Symptom: Sudden loss of memory!
Diagnosis: Selective amnesia!
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Symptom: Sudden loss of memory!
Diagnosis: Selective amnesia!
Yanni,
You may be one of the most confused and confusing individuals who has ever posted on the internet.
''Sudden loss of memory'' and ''selective amnesia'' on what, precisely ??
LOL :crash:
Here is something easy to remember - it may help more quickly than almost anything else ! But we won't go too fast (LOL)
BWV 8/1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKMRN...eature=related
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanni
"Memory loss" symptoms from your part were evident throughout our conversation, Robert, but a "selective" amnesia could not be diagnosed with certainty as, in parallel, an apparent indifference to the need of-or existence even of-a detailed timeline was also endemic, as also your systematic refusal to name sources for obviously wrong statements/info supplied by you in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicology
An exception was your last blunder, Munnich, where you do name your source (Wikipedia) to then draw another notoriously wrong conclusion (that he was the same as my previous "Monsieur Munchausen"), in full contradiction to your own source and, when asked to provide another source to support your claim or at least an apology, you select to refuse answering alltogether.
Let me tell you that the specific 1758 Munchausen is very relevant to our Bach/Handel/Amyand/Cocchi/Koch story and, should you change your mind and wish really to assist in this research, by all means, do answer previous questions (now limited to the Munchausen to West correspondence late 1758), ie
Would you 'care to disclose' Lady-Frances-father's name?
and
Would that be THE famous baron Munchausen himself, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_M%C3%BCnchhausen...
...the "Monsieur Munchausen", trusted by the Hanoverian English King in 1757 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/57761384...f-Chesterfield, p.5, "our friend Munchausen", p.11, who "embarked yesterday for Prince Ferdinand's army" (21st Sept 1758 "Munchausen"*** leaves England for Braunsweig) p34-35?
If so, kindly advise who this "West" was and do provide the exact 1758 dates, contents and sender's address for re letters!
...and care to name your "sources" as well!
OR
at least explain yourself!
Ta-ta!
Yanni,
I cannot teach you how to think. But if you insist on straying in to quicksand I tire of dragging you out. Forget the nonsense of 'amensia' because I have not forgotten how you claim to be one moment interested in reality and are the next so muddled that you do not see your track record of going round in circles.
My source on Munnich was one of a hundred easily accessible to you. And which you would do well to read. But what I did NOT say (and what tires me to repeat) is that the cardboard character of Baron von Munchausen was LATER invented upon him. Which is a fact you seem ignorant about. The latter was invented before 1785, after Munnich was already dead for decades. Thus, I do NOT, have NOT, and never would say they were the same. Since one was a real person and the other was a fictional character. Am I going too fast for you ?
You now tell us that Baron Von Munchausen (fictional character) was 'very relevant to the Bach/Handel/Amyand/Cocchi/Koch story, although here I must move in to capital letters to emphasise the point already made -
THESE MEN WERE ALL (EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM) DEAD LONG BEFORE THE FICTIONAL CHARACTER OF BARON VON MUNCHAUSEN WAS EVER INVENTED.
Am I going too fast for you ??
If not, please write again, because there is nothing in this for our conversation. And nothing for anyone who spends the time and effort reading it.
Regards
Gee, thanks for the lessons on Baron Munchausen's true identity, Robert!
Please continue teaching me as well on the identity of his wife (Frances Compton,later Amyand), her full family name, and on the identity and duties of his 1758 correspondent, only mentioned as 'West" in your previous.
Ta!
Sorry, but the subject is of no interest to me. If you wish to tell us why your never ending family history research has relevance it might help. I think your energies are best spent justifying your posts so far. But that's only my view.
Verse for the Day -
''But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain''.
(Titus 3.9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eWK0...eature=related
BWV 249
Adagio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgQz8...eature=related
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanni
So, when you first presented in this here forum your '1758 Munchausen to West' find, you did it because it was irrelevant and not of interest to you?
Wow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicology
If I present information on this thread it is because I consider it relevant to its title. Not because I wish to go off on a tangent. Obscurantism is not my forte.
This thread (as I must again point out) is on the 'puzzle' of the so-called 'Bach variations' and it seems you are unable to focus upon it. Let alone describe what is really 'puzzling' about it. And since this sort of situation is typical I find myself having to continually remind you of it. Munchausen is, I assure you, a story character based on a man who really existed but who had died decades before Baron von Munchausen became popular fiction. If you agree with this fact we can avoid dozens of useless exchanges on other issues.
(The best conversations are those which consist of agreement on what is actually being discussed, and progress is based on the fact of that agreement. Without which we are soon spinning round in a 'washing machine' without any issue related to the thread itself ever being resolved).
I am working on an article at the moment which deals with the documented musical 'genius' of Mozart, from records of a concert given in Mantua, Italy, on 16th January 1770. The 'genius' itself being criticised. But what relevance has that to this thread ? None, except you want me to discuss issues of equal irrelevance. Which I have already learned lead nowhere.
You should open new threads on a particular subject if you consider them worthy of specific discussion and not subject us to the turgid machinations of your diversionary obscurantism. Whose relevance is never provided.
Music, art, literature and culture came under increasing control during the 17th and 18th century from within by foreign elements which inflitrated and took it over in western Europe. Through bloodlines and by means of fraternal control. That is the significance of what I have posted here on Munnich. We might call it a third religion, one of occultist origin, since it is neither Christian nor Jewish. And that fact is one you seem wholly unable to accept. But the puzzle you refer to in this thread is supposed to be the subject of this thread. And it appears to be going nowhere.
JS Bach
Sonata for Violin and Basso Continuo
BWV 1023
First Movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14SB1...eature=related
Regards
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanni
Thanks, Robert,
That's the answer a qualified C.R.A.P* member could only give, regretting his last monumental blunder to reveal enough details on HM's agent 'Munchausen'- close associate of King George II and 1758 correspondent of James West**,re arranging financing for Britain's war effort via Messrs George Amyand&Buckner of Hamburg -for yourstruly to then be able to clearly identify him as King George's trusted advisor, Claudius Amyand jr (who never really functioned as a librarian of the Cottonian), aka Frederick de Nicolay etc.
Claudius Amyand Jr was a son of Dr Claudius Amyand, also known, in his turn, as G.F.Handel/J.S.Bach/Dr Antonio Cocchi/Gerhard van Swieten and, most propably, 'John Theophilus Desaguliers' as well, Grand Master, 1719 and later too, of the Grand Lodge of England***, close associate of I.Newton and teacher of B.Franklin (in magnetism, electricity etc.)
More to follow, early next year, Dumbo allowing!
BTW Robert: Your selective amnesia hinders you in recalling what was made quite clear, early in this thread, that the subject is "Bach and Handel were the same person".
Happy New Year all!
*"Coordinated Research Association Producers"
**J.W. of Alscott Park, Secretary to the Treasury May 1746-Nov 1756 and July 1757 to May 1762. Treasurer 1767-1768.
***Officialy founded on St. John the Baptist's day, 24 June 1717, in London.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicology
Gentlemen,
I forgot to drop in wish both of you a Merry Christmas, so here's to hoping it was a good one.
Now I shall wish you a happy and prosperous new year.
Santa was pretty good to me this year. For example, he dropped off a new Pre amp for my turntable. Now I can enjoy the wonderful music captured on dozens of vinyl albums, most of which belonged to my parents.
As a matter of fact, I am listening to Bach's "Cantata BWV 199" and Cantata BWV 209"; Maria Stader soprano w/ Koln soloists ensemble while simultaneously perusing the sheet music to Handel's Messiah.
Keep up the good work and again happy new year!
Your favorite fan,
Gilliatt
Thanks and compliments for your-surprising revealing or rather 'conclusive'- musical choices, Gilliat:
A previously 'musicaly suppressed' (BWV199) young 'Bach', after 'seeing the light' in Rome and Venice, is invited (Dec 1709) by the brit embassador and 'Handel's' later friend , Charles Edward Montagu, 1st Duke of Manchester ,to perform in London, returns home to Ansbach (in 'Handel's' Saxe-Weissenfels and near 'Kant's' Erlangen) and is getting ready to leave friends and family behind to cross the channel, propably on his first sea voyage! ('Handel' arrives London Dec 1710).
On BWV 209: See 'The Cantatas of J. S. Bach: With Their Librettos in German-English Parallel Text by Alfred Dürr' p924 (on "winds and waves")
Your find is important because, among others, confirms that 'Bach' wrote his own verse in italian, ie crosschecks his 'Rolli', Cocchi, 'Amyand'-allegedly from Livorno, personae (and leads to finally remove quotes '' from Antonio Cocchi).
Propably of relevance: Maison du Spectacle--La Bellone contains one of the most impressive Baroque facades in Brussels, built between 1697-1708 by the sculptor and architect of the Grand Place (Main Market Square), Jean Cosijn. The bust above the main door represents La Bellone, the God of War. The house is an information and support center for different cultural organizations like Association de la Promotion de Spectacles pour Enfants, Center Belge de l'instituit International de Theâtre, Maison de la Parole, Contredanse and many more.
Best wishes again to all!
Yanni speaks of the 'musically suppressed young Bach' when, in fact, he was around 30 years old already and the composer of several hundred works in virtually every form. Cantata 199 was one of these, having been written around 1714/15. But why let facts get in the way of a Yanni post ? (Cantata 199 dates from 4-5 years after GF Handel’s arrival in England and not before it). After Handel’s long period of being treated royally in Venice and Rome by cardinals and other spooks of the British Empire and having previously been recruited in Hamburg by feudal bankers of Italy (with British approval) and done nothing musical whatsoever in Germany. By why let facts get in the way of a Yanni post ?
As for the music of BWV 199 it comes from of one of the most unsuppressed musicians who ever lived. LOL !!!
J.S. Bach (1685-1750)
Aria
Wie Freudig Ist Mein Herz
Cantata
BWV 199
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leHba...eature=related
And, as for supreme talent - (while the elitists and their dopplegangers were wining and dining) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wcUT...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb7uu...eature=related
LOL !! Can music speak for itself ?
:crash:
May the New Year bring you all you wish for, Robert, including solid evidence for your 'Bach' (a known copyist of music while in Kothen etc*) preferably from sources other than Munchausen's or Guliver's.
http://www.let.rug.nl/Linguistics/di...ehlhausen.html
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Vocal/LostWork-2.htm
*Johann Sebastian Bach copied all six suites sometime between 1709 and 1714,[2] and was influenced by Dieupart's music, particularly in the famous English Suites.[1]
Yes Yanni,
Influence is a wonderful thing when it is creative. Best wishes for 2011.
O Mensch, bewein' dein' Sünde gross
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZeRK...eature=related
Your answer is out of context, Robert, and your suggested music and lyrics bring 'Bach's' own 'dreckohr' in mind.
To redeem yourself, kindly advise on the identity and functions of the 1761 owner of 'Tom's Coffee-house', also known as 'Literary Coffee House' in St. Martin's Lane (next to St Martin-in-the-Fields).
Ta-ta!