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hello,
am new here but i wanted to say this..
from my readings i know that all the prophets carried one message which is to worship the Lord.. the true God..
Moses was not a fake,, Jesus was not a fake or a God...Mohammed was not a fake coz he was mentiond in the Bible itself..
please search and talk wisely :thumbs_up
bliss u all
Tell you something dear friends,
Christianity came after Judaism, can I say that Judaism is the original and Christianity is a copy or a fake????
No indeed not… the same thing with the Quran. From my readings, I never thought it would be a copy of any book but rather a summery and correction to the wrongs of the old books.
Come think with me a bit :confused: :
in the New Testament it is stated that Jesus taught us to pray to God as follows:
“Our father in heaven , hallowed by your name, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven”
( Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9 – 10 )
would someone tell me please who is his father, since I know that he is the son of Virgin Mary ??
and how could a man creates another man ?? does it mean I, the complicated soul and blood, was created by a man like me ????
hay ,,, some sense dude…!!
Actually , if you read the Bible carefully , you will find the new Prophet named “Ahmed” is mentioned !!!
So, would there be a mentioned prophet of a religion we did not hear about??? And if we heard about him, why the hell we didn’t follow him ??
And let me give you a tip , that Mohamed was illiterate ,would someone tell me how could he make up such book as the Quran if it was not from God himself ???
I say that coz I had an English copy which I read carefully with wonder and found that though Quran is not a book of science. However, many scientific facts that are expressed in an extremely concise and profound manner in its verses have only been discovered with the technology of the 20th century !!!!.
These facts could not have been known at the time of the Quran's revelation in the 7th century, and this is still more proof that the Quran is the word of God .
.. by the way ,I love reading .. Do like me..and read different GOOD books before giving an opinion … !
I didnt know this, where is he mentioned? and in which version King James/ International/ Good News etc. I tried searching the KIng James version available on the main site and it came up with no results.Quote:
Originally Posted by falling*moon
Ok "Falling moon" if you say:
Then you have to back up your statement with some proof dont you??same way you did when u mentioned the followingQuote:
Actually , if you read the Bible carefully , you will find the new Prophet named “Ahmed” is mentioned !!!
Well if the word and the name "Ahmed" is truly truly mentioned in each and every copy of the Bible then i would say all Christians and Jews would be absolutely-in the sweetest sense-"unwise" and "idiotic" not to convert.Quote:
in the New Testament it is stated that Jesus taught us to pray to God as follows:
“Our father in heaven , hallowed by your name, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” ( Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9 – 10 )
But then if you read carefully which i doubt you have, you will not find the mention of the coming of anyone else but the Christ. That you will find in the Old testament in dozens of examples (almost 300 prophecies about the coming of Christ)
Isaiah 7:14
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you [c] a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and [d] will call him Immanuel."
Immanuel means Immanuel means "God with us"
Matthew 1:18(New testament)
"This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit."
Luke 1:26-35 (New testament)
26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
I think this is something acknowledged by Islam as well..
There is another prophecy about the location of the Christ's birth (Bethlehem)
Micah 5:2(Old Testament)
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times."
Mathew 2:1 -new testament says:
"After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi[a] from the east came to Jerusalem"
These are a few examples..Prophecies were fulfilled..i dont know guys..comment!every one has the right to think and search..
Please give me that chapter and verse that mentions the coming of a prophet called Ahmed..
Peace
Keep up the participation!!
mmmmmmmmmll
"Christians believe in Moses and the Old Testament (torah), but jews believe in the old testament found in the christian bible but don't believe neither in the new testament nor the Qur'an (correct me anyone if im wrong here)."
If Christians believe in Moses and the Old Testament, why do some Christians say that the New TEstament and the coming of Jesus erased what was before? Why do they claim that Jesus overruled the Law of Moses? If you say they do not, why is it then that Christians do not circumsize their sons when that is a requirement that God imposed on Moses and it is in the Old Testament? This is just one example, but there are many many more.
No no dear Amra; it is totally the opposite of what you're saying. Whoever tells you that Jesus "overruled or erased" the law is mistaken and hasn't read the Bible carefully; if not at all..
In Matthew 5:17 [The Fulfillment of the Law]
Jesus says:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Also in the famous Parable of the Good Samaritan: Luke 10:25-27
It is written
"25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Jesus is telling people to apply the continuation to the laws of Moses stated in Deuteronomy 6:5:
"Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."
and also
Leviticus 19:18
" 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."
Tell your friends then..
What's different about the new testament is that God no longer needs to teach people like babies (man had grown in spirituality and can now comprehend); back at the time of Moses God was still teaching people.He took humanity step by step. So He started off with those laws and whoever breaks them was punished. But now after Jesus came, and men have become face to face with God, known Him; man was taught to love and from here, naturally all laws of Moses will be kept and no one would want to break them. NOt because they fear punishment but because they love God and they've seen Him.
P.S: sort of wishful thinking, we end breaking the laws but if we really love God we regret making mistakes, we repent and try harder not to fall the next time
Peace..
and oh! circumcision is not part of the law of Moses (The ten commandments stated in Deut 5)...The first people who beleived in the existence of God were the Jews, God then always gave them signs and prophets to reassure them that He is with them; to keep them standing firm in their faith.
He wanted them to see themselves as seperate from other people. To set the difference between beleivers and non beleivers and to show them the significance of that. He thus asked the people of Israel to circumcise every born male. It is a contract God signed with His people; a way to remind them that they should keep their faith and that in Him they beleive.
It is written:
Passage Genesis 17:10:
10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised.
Passage Genesis 17:14:
14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
This is a sort of diobedience; it is also a test He'd put His people through..
Muslims have inherited this tradition. Because They also beleive in Moses and his book (although they do not beleive in the current version of the Torah).
I don't know if it is me, but your post seems contradictory. If Christians accept the Old Testament, why don't they circumsize their sons? That is a simple question. Unless acceptance means something else. Does acceptance mean just accepting the Old Testament as truth, but something that is outdated? Or does it mean that Jesus brought something new that replaced the Old Testament?
Thank you
Amra, you will find the answer in chapters ten and eleven of the Acts of the Apostles.
Simply, Christians believe that Christ is the saviour of the world, and that it is more important to accept and proclaim this than to adhere to any ritual or formality.
In effect, this means that certain Hebrew/Jewish practices are (to Christians) superseded. For instance - in Leviticus there are several chapters on animal sacrifices. All these are obsolete, to Christians, because Jesus is himself the sacrifice that replaces all others, for ever.
Another example is that Leviticus forbids wine or similar drink from being brought into the tabernacle of the congregation. (Quite right of course, as a prohibition on being drunk in a holy place.) For most Christians, however, wine is taken (in a symbolic quantity only) in the main Christian ritual, because Jesus commanded its use.
Circumcision, as Jewels83 quoted, was/is a sign of the covenant between God and the descendants of Abraham. To Christians, however, Jesus remedies the separation between mankind and God that was caused by Adam - that is the whole of mankind, not just the descendants of Abraham - so circumcision or uncircumcision is not relevant to Christians.
Well then, Jesus did replace the Old Testament, and because of his coming you state that some or all of the Old Testament is superseded by the New Testament. Am I right or wrong in this? However, this is where my confusion starts. If Jesus himself said that he didn't come to change the Law, why did people then find it necessary to do just that? If you say you accept the Old Testament, how is that acceptance manifested?
Amra, I think that you are correct if you say that some or all of the Old Testament is superseded by the New. Christian belief stands or falls by what is written in the New Testament, and the Old Testament provides the historical, moral and theological background out of which Christianity emerges.
However, the more complex view is the the books of the Law, and the teaching of the Prophets of the Old Testament are only superseded in the sense that they are fulfilled in Jesus.
In one sense, Jesus did not change the Law at all, because a person following the Law as strictly as any Jew does today could still be a Christian. Christianity, however, is not defined by the Law. If Jesus said that he did not come to change the Law, he also showed that the Law should be interpreted in the light of God's love. "The Sabbath," he reminded us, "was made for man." When faced with a crowd about to carry out the Law of stoning an adulteress, he said "The man who has never done wrong can throw the first stone."
I gave the example that animal sacrifice is no longer necessary. It could be argued that prior to the crucifixion of Jesus, animal sacrifices were a means of atoning for sin, or a valid symbol of repentance, or a practical statement that evil must be paid for in suffering. Maybe they are still, but they are not a requirement because Jesus' sacrifice is the one complete sacrifice for all sins, past and future.
St Paul writes, more or less, that following the law may keep a person from doing wrong, but it will not ensure that a person does right. Understanding the meaning of Christ's sacrifice (crucifixion) and triumph (resurrection) will, on the other hand, compel a person to act rightly and lovingly towards God and man.
The most brutal way of putting it is that Christians accept as much of the Old Testament as seems useful or relevant, and, for practical purposes, ignore the rest. For most Christians, the Old Testament is accepted only in the light of the New. Most of Christian teaching is grounded in the ideas and mythology of the Old Testament, and can most easily be explained in those terms.
Actually, the important part of Christian teaching can be explained in three or four sentences. From the very beginning, mankind set the barrier of sin between man and God. The books of Law list lots of sins, and describe ways in which individuals can try to reduce the barrier caused by each sin. Jesus destroys the barrier completely. Because the barrier of sin has been destroyed, we can, and must, all get on with loving each other and God.
Concentrate on living righteously. Study texts as long as they help you to do that, but do not let them distress you.
The "law" that Jesus has been mentioning is the 10 commandements (or so i've been told by a couple of priests but i see Whifflingpin pointing at something else when talks about "law"). circumcision was not part of those commandements, but it was a "contract" or sort of a "request" God has asked His people to do at that time. And i guess i explained its significance more thoroughly in the previous post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amra
Plus the main reason why the Old testament is accepted and acknowledged and is even a part of Christian beleif, is that The Old testament is the beginning of the "story" of God with man. Christians can not overrule that from history; the History of their religion. It's the History of God's people.
As for the old practices and traditions, they were simply guidelines God had provided His people with. Jews back then were quite primitive and ignorant about many matters such as hygiene, the way they should eat etc.and so God showed them the way to have a cleaner, healthier lifestyle that's all but they were not laws (not part of the 10 commandements which are timeless); they were just the right way of doing things back then..
plus as i said, it was God testing their obedience; they had failed God many times before (when Moses when up the mountain, after he came back he found the people worshiping cows and forgetting about God);
God as i said before,had treated His very first people like we do babies (we do it the hard way at first; like when a child wants to touch the hot cup of tea, we keep on telling them 'NO!! it is hot', but the kid doent have any idea what hot is, the kid ends up touching the cup, getting a little burnt and then never again does he touch it).. You kow what i mean?i dont know if you get it..tell me..
I don't know if the Jews are still practicing other traditons apart from the circumcision. But i think that as a people whose beleive has stopped before the new testament,i think that they might be applying their religion word by word; just the way God had taught them in the Old testament. their faith tells them that God's story with man stops here; they are thus stuck in phase one. I remember reading aboutthe Pharisees who were present at the time of Jesus and who were very strict about applying their book meticulously[correct me if i'm wrong in that part].
Amra I hope i dont sound as confusing as before...
Ok, all i can see now is how we all differ in explaining the Bible or any other book for that matter. I guess it is quite relative, the way we view "religion". I dontthink there is one and only one reason why in the world Christians do not practice the Old testament traditions, although you quite make sense Whifflingpin...
How is circumcision spiritual? If you circumcise your child then that means that you believe in God? Circumcision was more of a traditional thing rather than a spiritual thing, or atleast that is how I percieve it. As Whifflingpin said, it is just like the animal sacrifice, it is not necesary certainly not in our days anymore.
Another thing is, that the gentiles (non-jews) who wanted to believe in Christianity didn't have to get circumsized to become christians and truly believe in God. It is not restricted to circumcision to show your belief in God after all. The circumcision was more of a jewish thing (jewish as in religion but more as a people).