Der Faust

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Originally Posted by mono

Faust's beauty seems in a constant progression, beginning as rather tainted, desiring ultimate knowledge, but evolving into a transcendent and forgiving wisdom.

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Thank you for your definition, Mono! :thumbs_up

I find the character of Faust irritating and yet... there is a kind of "beauty" within him that makes him redeemable, as you mentioned. :nod:

Thank you! :thumbs_up

Where do you think the name Mephistopheles come from? :confused: I've heard it comes from Greek and Hebrew, and yet, is that true? It seems like Goethe wants to keep the origins of the name mysterious, but why? :confused:

Extract from an article:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9136/faust8qj.jpg
[Source: JSTOR]

Oh, and to what extent do you think Mephistopheles is the externalization of evil within Faust's self?

Yes, that is a very interesting question, i couldnt find an answer yet.
thank you vers much for you booklist! i printed it and will write the books on my booklist, because i am very much interested in english literature.
i would be very happy, if you could give me some more boot titles :D
yes, you are completely right, heinrich böll is a fantastic writer. maybe you could like this books from him too
1. heirich böll. das brot der frühen jahre
2. heinrich böll. ansichten eines clowns
3. heinrich böll. gruppenbild mit dame
buddenbrooks

Oops, Kafka, I apologize I did not see your questions earlier. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Kafka

Where do you think the name Mephistopheles come from? :confused: I've heard it comes from Greek and Hebrew, and yet, is that true? It seems like Goethe wants to keep the origins of the name mysterious, but why? :confused:

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I have never quite pondered this question, but definitely praise it. I did a bit of research, and found this site, which provides some information of the origin of the name, Mephistopheles. Apparently in some ancient Greek-Mesopotamian literature and beliefs, the name has connection with a term meaning "he who does not love light."

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Originally Posted by Kafka

Oh, and to what extent do you think Mephistopheles is the externalization of evil within Faust's self?

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Hmmm, good question. I think this question could really delve into some deep philosophical concepts, regarding whether evil, to its true definition, seems instrinsic and inherent, or, in comparison, if evil seems more external, influencing an individual. The answer of this question may rely partially or completely in a person's faith, religion, spiritual beliefs, etc.
In more of the thought of Goethe (though the fear of external evil, such as Satan, seemed very popular), I would like to claim that Mephistopheles seems a complete externalization of Faust; to an extent, they even seem somewhat alike, as Mephistopheles seems always to desire to reflect Faust, further gaining his want to grant wishes for his own benefit. Mephistopheles, of course, existed as his own character, but all of his actions seemed entirely to revolve around the desires and thoughts of Faust to lure him - actions, of which, would eventually lead Faust to much regret. Soon reciprocating the evil of Mephistopheles, who only fed of Faust's desires, Faust at last realizes the inherent evil, as if entirely projected to his senses, and rebels toward what appeared opposite - goodness.
Though, as I said, during Goethe time, and even in some contemporary beliefs, evil seems, in a way, produced and engendered absolutely and purely from one being - primarily Satan, Devil, or whichever term. Goethe, I believe, desired to emphasize the more internal, introspective aspects of evil, and its possible outer reflection to an extreme (to the point that a magical character appears - "he who does not love light"). In the philosophy of Thomas Hobbes, who believed the three primary motives of humankind identified as greed, envy, and fear, this distinctly demonstrates the motives of Faust; knowledge does not necessarily have to seem intrinsically evil, but Faust's immense desire (greed) and jealousy of others who have what he calls "superior" knowledge (envy) over-rules his prudence (fear) when offered the chance to own such knowledge.

Nice posts. Remember that Goethe wrote in the context of the philosophical scholarship of his day: Lessing, Leibnicht, Kant, Hegel, a close relationship with Schiller. Amazing and underappreciated period in intellectual history. Understanding the period and the debates where Goethe himself was involved aids in studying Faust and seeing Goethe's intent here and there. Recommend this Goethe biography as the best biography that exists (about anyone), to aid in understanding:

http://www.amazon.com/Goethe-Poet-Poetry-Desire-1749-1790/dp/0192829815/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235422683&sr=1-4

and Walter Arndt Norton Critical Edition of Faust for English as all other translations pale in comparison.

http://www.amazon.com/Faust-Tragedy-Norton-Critical-Editions/dp/0393972828/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235423039&sr=1-1

There are several other translations that get good reviews from critics. Reading a few pages of several others, I rather like the "Wordsworth Classics of World Literature" version in a *modern* translation by John Williams. Anyone read this all the way through? What do you think?