If you study "Macbeth" thinking purely about fate, you will never know if you believe in it or not again. That play, coupled with some revelations on Old Testament authors has nearly killed my faith in Christianity.
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If you study "Macbeth" thinking purely about fate, you will never know if you believe in it or not again. That play, coupled with some revelations on Old Testament authors has nearly killed my faith in Christianity.
I wonder...why discussions such these tend to be related with Christianity..
Why's that? Macbeth's only a play, and if you consider yourself christian, you shouldn't care very much about the old testament anyway.Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
If you study "Macbeth" thinking purely about fate, you will never know if you believe in it or not again. That play, coupled with some revelations on Old Testament authors has nearly killed my faith in Christianity.
The questions about fate that the play poses are very real concerns, even if the play itself is a work of fiction.
And I'm not sure if I consider myself a Christian or not, but even if I do, the OT is very real and important. What I was talking about shaking my faith is the fact that the OT was written by PEOPLE, not God. Some of them were cool, but they all had specific agendas and biases. Oh well. Just somthing I've been thinking about.
People with divine inspiration, atleast that is what we are told. I was taught to pray for dissernment before reading the bible so that I might learn the true words of God.
I believe in fate, however it has nothing to do with believing in god or any religous idea whatesoever. Scientifically speaking we are in fact prisoners of a universe that is governed by rules. All the laws of physics prohibit us from actually making choices rather then just following a reaction.
It is like the idea of causality, action-reaction. We only react to the events around us and therfore are bound to our path with only the illusion of free will.
unless the only illusion is the illusion of free will . . .
then you're f.ucked.
Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
The questions about fate that the play poses are very real concerns, even if the play itself is a work of fiction.
And I'm not sure if I consider myself a Christian or not, but even if I do, the OT is very real and important. What I was talking about shaking my faith is the fact that the OT was written by PEOPLE, not God. Some of them were cool, but they all had specific agendas and biases. Oh well. Just somthing I've been thinking about.
Well I don't know Kik, I think books in the New T were also written by people (I hope I'm not wrong in this one)..I mean all books in the bible were all written by ordinary people who were ispired by the Holy Spirit. At least, that's what they taught me in sunday school.
Yes but you'll notice that the NT authors have a MUCH different view on most issues than the OT. Some denomonations even do away with the OT all together and say that the NT directly contradicts the teachings of the OT. I don't neccasarily believe that, but the attitudes of the people of the NT are MUCH different. That much is impossible not to notice. Also, if you happen to not believe in the trinity, than whats the holy spirit doing? He's not there. Thats another one of my problems. I go no trinity (much to the chagrin of my christian friends and family) so for me, there was no holy spirit to take over the epostles writing hands, or Moses's hands for that matter. Damn, I hardly even remember where I started. Oh yeah.Quote:
Originally posted by subterranean
Well I don't know Kik, I think books in the New T were also written by people (I hope I'm not wrong in this one)..I mean all books in the bible were all written by ordinary people who were ispired by the Holy Spirit. At least, that's what they taught me in sunday school.
The OT writers sound psychotically zealous in some writings. Issueing out death warrents for eating meat on Friday, strikeing people dead for looking directly at the ark of the covonant, ect. If some of the things that they write can be so skewed to follow there agenda of control on the people of Isreal, what else was skewed?
I posted an account of 9/11 as it may have been written about by an OT author. I'll try to find it to add more clarity to what I'm trying to say
Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
And in the first year of the reign of George Bush, son of George Bush, son of George Bush, it came to pass that his daughters were caught drinking underage. They were found to be, in thy mercy, the bearers of false identification cards. So The Lord, in his wrath, finding The United States to be evil in his sight, sent 3 fully fueled jets to be the harbingers of doom upon the major economic strongholds within thy realm.
See, it makes you wonder if the reasons that biblical authors gave for things happening were the real reasons that they happened. Thats what has been shaking my faith.
I agree with Yeroptok. Awhile back there seemed to be a lot of coincidences going on around me and it lead me to wonder why that was, each incident was seemingly unrelated to the others, then I broadened it to a wider view, how come two people invented the light bulb at roughly the same time, why was fire discovered when it was, why not sooner? later? It lead me to think that fate had something to do with it, and it makes sense that the laws of nature and physics governs how and why things happen, scientifically speaking of course.
an anomaly exists in every system . . . no theory is true one-hundred percent. the hope of escape always exists, even from your own fate.
hehe, but you'll only find yourself bound to some other fate.
The reason the NT writers have such a different perspective is because Jesus introduced a new order. Neither seem to agree with fate. I personally don't, I think it's a matter of my choices and others around me, I hope so anyway! Even so if you read stuff like Macbeth and Sophocles' Oedipus Rex it really makes you question your beliefs. Some stuff is beyond controll to us, but that does not make it fate. REally confusing issue!!!
Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
Yes but you'll notice that the NT authors have a MUCH different view on most issues than the OT. Some denomonations even do away with the OT all together and say that the NT directly contradicts the teachings of the OT. I don't neccasarily believe that, but the attitudes of the people of the NT are MUCH different. That much is impossible not to notice. Also, if you happen to not believe in the trinity, than whats the holy spirit doing? He's not there. Thats another one of my problems. I go no trinity (much to the chagrin of my christian friends and family) so for me, there was no holy spirit to take over the epostles writing hands, or Moses's hands for that matter. Damn, I hardly even remember where I started. Oh yeah.
The OT writers sound psychotically zealous in some writings. Issueing out death warrents for eating meat on Friday, strikeing people dead for looking directly at the ark of the covonant, ect. If some of the things that they write can be so skewed to follow there agenda of control on the people of Isreal, what else was skewed?
I posted an account of 9/11 as it may have been written about by an OT author. I'll try to find it to add more clarity to what I'm trying to say
I see your point about the two things, and isn't why that the NT is also called the Bible (means GOOD News)? Cause in the OT most of the writings are dominated by laws and punishments, and too much obligations. On the other hand, the NT was written in the spirit of love, mercy, and things like that . The laws and obligations are there but they are delivered in a softer way. I don't really see the contradiction between the laws in OT and NT, it's merely because the condition, cause NT was written after Jesus came and His foundation of teaching is love..
(IMO)
I agree. The OT has a different purpose and a different emphasis than the NT. The laws aren't different just some of the rules were no longer necessary, besides which people were getting so caught up with rules they forgot God! The Holy Spirit merely inspired in a different way.Quote:
Originally posted by subterranean
I see your point about the two things, and isn't why that the NT is also called the Bible (means GOOD News)? Cause in the OT most of the writings are dominated by laws and punishments, and too much obligations. On the other hand, the NT was written in the spirit of love, mercy, and things like that . The laws and obligations are there but they are delivered in a softer way. I don't really see the contradiction between the laws in OT and NT, it's merely because the condition, cause NT was written after Jesus came and His foundation of teaching is love..
(IMO)