I think this is where your statement is flawed. A person who is genuinely sorry for something is not very likely to repeat it. Maybe he was once purposefully bad, and he was not sorry, then he did lots of bad things. If he ever became genuinely sorry, his bad things would drastically reduce in quantity.Quote:
Originally Posted by islandclimber
you forget the power of addiction... and I'm not just referring to people who do lots of bad things, but even one terrible thing, you can be sorry for doing it, but who has the right to forgive you? Christ? God? That idea is absurd... that Christ can forgive for others.... there can't be harmony in the universe with a creator god, with heaven, with hell, with a god forgiving for others.. if there is I want nothing to do with it...Quote:
Originally Posted by dzebra
Oh, I read your first post with a different twist than I think you intended. I think I understand it better now that I read your second one.
When God forgives people, it's for the offenses that people do against God himself. If I murder someone, it's not only an offense to the person I murdered, it's an offense to God. God forgives me for offending him. The other person must also forgive in order for me to be fully forgiven from all angles. I would need to be reconciled both to God and to that person I murdered (or his friends and relatives, since he'd be dead).
sounds interesting... yes I agree with you here if you think there is some kind of superhuman god, that exists in this universe... that forgives people... but I don't think that... I think one needs to forgive oneself, for each one of us, is part of you could call it the infinite godhead... like in buddhism... only in forgiving ourselves can we truly find harmony, and in forgiving ourselves we then show true remorse, for we must have realized the terrible thing we did, and can be forgiven by others... though forgiving oneself, if one truly is sorry is an almost impossible thing... what do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by dzebra
cheers
I agree that forgiving oneself is very tough. In my experience, that only way I can forgive myself for things is only after everyone else involved has already forgiven me. I don't know if that's the way it goes with everybody, but it's definitely extremely difficult to forgive oneself. If others have not forgiven, then forgiving oneself is even closer to impossible.
I agree forgiving is hard to do but you do not always need another's forgiveness before you can forgive yourself. I had to forgive someone whom did an unforgivable act against me but I did not forgive for him but for myself. In order for there to be balance in life we are all made up of good or evil and we choose which path to take. I believe the same in my Creator too.
Where are sins? Inside or without?
I just now read a story of two monks, one asked for salvation or something similar, of his sins, and the other said, bring your sins to me and I will absolve you. After a while, the first monk said his sins were unattainable to him, and the second monk said he'd finished enlightening him.
Isn't sin really in the eye of the beholder? What I consider sinful is not what the Catholic church believe's to be sinful or most people for that fact. I just know that I there is light and dark within me and I chose to walk on the light side.
yes, this is exactly it... put so concisely... one can only forgive oneself.. there is no external forgiveness... in forgiving oneself if it is truly meant, one is forgiven by everything, for we all part of the same whole, we are all god, and god is all of us... therefore self forgiveness is the only true forgiveness...Quote:
Originally Posted by NikolaiI
only through it can we be at peace and find harmony in the universe, for as Christ said, echoing Siddhartha before him, "the kingdom of god is within you"....
Nikolai, what is this story? where did you read it?
cheers
Peace!
According to holy Quran:
He is Allah, the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heaven and in the earth glorifies Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise. [ chapter 59, verse 25 ]
and one of His name is Al-Quddus (the Holy One) given in verse 24.
regards.
The Quran teaches that by virtue of His excellences:
1- God is One, without associate.
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2- He suffers from no defect.
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3- He comprehends all good qualities and manifests all holy powers.
4- He is the Originator of all creation and is the fountain-head of all grace.
God has nothing to do with goodness and badness. It is nature that does everything.
God alway beyond good and evil.
"It is nature that does everything"
Is nature a "god" to you? What religious texts (if any) do you use in making this definition?
"Is nature a "god" to you? What religious texts (if any) do you use in making this definition?"
Since when were religious "texts" required to have a belief?
to quote tom waits... 'there ain't no devil, it's only God when he is drunk.'
on one side we have this great point.. if God is all, than God made sin, which means God is bad... thus, God is satan. following that line of reason we could very easily be some wet dream of some deified kid who still wets the bed. Since mankind is not separate from Deity, but everything is enclosed in thus said deity, than we could very easily be some detailed daydream.
however, on the other hand, if God made it, and is outside of it, yet interacts with it, this could pose the option that the antithesis of what God wills being done could exist without God being a part of it.
thus God is not sin/satan....
but what do i know, follow everyone else’s advise.... cause it seemed to me that ALL THEIR ANSWERS LEAD TO THIS SATAN=GOD DIETY!!!
Bravo!
p.s. this 'nature' talk is so humorous. i could 'guess' at the nature of God... even follow the bible... but is it not a bit presumptuous to know what God's 'Nature' is... isn't that what the Pharisees did?