The keyboard has been drinking, not me... :eek:
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The keyboard has been drinking, not me... :eek:
Denial?
Nope. I won't deny I don't know the bible...
The dipsomaniacal display, implied by your sig.
But, I like it.
<oh man! has to dig up dictionary.com link>
You mean in regards to penchant for drunk people to talk or yell loudly? :p ... or the dipsy lalala characters?
Quote:
Originally posted by sloegin
The dipsomaniacal display, implied by your sig.
The, abnormal and insatiable craving for alcohol.
Oh sh*t, I was talking about myself. Opps.
It can refer to you, if you so desire.
If the shoe fits.....
How degenerative this became!
Ok, I know some people have found our discussion boring and off the topic of alcohol, but I still want to make this point clearer.
Matthew 19:8-9
Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
I've used the NIV because it's easier for the modern person to understand. I know that the KJV uses the word "fornication" in place of "marital unfaithfulness", but it's easier with these two verses to see why they mean the same thing.
The Law that Moses gave about divorce was set for the pre-marriage thing, if she wasn't a virgin, he had a right to divorce her. So why would Jesus restate that law in verse 9? His words denote a change in decree, not a restatement.
Don't inherently know "why" Jesus would say anything... but I do know that I would rather ask HIM why, than someone else. I can only tell you what I feel/believe. And I feel/believe that Jesus would prefer people to stay married at all costs, but when the cost is too great, then the decision is permanent. If you divorce someone, then you have cast the first stone, so to speak. And as I said, Jesus regarded looking on another with lust in the heart every bit as sinful as extra-marital sex in the flesh. If you can cut off someone's avenue to repentance and reconciliation, you stand in judgment of them. If you do not forgive others, your Heavenly Father will not forgive you.
An unfaithful spouse cannot be a believing spouse. It is a complete contradiction. Therefore, if the unbelieving spouse desires to dwell with you, don't seek to be loosed. But if you do leave, Christ commands you to remain single.
As for keeping marriage sacred: If anyone searches their heart, they will know that they could have been more loving, could have been more giving, could have taken better care of themself and their partner ... and so bears some responsibility for any condition which impinges on the marriage - including infidelity. Only in the case of undisclosed premarital situations can a person can be truly said to bear no fault. Everything that comes after marriage is committed by two joint-heirs of salavation, and we have responsibility for one another.
It is the undisclosed fornication that Jesus referred to when saying that such reasons for break-up did not result in adultery conditions. Because in the eyes of God, and man, there was no marriage which was legally or morally entered into. Every prospective spouse has a right to know who they are marrying, inside and out.
If the Spirit has not taught someone the first principles of walking in faith (forgiveness), and they need justification in the written word to do what you want to do they will find it. Jesus, however, did not "let people off", but said very clearly if you do not forgive all of your brother's (or wife's or husband's... or are you going to say I am speculating, that he said "brother" so that is where it ends?!) trespasses, your Heavenly Father will not forgive you.
I completly agree with Shea. mrbillbenson you are oh so very wrong.
as for this comment...
I agree.....unless you are a christian and want to follow the bible.Quote:
Moderation...f*ck moderation.
Jonus
Oh so very wrong ... about everything? OK.
Maybe not everything but everything you've said about biblical divorce.Quote:
Oh so very wrong ... about everything? OK.
Jonus
Mr. Bill, I'm going to give you two personal examples.
First, my stepfather. His first wife left him after he became a christian. He didn't ask for a divorce, she did. He married again to a woman who did a personality change after the vows. She also did the divorcing, not him. Then he met my mother. He showed her truth in the Bible, she was baptized and then they were married and have been happily so for 11 years now. They even survived quitting smoking together. I would not now be a christian if she hadn't met him.
Second story: There is a very sweet young woman who attends our congregation. She was raised in the church, her father is an elder at a congregation in Texas. She is expecting her first baby in about two weeks, and after the birth, she will move back to Texas to be with her family, without her husband. To everyone's very unexpected surprise, he decided to have an affair. He was always a very nice pleasant person, a little on the quiet side, but nobody expected his actions at all. Our elders and other members of the congregation did their best to talk with him, but he continued to press for a divorce, not her. But because of his actions, and the scriptures I've listed, if she wishes in the future, she will be able to marry again and not violate the scriptures.
The christian should do everything they can to keep a marriage whole. But if the other person is obviously not going to comply, then they are not bound to the marriage any longer. If you think about it, it makes better sense for the christian parent to find a christian spouse than to try and raise children to be christians in a home where one spouse is not faithful.