here with specific references, to back up your ideas. I would agree entirely and the word 'charismatic' is an excellent one. Citing the example make perfect sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dori
Good luck with your homework! ;)
Definitely not, Evegeniy Vasilyevich Bazarov is the main character, whole plot about traditionalism and nihilism is on his back, that little yo-yo is really useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
In my opinion his only purpose is to reduce Arkady's possibility of free thinking and showing how Arkady cannot be a true nihilist and act in that way. HIs love to his father is too strong and he cannot control it like Bazarov can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
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Originally Posted by Quark
He is everything what Arkady wants to be; smart, liberal and open minded. He made Arkady to stop think in old provincial way.
Well, they are probably same age, they are at classes together.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
[QUOTE=Janine;497264]
I think Bazarov presents himself as a sort of prophet or leader of the new scientific way of thinking and nilistic views. Others are usually drawn easily to that sort of personality - they appear to attact, even in some mysterious way. If you notice Bazarov is a man of few words as a rule and this only enhances his mystique to Arkady.
[\QUOTE]
Agree.
Arkady is also afraid of challenging his father and uncle; his love toward them is stronger then his nihilistic ideas and that's the reason of his rift with Bazarov.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
Have you finished the novel?
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Originally Posted by bazarov
This sounds like something 'E V Bazarov' would say! :lol:Quote:
In my opinion his only purpose is to reduce Arkady's possibility of free thinking and showing how Arkady cannot be a true nihilist and act in that way. HIs love to his father is too strong and he cannot control it like Bazarov can.
Well, phrased!Quote:
He is everything what Arkady wants to be; smart, liberal and open minded. He made Arkady to stop think in old provincial way.
Later it does tell their age or Bazarov's, I believe. I think it was late 20's - maybe 28 or 9. I will look it up, but I don't have time presently.Quote:
Well, they are probably same age, they are at classes together.
Oh, good...:)Quote:
Agree.
I have not reached that part of the book yet, but feel it is eminent.Quote:
Arkady is also afraid of challenging his father and uncle; his love toward them is stronger then his nihilistic ideas and that's the reason of his rift with Bazarov.
Bazarov, I can only speak for myself - I am now about half way through the book; might be a little slow for me for now, until Christmas is over...I am so busy...therefore, please have patience...or if not, go on without me.Quote:
Have you finished the novel?
I try to back up whatever I can, because in my English teacher stresses that we should do so. I'm not very good at being succinct though. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Janine
I read it six months ago, so the story is still somewhat fresh in my mind. I'm reading it again and I only have about 60 or so pages left.Quote:
Originally Posted by bazarov
Dori, Absolutely, it is a good practice. In fact, usually in our Lawrence threads, we do post a lot of the text that applies to the idea(s), that we are trying to get across. You didn't do that here exactly, but I knew the part in the book you spoke of. I think the text is online and we can copy and past certain parts of it. I will check that out now. I know you were strapped for time (very understandable and so are most of us with the holidays approaching). I think you still did a fine job, backing up what you said and stating your ideas directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dori
Ahhh haaa, no wonder you are done the book so fast; well, good idea reading it again. I do that usually, if I have read the book before. I have to refresh my memory...it is getting overloaded with so much material! Unfortunately, I read this book about 15-20 yrs ago, so it is a wonder I do recall somethings I know will happen in the book. It must have left an indelible impression on me, don't you agree? I just heard on a interview, show an interviewer stating that he read somewhere 'that if one connect emotionally with something, it stays in their mind forever'. I thought that was interesting and so true. These are the memories we retain.Quote:
I read it six months ago, so the story is still somewhat fresh in my mind. I'm reading it again and I only have about 60 or so pages left.
No problem! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dori
That's a compliment! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
I don't think so. It's said about Odincova's ages, about 28 or 29, and them much younger.Quote:
Later it does tell their age or Bazarov's, I believe. I think it was late 20's - maybe 28 or 9. I will look it up, but I don't have time presently.
Sorry, sorry! Of course I will wait! I waited for this for years, I can wait for another week.Quote:
I have not reached that part of the book yet, but feel it is eminent.
Bazarov, I can only speak for myself - I am now about half way through the book; might be a little slow for me for now, until Christmas is over...I am so busy...therefore, please have patience...or if not, go on without me.